To be a real friend, or a real partner, you should be interested in what you can do for them. You sound primarily concerned with what other people can do for you. When you do discuss what you’d offer, it always sounds transactional, which is just another means of getting what you want.
I say “sounds” both times because I don’t know if that’s true or that’s just how you’re phrasing it. Either way,
We’ve discussed this before, but this isn’t a relationship. There are certainly asexual people out there looking for a practical partner, but I doubt many (if any) of them are muscle-bound. It’s totally cool to not want sex or any physical intimacy, but it’s not cool to seek a relationship without being up front about never wanting those things, and not that you would ever do this, but it would be ultra-uncool to engage in physical intimacy despite not wanting to, in order to placate someone else’s desires.
My wife is my best friend. I love hanging out with her, and I hang out with her far far more than I do anyone else, or ever have with anyone in my life, but if we never had sex and weren’t physically interested in each other, we would just be best friends, not partners.
Reads as “I don’t have feelings for anybody. There. Now no one can hurt me.”.
I did this for about 10 years starting in high school after my girlfriend died. It was not the first serious emotional injury I had sustained but I was going to make sure it was the last.
I had no idea who this person is so I did a search. Is it the prof. of Psychology from Northwestern?
I’m guessing so, because what you wrote seems to align with what I read here-
Based on that and what you wrote in your post, I think you completely misunderstood what he meant.
It’s bizarre how everything you write related to the people in your actual life tends to be about how you can gain something “physical” from someone else- like how they can help you move, how they can help further your career, etc. You rarely talk about how someone can help you emotionally.
I’m reasonably sure that Eli Finkel is talking about how you should have a variety of people who can help you talk about various things in your life as opposed to having just your spouse or a select few, not friends who can help you move or drive you somewhere…
FWIW- I completely agree, but that’s because I’m perpetually on the receiving end of someone who is incredibly emotionally insecure. It is tiring and I would like that person to stop talking to me repeatedly about how they feel about everything. It’s also why I keep my emotions and thoughts very close to my chest. I assume that other people would get tired listening to my baggage.
Honestly - this is just my opinion, and is not a slight at Anna (and I’m not talking about you like you’re not there either), Anna sounds more like she genuinely does not feel or understand intimate emotions towards the opposite sex. This does happen, and though it may be a disrupted-hormone issue, it’s okay to be that way. It just doesn’t read like a defensive action to prevent rejection, nor does it seem to be preceded by a traumatic event, like the death of a SO.
Maybe because he likes you? And maybe he doesn’t like you in a romantic way but as a friend? That’s possible isn’t it? Just because you’re maybe not as good at math or economics or whatever as he is doesn’t mean he should discard you and your company. People often have friends who are “different” than they are.
My best friend likes country music, works on a cattle ranch, loves fishing, and I like hip hop, “street“ culture (hip hop, skating, etc.) and history. He doesn’t keep me around because I go fishing with him (I don’t) and I don’t keep him around because he likes listening to my music (he doesn’t).
We like each other as the human beings we are. Not for being the exact same and being as good at everything as each other.
What are these? Becoming a professor?
Consider what else you may wish you have when you’re 50 years old. Maybe right now you think relationships and child rearing are icky and maybe you’ll feel that way for the rest of your life, but people’s feelings on those matters often change as they age…I’m not saying your opinions are wrong - they’re your opinions that you’re free to have and you may very well be right, but I’m just saying: be careful how much you value academia and personal success at the risk of not forming and building strong, healthy, valuable relationships with people who you simply like because of who they are, and not what they have to offer you.
Then you’re probably not missing much here.
I’m not trying to pile on - I always want to make that clear. I’m just so wise, so it’s hard not to share the wisdom I’ve accumulated in my vast 21 years.
Among the many, many wisdom I accumulated in my long 32 years of living is that people who have a very rigid notion of… anything and holds it close to their heart tend to suffer the most in life. Either because this very rigid notion makes it difficult to think outside of their own headspace, or they face a serious crisis when something seriously threatens or outright breaks this rigid notion.
Not to be mean Anna, but this is among the weirdest and straight up worst motivations for entering into any kind of relationships, I’ve ever seen. Let alone a romantic one.
A friend would help you move stuff but having a friend in order to use him to move stuff is manipulative.
Also since you like maths: How often do you find yourself in the situation that you need heavy stuff moved and on the other hand how much engagement, affection and work does building and maintaining a relationship take? If you’re purpose oriented, you would be better off just paying someone to carry a heavy object.
Brilliantly summed up how I read it as well.
Did Finkel speak about robots or humans? I’ve never befriended someone because he/ she has something to offer. Would this mean I should ditch friends who aren’t of any destinctive “use” for me? Or end relationships in which I give more than I receive?
Now as I’ve said before: A relationship is what you want it to be. If a romantic relationship for you for example doesn’t involve sex, that is absolutely fine! What you described above is kind of worrying though because it reads like you don’t value people for what they are but for what they offer and how you can capitalize on that (yeah taking the nitpicking pretty far here to illustrate a point).
It reads like you’re trying to use equations and rationalizing models to explain human behavior and interaction. Which makes me want to put out the reminder again that humans are complex and not to be confused with machines.
I knowni wasn’t asked to weigh in here, but I’m putting off a second workout so my jumbled 2c:
I would always be wary of getting into a relationship in order to gain things that could be bought instead. I don’t get into relationships because I want sex. I don’t get into relationships because I want someone to take care of my kids or clean my house. I can pay for those things if that was all I wanted. I get into relationships because I want the things that can’t be bought and that I would probably struggle to put into words.
This strikes me as the result of thinking of life as a “zero sum” game. I’ve found it very helpful for my own relationships to try and avoid that thinking, and the associated “if I do this for X, they’ll do Y for me”. I do things for other people because it helps them be happier/healthier/better/whatever and I want them to be that thing. I don’t expect anything back except maybe the joy from seeing them become happier/healthier/whatever. I also heard another line of thinking the other day which I’ve yet to explore but makes sense at surface level. That is that by doing things solely for the benefit of others, you successfully remove the focus from yourself and put someone else at the centre of things for a while. That might seem obvious but if dwelling on yourself and your own issues causes you unhappiness, maybe focusing on others needs and problems is a helpful step temporarily.
Quoted because, as always, @flappinit says everything I believe, but more succinctly.
You appear to have a pretty long “must have” list for potential partners. In my experience, the people I know with laundry lists of “must haves” are single, without exception. Often they meet the right person, who ticks none of their boxes, and the lists disapears. In fact my Facebook timeliness had an example of an engagement just like that this morning. Just an observation.
And to clarify: I don’t necessarily think like this because I’m a nice guy. I try to think like this because it makes me happier. Its not a purely selfless thing.
@flappinit@Koestrizer@dagill2@magick thanks so much for the input!
To clarify: when I say want bf for moving stuff, I meant that is the difference for me btw good friend and bf is that I’d feel comfortable asking for help with inconvenient tasks on occasion ie when moving out of dorm.
@flappinit i agree that I tend to see relationships as transactional, which is why I’m so confused why my friend (the Econ maths one) keeps me around. With my other friends, I listen to them, share entertaining content (food, writing, tv recommendations) and help them if they ask. In return, they listen to me and sometimes help me when I ask (although I’m careful not to be bothersome) My relationship with this friend is extremely one sided because he’s better than me at maths and Econ and doesn’t care about the other stuff I use to provide value to others
Well, I just don’t think it’s fair to expect this of people other than parents and a therapist.
I do complain about mum or express frustration about stuff, but it’s either in a public, semi- anonymous format (ie this log, discord) or in a half joking way to friends in private
Probably true. Apparently my other friend (not the Econ one) is ace too.
To stay focused, at least in undergrad- as was the plan
Yes and this was intentional and part of the reason I think he’s so great. Since our relationship is based around “work”, being closer-> more productivity instead of distraction like many of my classmates’
@SkyzykS ive not experienced any sort of tragedy. The only potentially negative thing I’ve experienced is my parents fighting, but that’s because of having kids. They had the perfect marriage before having my little bro and I, and their experience is why I never want kids
The moment I stopped living for myself was the moment I was on the path to being happy.
Anna, my mindset is almost the total opposite from what have been describing, so it’s tough for me to understand how someone could think the way you do (not that it’s a bad thing, just different). Have you ever tried to get out of your own head for a little? Just disconnect from school, work, lifting, relationships? Just be with yourself for a little while?
When my classmates got bfs, most of them ended up paying less attention to studies and on clubs, sports… to spend more time with them. … and all of them had very bad breakups that left them ruined for weeks.
Some ppl are okay with that, it’s not what I want
I have an internal monologue that I try to shut off. The best way to describe it is that I’m playing a VR game, where my body is the avatar and the “real me” is sitting in a control room. I hate this feeling so I try and find other things to shut this off. It is, however, useful as an internal editor to help me communicate in a socially acceptable way
Maybe stop worrying about being socially acceptable and editing yourself. Why not be the person you want to be instead of the person people expect you to be?
I think some form of disconnection would be helpful. Get lost in something that doesn’t pertain to your normal day to day life…painting, try a musical instrument or something to just lose track of time in.
My “meditation” used to be playing guitar. I would lose myself in it for hours at a time and it would just be me and my guitar in this deep hole, not even thinking about playing. Just letting it happen and not worrying about what it sounds like. I would come out the other end so, so happy. Also, just sitting and listening to music. Trying to think about what the artist was thinking and feeling during the writing of the song. You can connect pretty deeply with someone through listening to their art.