And We Were All Overreacting Over BLM?

In either case it is 100% accurate

You said you disagreed, but then brought in extra variables so you could have something to disagree about

If you want to have a highly precise conversation about it, you should admit that you do agree your original statement didn’t highlight the real issue accurately and that your original statement could be said about any party, accurately

For example:

But you didn’t specify a level earlier - here is the original:

If I was to say:

(Insert democrat here) can say something on video, then a week later claim he didn’t say it, and it is believed by a good portion of his base that he didn’t say it. Many of his followers think he has good morals, isn’t a con artist. It is quite frustrating. Many of them are not interested in hearing anything that goes against what they currently believe. They don’t care about what is true, they care about what they believe.

Would you then call me a liar?
Would you even disagree with a single word of my paragraph?
Or would you then and only then start getting detailed about saying it’s somewhat true but not as important as something else? Or “how much is many”?
“Link some studies”
“You made the claim, now prove it”

If you actually do disagree with what polo was saying, you haven’t showed it. Seems like you assumed a lot, but that’s just my opinion I guess

I brought in extra variables when he replied to “and it would be just as accurate”. I had already agreed that Dems do the same thing too. I should be able to add variables based on the reply. I can admit that “just as accurate” doesn’t necessarily mean “to the same extent”. That was an error on how I inferred @polo77j reply.

I can admit my error. I read into it more than justified. I do however think that a clarification on his part would be in order for honest debate, and I would have agreed at that point.

1 Like

What are the confirmed lies of Trump? I am frequent reader of The Guardian, as I am from Europe. And while their media is still okay, when it comes to Trump, they are full of shit. There are many stuff posted about him, how he lies. But then when tou check the interview it is not what he says at all.

For example the video regarding light curing Covid. The media came out saying Trump suggests injecting bleach to cure Covid. While all he said was someone curiously asking if bleach and light cure COVID, then sooner or later there may be a cure via injecting. Turns out there is indeed a company which has.technology to “inject” light, and they get banned on twitter. However Trump never suggested injecting bleach. That is what the media suggested that Trump suggested.

Or hydroxiclorocline or however you spell that shit. The media was so full of shit and.the democrats sponsored fake researches, just to say Trump was wrong. Turns out they robbed humanity of a potent cure. One would even wish this drug was not mentioned by Trump, so the media did not produce the fake news for the drug.

So no I would not say Trump lies. The media is just extremely bad and has agenda behind the news, that is why nobody listens or reads the news.

The media presents Trump as a fascist, but he is the first American president that is anti war and brings back soldiers to their home. Not something that Hitler would do you know.

3 Likes

Yeah, same here.

@mnben87 and others, can you please expand on this, especially what “evangelical christians” are in the US? Even the conservative christians(catholics, baptists, protestants) where I live consider evangelicals to be lunatics here. And, quite frankly, I’ve never met an evangelical without any overt mental issues, as in I noticed the person had some mental issues BEFORE I found out he/she was an evangelical, not the other way around.

I’m really not writing this to be demeaning to evangelicals elsewhere, just want to understand the different practices in other countries. I’m a non-church-going catholic myself for personal reasons.

BTW, this appeared in my youtube suggestions for some reason. It’s not perfect, but it’s the closest description of these ideologies the way I’ve been taught and have self-learned. It’s why I don’t even want to call the marxist loons “communists”. The real problem is the normalization of the term “socialism”.

@loppar, would really love your valuable input.

TLDR:

Socialism = “A society in which the means of production and distribution and exchange are owned by the community as a whole.”

This is where people get confused because:

“Community as a whole” = STATE

STATE = Totalitarianism, centralized planning, redistribution and all that good stuff.

Communism = NO MORE STATE; hippie commune

NO country in history has EVER reached this theoretical “phase” because everyone and their dog knows that once the State has absolute power, they will never give it back.

Social democracy =/= Socialism

4 Likes

Which explains why your post is full of errors.

We’ll, he’s correct that Social-democracy is a capitalist concept and that it’s benefit stem primarily from the redistribution-lite done through progressive taxation. Marxist critics claim this redistribution-lite reduces inequality, pacifies the working class and thus safeguards capitalism and those on the top of the pyramid, which isn’t that far off.

The key problem is scaling.

To quote the late David Graeber - who was a far left intellectual but walked the walk and had some really thought-provoking ideas - we’re all communists at a nuclear family level.

We don’t consider money spent on ones toddler a credit to be paid back (there’s a great Italian movie about this called Alberto Express) and while the marriage lasts more often than not the same principle applies to our spouse.

Outside of our nuclear family, we’re socialists. If our sibling and his/her family lose everything in a natural disaster (something without agency nor stemming from life choices), come to our door locking for a place to stay and we offer them the current Airbnb rate, we’ll probably get punched in the face.

This socialism exponentially drops with ones concentric social circles flowing outwards. The relationship with your extended family, good friends or next door neighbors is often pretty socialist because you may do them a favor (“according to their needs”) for which you do not necessarily require immediate reimbursement but a tacit understanding that they themselves will provide a favor (doesn’t have to be comparable) sometime in the future (“according to their ability”).

The concept also assumes asymmetry and that is the reason why we inherently consider people who arrange their social relationships in transactional terms of total equivalence assholes. Incidentally, living with a neighbor who follows libertarian principles to the letter would be a nightmare and result in him/her being bludgeoned to death in case of a systemic shock to the social system.

This “socialism” of concentric social circles drops to negligible but non-zero amounts for complete strangers and is usually formalized as “common courtesy” and varies from culture to culture (face masks are a good example).

The problem with state socialism is that it destroys by force this concept of social and economic relationships and introduces a preposterous notion that a complete stranger, a “comrade” sometimes living seven time zones away and speaking a different language, has the same position in our societal circle as a, let’s say an extended family member.

This aggressive state meddling in private and social relationships, by introducing the great “leveling” destroy community and family bonds, not to mention the nuclear family. The only arbiter of all relationships - social, personal - is the state.

You cannot feel loneliness when you have a hundred fifty million comrades.

7 Likes

That, and several years later all the people capable of running things are dead, starved, or traumatized.

3 Likes

Kind of seems like all this communist ideology is a trick to get people to accept a totalitarian dictatorship. Look at China, still call themselves communist but really it’s more like a highly unequal capitalist country with high tech surveillance and countless human rights violations.

One study doesn’t really prove anything, the same results need to be reproducible by other studies as well. And aside from that, he has very low credibility anyway.

I actually don’t know much about China but I’m inclined to believe it has the largest middle class in the world, is a serious country (unlike us), doesn’t put up with the insanity we do, and is not some hotbed of tyrants lording over rice farmers that is the image that comes to the average American yokels mind.

I actually think the US is guilty of rights violations over its own citizens too, especially recently.

1 Like

Kinsey, Freud, and the whole Frankfurt lot did enormous damage to us.

2 Likes

While I very much agree with this, being “middle class” really doesn’t mean much there. Relative to developed nations, you’d have to be at least upper middle class to live a nice life there. And the amount of corruption at all levels of society will literally blow your mind, and I’m saying this as someone who grew up in one of the most corrupt countries in Asia. I’ve written before I’ve even had to bribe doctors for standard treatment at hospitals in a 2nd tier city.

4 Likes

There are a lot of wealthy Chinese, but from what I have seen and heard it looks like most people are not living in the greatest conditions.

The Chinese government and ruling class is a lot of things, but stupid is not one of them.

The US is far from innocent, but there is nothing going on there that compares to stuff like the Uighur reeducation camps or organ harvesting of prisoners.

2 Likes

And there’s a reason why lots of wealthy Chinese are snapping up property overseas and/or sending their kids there to study. They want foreign passports. I’ve helped 2 clients get citizenship over here.

You know that live action version of Mulan that was just released? All the actors are popular in China.

NONE of them are China citizens. Not even Jet Li.

1 Like

Why exactly? Just so they can leave the country when they want or is there something else to it? I hear there are also more than a few wealthy Vietnamese people trying to get Canadian citizenships these days.

Lots of them just don’t want to live in China. Also, a good amount of them have made their wealth through under the table dealings with the State and Xi’s crackdown on corruption a decade ago spooked them.

3 Likes

Even middle class citizens are leaving but it’s harder for them to get citizenship overseas. It got to the point where the government wanted to introduce this policy:

It’s recently been revived I’m not sure if they’re serious this time.

2 Likes

Exactly like Russia. With the (possible) exception of Putin, everyone in the Russian elite - from Putin’s cronies in the government to oligarchs and even provincial small fry mayors - keeps their families in the decadent West and has a second citizenship from an EU country.

This “order” was misinterpreted in the Western media as “WWIII is imminent”, but it was actually for domestic consumption only. Literally everyone kept their families in NATO countries and flew to Russia on Monday morning for the workweek.

“The evil West wants to destroy Mother Russia” foaming at the mouth at a press conference is somewhat less believable if you’ve just flown in to Russia from your villa on the French riviera.

The newspaper says the edict applies to “administration staff, regional administrators, politicians of all levels and employees of public corporations” and that “anyone who fails to act will put their chances of promotion at risk.”

2 Likes

I haven’t found this to be true in the US. Many are good people, and I have several evangelical friends. I do think in many cases they are guilty of group thinking, and it seems to be largely coupled with GoP politics. I see that as an issue.

1 Like