Question primarily for Pat, and for everyone else who feels strongly about abortion.
If paying taxes necessarily meant funding abortion, would you stop paying taxes?
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Question primarily for Pat, and for everyone else who feels strongly about abortion.
If paying taxes necessarily meant funding abortion, would you stop paying taxes?
[/quote]
If it would actually do any good, then yes I would. But I am not going to pound-me-in-the-ass prison out of civil disobedience for nothing. Actual lives would have to be saved.
Since it is likely that me going to prison would not do a damn thing to stop abortion, then I will give to Caesar what is Caesar’s.
But I am and will use my rights as a citizen to wall paper Washington with my protests. I will use what ever legal means necessary to combat this wretched disease on our land. You are, shortly going to hear the pro-life movement get very, very loud. We are preparing for war.
I differ from most pro-lifers in one very important point, I don’t see it as a religious issue. It is merely a life and death issue. The killing of a unborn human is the same as me walking next door and killing my neighbor. So for me to shut the fuck up one of two things has to happen. Either the laws on murder must be altered to allow for some forms of murder to be OK, or abortion has to be treated like any other form of murder. In either case, at least we are honest about what it is. Taking human life is ok, or it isn’t.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
tme wrote:
There is already a douchebag thread on this topic, started by non other than Douchebag Supremo himself.
Please try to understand that Obama’s order does not in any way permit US taxpayer funding of abortions in other countries. No, we’re not paying for abortions in other countries. I know, it might take a bit to sink in, especially for those thicker-headed individuals on this site.
Still with me? Ok, so now if a rape victim in ROC or Darfur or someplace contacts a family planning or rape assistance agency that receives US funding and asks about abortion as an option, they don’t have to tell her to fuck off. They are legally allowed to provide counselling or information that said victim can use to make an informed decision.
Wow, I agree that’s just horrible, but we did it for eight years before w came along, we can do it for eight more.
You got balls calling someone thick…Please find a “family planning” clinic in Darfur…Which tent is it? Or is it that card board box over the hill.
They got bigger problems in Darfur like eating and AIDS, oh yeah, getting raped daily.
Wow…
You might want to think for a second or two before you open your mouth or type on the computer. Do you think “rape” and “family planning” might just, maybe, have a little to do with each other?
If you need access to an article, ask and provide an e-mail address and I’ll send it to you.
Please, educate yourself.
Oh, wait. So how would one plan a family around rape? I guess there is the certainty that they will be raped. Still don’t see any clinics.
You can PM me with an article if you wish. I am very excited about it.
Try to digest this,
In a place where rape is prevalent, women will become pregnant when they don’t want to be. Baby = family. For many women, becoming pregnant by rape means that they want an abortion. Abortion does not JUST happen in rich countries. Regardless of abortion, family services should be provided when possible. “Family planning” occurs if the baby was planned or not.
If you haven’t found “any clinics” you didn’t bother to click on ANY of the links. Please try to educate yourself, I cannot do the work for you, you must do it for yourself. Because many of the articles there were “pay to view” I am offering to help you to get them for free.
YOU have to do the work. You wrote something incredibly ignorant, please educate yourself.
[/quote]
Any of the links lead all to the same place. A single article from the UN, indicating they did some “family planning” work in the region. No indication that work is continuing. And perhaps the UN would better serve those people by trying to prevent the rapes rather than killing off the offspring.
If the UN insists on killing folks then I fully support them picking off the jinjaweed soldiers like ducks at a carnival. I would be more than happy to pay for that. They could kill them all for all I care, those are what I consider, non-humans. Killing a roach is a bigger tragedy.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Question primarily for Pat, and for everyone else who feels strongly about abortion.
If paying taxes necessarily meant funding abortion, would you stop paying taxes?
[/quote]
If so, I wouldn’t announce it. Or, I could look at it like this, I try to keep stuff like this from happening. So while I do pay taxes, I try to have some impact on where they go. And will do my part to get this stopped in the future. Therefore, this in Obama’s wrong, not mine.
[quote]pat wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
tme wrote:
There is already a douchebag thread on this topic, started by non other than Douchebag Supremo himself.
Please try to understand that Obama’s order does not in any way permit US taxpayer funding of abortions in other countries. No, we’re not paying for abortions in other countries. I know, it might take a bit to sink in, especially for those thicker-headed individuals on this site.
Still with me? Ok, so now if a rape victim in ROC or Darfur or someplace contacts a family planning or rape assistance agency that receives US funding and asks about abortion as an option, they don’t have to tell her to fuck off. They are legally allowed to provide counselling or information that said victim can use to make an informed decision.
Wow, I agree that’s just horrible, but we did it for eight years before w came along, we can do it for eight more.
You got balls calling someone thick…Please find a “family planning” clinic in Darfur…Which tent is it? Or is it that card board box over the hill.
They got bigger problems in Darfur like eating and AIDS, oh yeah, getting raped daily.
Wow…
You might want to think for a second or two before you open your mouth or type on the computer. Do you think “rape” and “family planning” might just, maybe, have a little to do with each other?
If you need access to an article, ask and provide an e-mail address and I’ll send it to you.
Please, educate yourself.
Oh, wait. So how would one plan a family around rape? I guess there is the certainty that they will be raped. Still don’t see any clinics.
You can PM me with an article if you wish. I am very excited about it.
Try to digest this,
In a place where rape is prevalent, women will become pregnant when they don’t want to be. Baby = family. For many women, becoming pregnant by rape means that they want an abortion. Abortion does not JUST happen in rich countries. Regardless of abortion, family services should be provided when possible. “Family planning” occurs if the baby was planned or not.
If you haven’t found “any clinics” you didn’t bother to click on ANY of the links. Please try to educate yourself, I cannot do the work for you, you must do it for yourself. Because many of the articles there were “pay to view” I am offering to help you to get them for free.
YOU have to do the work. You wrote something incredibly ignorant, please educate yourself.
Any of the links lead all to the same place. A single article from the UN, indicating they did some “family planning” work in the region. No indication that work is continuing. And perhaps the UN would better serve those people by trying to prevent the rapes rather than killing off the offspring.
If the UN insists on killing folks then I fully support them picking off the jinjaweed soldiers like ducks at a carnival. I would be more than happy to pay for that. They could kill them all for all I care, those are what I consider, non-humans. Killing a roach is a bigger tragedy.[/quote]
Try again. Learning is hard work. But if you actually want to be educated about a subject, you’ll need to spend time on it. YOU have to do the work. I can’t do it for you.
But for a little help, look at the first article linked (ScienceDirect), of the Doctors without Boarders link. Note neither is “the UN”.
The point of that link, btw, was to show you how easy it was, through the easiest of google searches, to learn about this and not sound so ignorant. You can also try googlescholar, interaction’s website, or a plethora of other locations. I’m sure the UNHCR has info up as well. Hell, even USAID probably has some info up on the website.
As far as shooting the janjaweed, go for it.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
tme wrote:
There is already a douchebag thread on this topic, started by non other than Douchebag Supremo himself.
Please try to understand that Obama’s order does not in any way permit US taxpayer funding of abortions in other countries. No, we’re not paying for abortions in other countries. I know, it might take a bit to sink in, especially for those thicker-headed individuals on this site.
Still with me? Ok, so now if a rape victim in ROC or Darfur or someplace contacts a family planning or rape assistance agency that receives US funding and asks about abortion as an option, they don’t have to tell her to fuck off. They are legally allowed to provide counselling or information that said victim can use to make an informed decision.
Wow, I agree that’s just horrible, but we did it for eight years before w came along, we can do it for eight more.
You got balls calling someone thick…Please find a “family planning” clinic in Darfur…Which tent is it? Or is it that card board box over the hill.
They got bigger problems in Darfur like eating and AIDS, oh yeah, getting raped daily.
Wow…
You might want to think for a second or two before you open your mouth or type on the computer. Do you think “rape” and “family planning” might just, maybe, have a little to do with each other?
If you need access to an article, ask and provide an e-mail address and I’ll send it to you.
Please, educate yourself.
Oh, wait. So how would one plan a family around rape? I guess there is the certainty that they will be raped. Still don’t see any clinics.
You can PM me with an article if you wish. I am very excited about it.
Try to digest this,
In a place where rape is prevalent, women will become pregnant when they don’t want to be. Baby = family. For many women, becoming pregnant by rape means that they want an abortion. Abortion does not JUST happen in rich countries. Regardless of abortion, family services should be provided when possible. “Family planning” occurs if the baby was planned or not.
If you haven’t found “any clinics” you didn’t bother to click on ANY of the links. Please try to educate yourself, I cannot do the work for you, you must do it for yourself. Because many of the articles there were “pay to view” I am offering to help you to get them for free.
YOU have to do the work. You wrote something incredibly ignorant, please educate yourself.
Any of the links lead all to the same place. A single article from the UN, indicating they did some “family planning” work in the region. No indication that work is continuing. And perhaps the UN would better serve those people by trying to prevent the rapes rather than killing off the offspring.
If the UN insists on killing folks then I fully support them picking off the jinjaweed soldiers like ducks at a carnival. I would be more than happy to pay for that. They could kill them all for all I care, those are what I consider, non-humans. Killing a roach is a bigger tragedy.
Try again. Learning is hard work. But if you actually want to be educated about a subject, you’ll need to spend time on it. YOU have to do the work. I can’t do it for you.
But for a little help, look at the first article linked (ScienceDirect), of the Doctors without Boarders link. Note neither is “the UN”.
The point of that link, btw, was to show you how easy it was, through the easiest of google searches, to learn about this and not sound so ignorant. You can also try googlescholar, interaction’s website, or a plethora of other locations. I’m sure the UNHCR has info up as well. Hell, even USAID probably has some info up on the website.
As far as shooting the janjaweed, go for it.
[/quote]
Even if I am wrong about how many abortion facilities they have in Darfur, I cannot see how it’s going to change my mind about using tax payer funds to assist, advise, or otherwise help abortions here or abroad. As far as I am concerned, every other tent can be an abortion clinic and I am still against it. Getting educated on ‘family planning’ services in Darfur is just not that high on my list of things to learn.
Every article I found was an order an pay article. I did see some “Doctors without borders” stuff but they did not mention abortion as one of their services.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Magarhe wrote:
I think Obama is gonna piss off a lot of ignorant citizens
Ah, there you go. I’m ignorant for expecting some damned accountability for where my share of the giveaway goes. You know what’s ignorant? Not distributing what money there was, only to organizations that wouldn’t bring this issue up in the first place.
“We’re going to be charitable with your money. And no, you don’t have a say. Oh ok, you’ll reluctantly go along with it? That’s fine, you don’t have to agree, but you better pay those taxes. What’s that? Yes, it’ll be going to abortion providers. You take issue with that specific aspect of our forced charity program? Wait, you want to compromise? You guys sure are demanding!”[/quote]
Accountability? How about some accountability to the beneficiaries on the Fing ground? You don’t like how your taxes are being spent? Tough. I don’t like how some of mine are either. But if we’re going to be giving money to people in Darfur (among other places), we should be giving it to orgs that have the best RESULTS, not one’s that cater to your opinion.
The global gag rule was a joke. Orgs couldn’t even TALK about abortions.
Mother: Is an abortion a safe option?
NGO: I’m sorry, we receive US funding so I am not allowed to answer that question.
[quote]pat wrote:
Even if I am wrong about how many abortion facilities they have in Darfur, I cannot see how it’s going to change my mind about using tax payer funds to assist, advise, or otherwise help abortions here or abroad. As far as I am concerned, every other tent can be an abortion clinic and I am still against it. Getting educated on ‘family planning’ services in Darfur is just not that high on my list of things to learn.
Every article I found was an order an pay article. I did see some “Doctors without borders” stuff but they did not mention abortion as one of their services.
[/quote]
It’s one thing to have an opinion, it’s another to have an opinion bathed in ignorance. “family planning” and “family planning clinics” don’t just mean “abortions”.
Once again, I offered, and will continue to offer to get those articles if you ask. I’ve already paid for the vast majority of them.
MSF (doctors w/o borders) doesn’t take US funding for ideological reasons. But they DEAL with abortions, certainly. Talking about abortions IS important. Here’s an article I quickly found that may help you to start to understand why:
http://www.msf.org/msfinternational/invoke.cfm?component=article&objectid=03A9E73D-15C5-F00A-256EC342ED89E5E7&method=full_html
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Question primarily for Pat, and for everyone else who feels strongly about abortion.
If paying taxes necessarily meant funding abortion, would you stop paying taxes?
[/quote]
Honestly, the question is, why the hell did we let our government get so powerful in the first place? Tax dollars to foreign “family planning.” It’s unbelievable.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Question primarily for Pat, and for everyone else who feels strongly about abortion.
If paying taxes necessarily meant funding abortion, would you stop paying taxes?[/quote]
Personally, it depends on the abortion. Rape/Incest, I’d pay my taxes. “Family Planning”, no.
It’s funny that in countries so morally corroded that rape is dismissed out of hand, we make it even more convenient.
Although, this is the same logic that considers abortion a ‘successful’ part of planning.
[quote]pat wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
tme wrote:
There is already a douchebag thread on this topic, started by non other than Douchebag Supremo himself.
Please try to understand that Obama’s order does not in any way permit US taxpayer funding of abortions in other countries. No, we’re not paying for abortions in other countries. I know, it might take a bit to sink in, especially for those thicker-headed individuals on this site.
Still with me? Ok, so now if a rape victim in ROC or Darfur or someplace contacts a family planning or rape assistance agency that receives US funding and asks about abortion as an option, they don’t have to tell her to fuck off. They are legally allowed to provide counselling or information that said victim can use to make an informed decision.
Wow, I agree that’s just horrible, but we did it for eight years before w came along, we can do it for eight more.
You got balls calling someone thick…Please find a “family planning” clinic in Darfur…Which tent is it? Or is it that card board box over the hill.
They got bigger problems in Darfur like eating and AIDS, oh yeah, getting raped daily.
Wow…
You might want to think for a second or two before you open your mouth or type on the computer. Do you think “rape” and “family planning” might just, maybe, have a little to do with each other?
If you need access to an article, ask and provide an e-mail address and I’ll send it to you.
Please, educate yourself.
Oh, wait. So how would one plan a family around rape? I guess there is the certainty that they will be raped. Still don’t see any clinics.
You can PM me with an article if you wish. I am very excited about it.
Try to digest this,
In a place where rape is prevalent, women will become pregnant when they don’t want to be. Baby = family. For many women, becoming pregnant by rape means that they want an abortion. Abortion does not JUST happen in rich countries. Regardless of abortion, family services should be provided when possible. “Family planning” occurs if the baby was planned or not.
If you haven’t found “any clinics” you didn’t bother to click on ANY of the links. Please try to educate yourself, I cannot do the work for you, you must do it for yourself. Because many of the articles there were “pay to view” I am offering to help you to get them for free.
YOU have to do the work. You wrote something incredibly ignorant, please educate yourself.
Any of the links lead all to the same place. A single article from the UN, indicating they did some “family planning” work in the region. No indication that work is continuing. And perhaps the UN would better serve those people by trying to prevent the rapes rather than killing off the offspring.
If the UN insists on killing folks then I fully support them picking off the jinjaweed soldiers like ducks at a carnival. I would be more than happy to pay for that. They could kill them all for all I care, those are what I consider, non-humans. Killing a roach is a bigger tragedy.
Try again. Learning is hard work. But if you actually want to be educated about a subject, you’ll need to spend time on it. YOU have to do the work. I can’t do it for you.
But for a little help, look at the first article linked (ScienceDirect), of the Doctors without Boarders link. Note neither is “the UN”.
The point of that link, btw, was to show you how easy it was, through the easiest of google searches, to learn about this and not sound so ignorant. You can also try googlescholar, interaction’s website, or a plethora of other locations. I’m sure the UNHCR has info up as well. Hell, even USAID probably has some info up on the website.
As far as shooting the janjaweed, go for it.
Even if I am wrong about how many abortion facilities they have in Darfur, I cannot see how it’s going to change my mind about using tax payer funds to assist, advise, or otherwise help abortions here or abroad. As far as I am concerned, every other tent can be an abortion clinic and I am still against it. Getting educated on ‘family planning’ services in Darfur is just not that high on my list of things to learn.
Every article I found was an order an pay article. I did see some “Doctors without borders” stuff but they did not mention abortion as one of their services.
[/quote]
You do realise that advice on abortion doesn’t = telling people to get an abortion.
And that if the person cannot get advice on an abortion from a medically qualified person they will get that advice from whatever source is available. This will then likely lead them to attempt to deal with it themselves either by drinking something poisonous or grabbing the nearest rusty coat hanger.
But of course, this is happening in Dafur so is not your problem.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
pat wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
tme wrote:
There is already a douchebag thread on this topic, started by non other than Douchebag Supremo himself.
Please try to understand that Obama’s order does not in any way permit US taxpayer funding of abortions in other countries. No, we’re not paying for abortions in other countries. I know, it might take a bit to sink in, especially for those thicker-headed individuals on this site.
Still with me? Ok, so now if a rape victim in ROC or Darfur or someplace contacts a family planning or rape assistance agency that receives US funding and asks about abortion as an option, they don’t have to tell her to fuck off. They are legally allowed to provide counselling or information that said victim can use to make an informed decision.
Wow, I agree that’s just horrible, but we did it for eight years before w came along, we can do it for eight more.
You got balls calling someone thick…Please find a “family planning” clinic in Darfur…Which tent is it? Or is it that card board box over the hill.
They got bigger problems in Darfur like eating and AIDS, oh yeah, getting raped daily.
Wow…
You might want to think for a second or two before you open your mouth or type on the computer. Do you think “rape” and “family planning” might just, maybe, have a little to do with each other?
If you need access to an article, ask and provide an e-mail address and I’ll send it to you.
Please, educate yourself.
Oh, wait. So how would one plan a family around rape? I guess there is the certainty that they will be raped. Still don’t see any clinics.
You can PM me with an article if you wish. I am very excited about it.
Try to digest this,
In a place where rape is prevalent, women will become pregnant when they don’t want to be. Baby = family. For many women, becoming pregnant by rape means that they want an abortion. Abortion does not JUST happen in rich countries. Regardless of abortion, family services should be provided when possible. “Family planning” occurs if the baby was planned or not.
If you haven’t found “any clinics” you didn’t bother to click on ANY of the links. Please try to educate yourself, I cannot do the work for you, you must do it for yourself. Because many of the articles there were “pay to view” I am offering to help you to get them for free.
YOU have to do the work. You wrote something incredibly ignorant, please educate yourself.
Any of the links lead all to the same place. A single article from the UN, indicating they did some “family planning” work in the region. No indication that work is continuing. And perhaps the UN would better serve those people by trying to prevent the rapes rather than killing off the offspring.
If the UN insists on killing folks then I fully support them picking off the jinjaweed soldiers like ducks at a carnival. I would be more than happy to pay for that. They could kill them all for all I care, those are what I consider, non-humans. Killing a roach is a bigger tragedy.
Try again. Learning is hard work. But if you actually want to be educated about a subject, you’ll need to spend time on it. YOU have to do the work. I can’t do it for you.
But for a little help, look at the first article linked (ScienceDirect), of the Doctors without Boarders link. Note neither is “the UN”.
The point of that link, btw, was to show you how easy it was, through the easiest of google searches, to learn about this and not sound so ignorant. You can also try googlescholar, interaction’s website, or a plethora of other locations. I’m sure the UNHCR has info up as well. Hell, even USAID probably has some info up on the website.
As far as shooting the janjaweed, go for it.
Even if I am wrong about how many abortion facilities they have in Darfur, I cannot see how it’s going to change my mind about using tax payer funds to assist, advise, or otherwise help abortions here or abroad. As far as I am concerned, every other tent can be an abortion clinic and I am still against it. Getting educated on ‘family planning’ services in Darfur is just not that high on my list of things to learn.
Every article I found was an order an pay article. I did see some “Doctors without borders” stuff but they did not mention abortion as one of their services.
You do realise that advice on abortion doesn’t = telling people to get an abortion.
[/quote]
I am aware.
[quote]
And that if the person cannot get advice on an abortion from a medically qualified person they will get that advice from whatever source is available. This will then likely lead them to attempt to deal with it themselves either by drinking something poisonous or grabbing the nearest rusty coat hanger.
But of course, this is happening in Dafur so is not your problem.[/quote]
Again, I’d rather fund feeding the people and concentrate the efforts on the getting rid of the islamic militants who are perpetuating the atrocities there, rather than figuring giving them money to try and figure out ways of taking out the offspring.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
Even if I am wrong about how many abortion facilities they have in Darfur, I cannot see how it’s going to change my mind about using tax payer funds to assist, advise, or otherwise help abortions here or abroad. As far as I am concerned, every other tent can be an abortion clinic and I am still against it. Getting educated on ‘family planning’ services in Darfur is just not that high on my list of things to learn.
Every article I found was an order an pay article. I did see some “Doctors without borders” stuff but they did not mention abortion as one of their services.
It’s one thing to have an opinion, it’s another to have an opinion bathed in ignorance. “family planning” and “family planning clinics” don’t just mean “abortions”.
Once again, I offered, and will continue to offer to get those articles if you ask. I’ve already paid for the vast majority of them.
MSF (doctors w/o borders) doesn’t take US funding for ideological reasons. But they DEAL with abortions, certainly. Talking about abortions IS important. Here’s an article I quickly found that may help you to start to understand why:
http://www.msf.org/msfinternational/invoke.cfm?component=article&objectid=03A9E73D-15C5-F00A-256EC342ED89E5E7&method=full_html
[/quote]
Not funding abortions with our tax dollars is even more important because you are terminating a human life. I understand there are tragic circumstances where these pregnancies occur especially in Africa where militias perpetuate tremendous abuse of the most abominable and inhumane kind. But I can’t see American tax dollars given to converse about abortion is going to help those people.
They need more profound assistance than that. Fixing a tragedy with a travesty really isn’t going to help anyone.
I also cannot speak for somebody who is so desperate that they feel the need to stick a rope in themselves and try to yank out their baby. It’s a sad state of affairs of course, but I don’t support them having their kid chopped up with a knife and sucked out with a hoover either. It may be safer for her, but the kid still gets the shit end of the stick.
I also cannot figure out why people cut their ears into points so they can look like Spock.
[quote]pat wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Again, I’d rather fund feeding the people and concentrate the efforts on the getting rid of the islamic militants who are perpetuating the atrocities there, rather than figuring giving them money to try and figure out ways of taking out the offspring. [/quote]
But the ban would also stop people advising people against abortion, that is why it is stupid.
And for the record, you are funding the other things that you mention, it’s part of a package approach. In every aid package that is put together there will be some of the bits that you consider to be wasteful, I bet the amount actually spent on abortion advice is tiny.
[quote]pat wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
Even if I am wrong about how many abortion facilities they have in Darfur, I cannot see how it’s going to change my mind about using tax payer funds to assist, advise, or otherwise help abortions here or abroad. As far as I am concerned, every other tent can be an abortion clinic and I am still against it. Getting educated on ‘family planning’ services in Darfur is just not that high on my list of things to learn.
Every article I found was an order an pay article. I did see some “Doctors without borders” stuff but they did not mention abortion as one of their services.
It’s one thing to have an opinion, it’s another to have an opinion bathed in ignorance. “family planning” and “family planning clinics” don’t just mean “abortions”.
Once again, I offered, and will continue to offer to get those articles if you ask. I’ve already paid for the vast majority of them.
MSF (doctors w/o borders) doesn’t take US funding for ideological reasons. But they DEAL with abortions, certainly. Talking about abortions IS important. Here’s an article I quickly found that may help you to start to understand why:
http://www.msf.org/msfinternational/invoke.cfm?component=article&objectid=03A9E73D-15C5-F00A-256EC342ED89E5E7&method=full_html
Not funding abortions with our tax dollars is even more important because you are terminating a human life. I understand there are tragic circumstances where these pregnancies occur especially in Africa where militias perpetuate tremendous abuse of the most abominable and inhumane kind. But I can’t see American tax dollars given to converse about abortion is going to help those people.
They need more profound assistance than that. Fixing a tragedy with a travesty really isn’t going to help anyone.
I also cannot speak for somebody who is so desperate that they feel the need to stick a rope in themselves and try to yank out their baby. It’s a sad state of affairs of course, but I don’t support them having their kid chopped up with a knife and sucked out with a hoover either. It may be safer for her, but the kid still gets the shit end of the stick.
I also cannot figure out why people cut their ears into points so they can look like Spock.
[/quote]
If you cannot see that education about something that is going to happen anyway is a good idea then there is no point even trying to discuss it with you.
[quote]streamline wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
tme wrote:
There is already a douchebag thread on this topic, started by non other than Douchebag Supremo himself.
Please try to understand that Obama’s order does not in any way permit US taxpayer funding of abortions in other countries. No, we’re not paying for abortions in other countries. I know, it might take a bit to sink in, especially for those thicker-headed individuals on this site.
Still with me? Ok, so now if a rape victim in ROC or Darfur or someplace contacts a family planning or rape assistance agency that receives US funding and asks about abortion as an option, they don’t have to tell her to fuck off. They are legally allowed to provide counselling or information that said victim can use to make an informed decision.
Wow, I agree that’s just horrible, but we did it for eight years before w came along, we can do it for eight more.
Incorrect - the recipients of the federal funds could have received the money if only they had taken abortion off the menu of options they provided. Nothing prohibited them from doing their job - they could still counsel, provide medical services, etc. Yet, so important that abortion stayed on as an option, they forfeited tons of free money.
Your nonsense aside, this is and always has been about abortion.
It’s about the right to choose and governmental control over personal decisions.[/quote]
What fucking right to choose? [i]LIFE ,liberty, and the persuit of happiness.[/]
Where the fuck is infanticide on that list?
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
pat wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Again, I’d rather fund feeding the people and concentrate the efforts on the getting rid of the islamic militants who are perpetuating the atrocities there, rather than figuring giving them money to try and figure out ways of taking out the offspring.
But the ban would also stop people advising people against abortion, that is why it is stupid.
And for the record, you are funding the other things that you mention, it’s part of a package approach. In every aid package that is put together there will be some of the bits that you consider to be wasteful, I bet the amount actually spent on abortion advice is tiny.[/quote]
I heard the lifting of said ban is going to cost over $400 million. Not cheap, especially in the current economic climate.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
pat wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
pat wrote:
Even if I am wrong about how many abortion facilities they have in Darfur, I cannot see how it’s going to change my mind about using tax payer funds to assist, advise, or otherwise help abortions here or abroad. As far as I am concerned, every other tent can be an abortion clinic and I am still against it.
Getting educated on ‘family planning’ services in Darfur is just not that high on my list of things to learn.
Every article I found was an order an pay article. I did see some “Doctors without borders” stuff but they did not mention abortion as one of their services.
It’s one thing to have an opinion, it’s another to have an opinion bathed in ignorance. “family planning” and “family planning clinics” don’t just mean “abortions”.
Once again, I offered, and will continue to offer to get those articles if you ask. I’ve already paid for the vast majority of them.
MSF (doctors w/o borders) doesn’t take US funding for ideological reasons. But they DEAL with abortions, certainly. Talking about abortions IS important.
Here’s an article I quickly found that may help you to start to understand why:
http://www.msf.org/msfinternational/invoke.cfm?component=article&objectid=03A9E73D-15C5-F00A-256EC342ED89E5E7&method=full_html
Not funding abortions with our tax dollars is even more important because you are terminating a human life. I understand there are tragic circumstances where these pregnancies occur especially in Africa where militias perpetuate tremendous abuse of the most abominable and inhumane kind. But I can’t see American tax dollars given to converse about abortion is going to help those people.
They need more profound assistance than that. Fixing a tragedy with a travesty really isn’t going to help anyone.
I also cannot speak for somebody who is so desperate that they feel the need to stick a rope in themselves and try to yank out their baby. It’s a sad state of affairs of course, but I don’t support them having their kid chopped up with a knife and sucked out with a hoover either. It may be safer for her, but the kid still gets the shit end of the stick.
I also cannot figure out why people cut their ears into points so they can look like Spock.
If you cannot see that education about something that is going to happen anyway is a good idea then there is no point even trying to discuss it with you.[/quote]
Amid the myriad of really bad problems many Africans and other poor nations in general are facing, I couldn’t imagine anything less valuable to them. Seems pretty damn low on the totem poll.
[quote]pat wrote:
If you cannot see that education about something that is going to happen anyway is a good idea then there is no point even trying to discuss it with you.
Amid the myriad of really bad problems many Africans and other poor nations in general are facing, I couldn’t imagine anything less valuable to them. Seems pretty damn low on the totem poll.[/quote]
You “couldn’t imagine anything less valuable to them” than education? wow.
Generally, when one knows absolutely nothing about a topic, they shut up and listen, or start to educate themselves…I suggest (again) that you do both.
[quote]pat wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
pat wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Again, I’d rather fund feeding the people and concentrate the efforts on the getting rid of the islamic militants who are perpetuating the atrocities there, rather than figuring giving them money to try and figure out ways of taking out the offspring.
But the ban would also stop people advising people against abortion, that is why it is stupid.
And for the record, you are funding the other things that you mention, it’s part of a package approach. In every aid package that is put together there will be some of the bits that you consider to be wasteful, I bet the amount actually spent on abortion advice is tiny.
I heard the lifting of said ban is going to cost over $400 million. Not cheap, especially in the current economic climate.[/quote]
I doubt the $400 million is for abortion advice, more like it is aid that cannot currently be given due to the ruling.