After several oral-only cycles I am now ready to start poking myself with needles.
Until recently I was in a situation where storing syringes in my apartment was out of the question, so I went with several (some would say crazy) cycles of anadrol and winstrol and even one with anadrol and dianabol.
Good thing is I have kept nearly all my strength from these cycles, and some size as well. Liver was fine when tested three weeks after 6 week run of both dbol and anadrol, as was cholesterol. Still probably not something one should do too often.
EDIT: Decided on a shorter more intense cycle than the orginal 12-weeker. Frontloaded the Test E.
week 1-8: Test E 700mg
week 1-7: tren E 200mg
week 1-4: anadrol 100mg ED
week 1-8: adex 0.25-0.5 ED
week 10-14:nolva 20mg ED
Got no gyno from 100mg ED anadrol and 30-40mg ED dianabol when combining these, so I guess I am not too prone to gyno, but with tren in there i’ll be carefull.
Any comments and/or criticism?
I am a bit unsure if should use .25mg adex ED or EOD.
Also, what do you guys think of anadrol in the middle rather than for a kickstart?
I know for dbol and such is good to start early. I have done so with tbol with great success and plan to do the same with dbol.
Now for the adex eod. I do 0.25 mg ed as with it I have no gyno “tickles”, but with eod I do. It’s personal I guess but I have the same experience with another lifter that also did only deca cycles before. Now he took some test and also upped adex to 0.25 mg ed. I don’t know I guess it’s up to how you feel.
Why tren in a first cycle? Seems overkill to me.
For PCT I always do 40/40/20/20. And it worked out quite nicely.
[quote]funmetal wrote:
I know for dbol and such is good to start early. I have done so with tbol with great success and plan to do the same with dbol.
Now for the adex eod. I do 0.25 mg ed as with it I have no gyno “tickles”, but with eod I do. It’s personal I guess but I have the same experience with another lifter that also did only deca cycles before. Now he took some test and also upped adex to 0.25 mg ed. I don’t know I guess it’s up to how you feel.
Why tren in a first cycle? Seems overkill to me.
For PCT I always do 40/40/20/20. And it worked out quite nicely.
funmetal[/quote]
Agreed.
Screw tren, its a monster in both strength and sides.
Use it later when the regular test cycles just aren’t getting you off anymore.
I’ll be the third guy to say no to the tren. Not to mention that using enanthate, if you have any sides, it will take much longer for it to get out of your system than using the acetate ester.
[quote]balisong wrote:
Well the thing is I get the tren E for free!
It’s just one vial. 200mg/ml at 10ml. So would serve for 9-10 weeks at 200mg/week.
Should I expect a lot of sides from 200mg a week? Isn’t this a fairly low dose?[/quote]
200mg is a low dose. I was doing 350mg/week of acetate and the only real side to note was night sweats. My appetite was somewhat decreased as well.
Strength and aggression do come up, but it is a 19-Nor with some other nasty sides.
If you get it for free then hell why not throw it in there. Just research the hell out of it so you know what to do when the sides come (they may not but chances are more likely you’ll experience something)
Having the E ester instead of acetate makes it worse only because if the sides come then it won’t clear your system that fast and you’ll have to deal with the sides for a couple weeks.
[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
balisong wrote:
Well the thing is I get the tren E for free!
It’s just one vial. 200mg/ml at 10ml. So would serve for 9-10 weeks at 200mg/week.
Should I expect a lot of sides from 200mg a week? Isn’t this a fairly low dose?
200mg is a low dose. I was doing 350mg/week of acetate and the only real side to note was night sweats. My appetite was somewhat decreased as well.
Strength and aggression do come up, but it is a 19-Nor with some other nasty sides.
If you get it for free then hell why not throw it in there. Just research the hell out of it so you know what to do when the sides come (they may not but chances are more likely you’ll experience something)
Having the E ester instead of acetate makes it worse only because if the sides come then it won’t clear your system that fast and you’ll have to deal with the sides for a couple weeks.
Look up Bromocriptine and Cabergoline.
Looks like fun lol
DG[/quote]
chances are he will go with your advice though, good toys are just so hard to pass up! =p
If you use the tren, you’ll probably want to have something to control prolactin (or is it progesterone, I forget). This would be bromocriptin, which is cheap but sometimes causes the unfortunate side of ugly nausea, or cabergoline, which seems to do nothing but good for people but, unfortunately, cost a lot more.
Also be wary of using cabergoline/cabaser from research chems, as the drug seems to be unstable in liquid, and will quickly degrade. I have personal knowledge of a friend who may have seriously fucked himself up hormonally from the elevated prolactin of a tren cycle when his cabaser didn’t work. I don’t know for a fact that this was the problem, but all signs point to this, and it’s really not something you want to fuck around with, as he was at times nearly suicidally depressive.
Also, as was stated before, you are using tren enth. In addition to tren being not recommended this time around by me and many others, if you do have problems, you are going to continue to have them for a long time after they start. If you’re going to start with tren, you’re a lot better off using tren ace.
I would heed the advice you have received in this thread and just wait. You’ll have a terrific first injectible cycle just they way you have it set up without needing to add tren at this time.
Well I certainly wouldn’t pass up free tren, but I certainly wouldn’t want to deal with it during my first cycle, when you still have worries about injecting.
Im a huge proponent of the first cycle being only orals and test.
Ok guys I hear you. Will definitely do more research regarding tren, and look into cabergoline (this is to control prolactin induced gyno, right?).
The person I get my gear from is a very respected supplier here in Norway, and he says that 200mg a week of tren would likely not cause any significant sides other than possibly a bit of night sweats.
However, it’s good to have more than one opinion. It’s very tempting of course, since I get it for free, but I will read more about it. Maybe I will just go with test and drol and save it for later.
I am really looking forward to this. Will be very interesting to compare a “real” cycle to my previous oral-only cycles.
[quote]balisong wrote:
Ok guys I hear you. Will definitely do more research regarding tren, and look into cabergoline (this is to control prolactin induced gyno, right?).
The person I get my gear from is a very respected supplier here in Norway, and he says that 200mg a week of tren would likely not cause any significant sides other than possibly a bit of night sweats.
However, it’s good to have more than one opinion. It’s very tempting of course, since I get it for free, but I will read more about it. Maybe I will just go with test and drol and save it for later.
I am really looking forward to this. Will be very interesting to compare a “real” cycle to my previous oral-only cycles.
[/quote]
I think when it comes to using tren in a first injectable cycle it is just how prepared you are.
I used tren in my first cycle period, but it was acetate, at the time I probably wouldn’t have used enanthate.
Either way night sweats was the only pain in the arse side, i did notice that towards the end of my six weeks the guy downstairs wasn’t quite as hard but no worries.
my blood pressure went up considerably, my aggression was up like crazy as well. I also felt very lethargic and just a general crappy feeling.
Cabergoline is used to control prolactin which can do more damage than just assist in causing gyno.
There is also an inverse relationship between prolactin and dopamine. That means elevated prolactin = reduced dopamine. Reduced dopamine = crappy feeling (as DG so elequently puts it)
Quote from wikipedia:
Dopamine is also a neurohormone released by the hypothalamus. Its main function as a hormone is to inhibit the release of prolactin from the anterior lobe of the pituitary.
No on the test and tren? WTF! The experience will vary from user but I wouldn’t dismiss the idea. Being a survivor, I can only sing praises for the power of this combo. My caber sat in my drawer and I never used it. The bulk of the sides were controlled with my AI and enough nolva to treat a clinic. My only complains were like Gerdo, the night sweats, fucked up nightmares, and insane bicep and low back pumps. Aggression in the gym was insane. I blew up literally. Dbol also contributed greatly on that aspect though. I can’t wait for my next batch of the stuff. Educate yourself on it, obtain all the necessary aids, and go for it.
I have read up on it a bit.
I must say, at 200mg a week, from what I can tell the sides will likely not be too severe.
And it’s free! And I wanna use it! Hehe…
Night sweats I can handle.
I am more concerned about the man downstairs not wanting to get up in the morning (or whenever!) but will 500mg a week of testo not help a bit in that department?
50mg-75mg EOD so 200-300mg/week. This shouldn’t matter to you though. You can’t have the “well shit that dude was taking 300mg/week on his first bout with it and he came out fine so imma do the same” mentality.
I started on the high end due to what I thought was underdosage due to the homemade factor of the tren. I was horribly mistaken… Thats all that I have to say about that.
I am not looking to justify my own use of tren, just looking for experiences from people who have used it.
And sides are dosage-related to some extent i would think.
I am thinking of using tren from week 2 to week 9 only, to make sure the test E is ahead of the tren in my system. Also stopping the tren well before the test E as tren is more severe in terms of shutdown from what Ive read.
[quote]balisong wrote:
I am not looking to justify my own use of tren, just looking for experiences from people who have used it.
And sides are dosage-related to some extent i would think.
I am thinking of using tren from week 2 to week 9 only, to make sure the test E is ahead of the tren in my system. Also stopping the tren well before the test E as tren is more severe in terms of shutdown from what Ive read.
[/quote]
I think what GB meant was that just because he didn’t get sides at his dose doesn’t mean you won’t know what I mean? lol Since every drug affects people differently.
I think you could start the test/tren at the same time being they are both Enanthate Esters, but your theory of making sure the test kicks in isn’t a bad one I’d definitely kill the tren 2-3 weeks prior to killing the test at least.
Again just be sure to do a little research on Prolactin, Cabergoline, Bromocriptine…it’s also confusing as hell, but the effects of estrogen/progesterone/prolactin all together.
Since Tren is known to cause prolactin increases in the body it’s good to know your enemies game plan. lol
I’d definitely kill the tren 2-3 weeks prior to killing the test at least.