Will do.
[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
I think what GB meant was that just because he didn’t get sides at his dose doesn’t mean you won’t know what I mean? lol Since every drug affects people differently.
[/quote]
This seems to be more true with tren than with any other compound I can think of. Individual experiences are all over the place. That’s one of the main reasons I would never, ever recommend the enanthate ester for a first cycle of tren. There’s just too much potential for trouble. You might react terrifically (in all honestly in terms of benefits received you almost certainly will), but you might end up being one of the horror stories I’ve read.
In any case, if you are determined to use it your first go around do yourself a favor and get ahold of some pharmaceutical grade cabergoline so that if you do happen to get the really scary sides you can do something about it.
I don’t know if it’s been mentioned here but your typical AI or SERM will do nothing to stop prolactin induced gyno, and with the enanthate ester, if this arises without your being ready for it, you are almost certain to be stuck with unwanted breast tissue when it’s all over. Not to mention a fucked up hormonal panel and the myriad problems that come with that.
An AI will prevent any gyno - and by prolactin induced gyno, do you mean lactation Cortes?
An AI will stop gynocomastia - the growth of the mammary in men.
Estrogen is needed for this to happen.
I suspect estrogen is needed for lactation too…
An AI will always go a very long way towards stopping and preventing lactation and gyno from the addition of 19Nors to a cycle containing aromatisable AAS.
The caber will obviously reduce further chance of it occuring but more importantly (as the gyno is already under control) it will help with the lowered libido many suffer.
Brook
[quote] Brook wrote:
An AI will prevent any gyno - and by prolactin induced gyno, do you mean lactation Cortes?
An AI will stop gynocomastia - the growth of the mammary in men.
Estrogen is needed for this to happen.
I suspect estrogen is needed for lactation too…
An AI will always go a very long way towards stopping and preventing lactation and gyno from the addition of 19Nors to a cycle containing aromatisable AAS.
The caber will obviously reduce further chance of it occuring but more importantly (as the gyno is already under control) it will help with the lowered libido many suffer.
Brook[/quote]
I don’t disagree with this.
I don’t have any hard evidence for it, but from personal experience and the accounts of many others, it seems to be really, really difficult to reverse prolactin induced gyno (lactation plus the growth of breast tissue) once it starts. Letrozole is my drug of choice, but say goodbye to your libido for a good while afterward. This is one of the reasons why I said a “normal” AI.
I would certainly have an AI on hand over nothing, but taking care of the elevated prolactin seems to be the best and most immediate solution in the case of 19nors, without resorting to such drastic and unpleasant measures.
Hm… I can’t get a hold of caber from my source. He assures me that arimidex will be enough (and having nolva ready) to prevent gyno at a low dose of tren.
Also, won’t 500mg EW of testo prevent loss of libido to a significant degree? Maybe I should add in some proviron?
[quote]balisong wrote:
Hm… I can’t get a hold of caber from my source. He assures me that arimidex will be enough (and having nolva ready) to prevent gyno at a low dose of tren.
Also, won’t 500mg EW of testo prevent loss of libido to a significant degree? Maybe I should add in some proviron?[/quote]
Test might not keep your libido up if tren shuts you down that hard. While I was shooting 700mg/wk prop and 350mg/wk tren ace I was starting to notice some negative effects towards libido. I was still fine but I went from wanting to hump everything in site the first few weeks to not being able to get as hard as normal by week 6. After I dropped the tren and added masteron I was perfectly fine and now fine post cycle.
Proviron is a good call with any test cycle imo…
Caber might not be necessary but ESPECIALLY since you have the enanthate ester I’d really try and dig some up.
Nolva probably won’t do a damn bit of good at stopping/preventing tren induced gyno.
Your best bet is to have some strong AI on hand Adex/letro, etc and to get the caber. Without the caber controlling Estrogen will more than likely protect you from gyno but you never know. All the other horror sides from tren can be controlled by nothing else besides cabergoline or bromocriptine. Bromo tends to make people feel like crap for the most part tho so many recommend cabaser/dostinex or any form of cabergoline in a tablet/pill form. The liquid is bunk.
DG
I second Gerdo on that one, no amount of test brought back the mojo. I didn’t really care, but if opportunity struck I would be in a bind. Probably have to pop some cialis or something. Upon discontinuation, I brought sexy back harder than Justin Timberlake. I wouldn’t have messed with an enanthate ester. Thats just asking for it on your first bout.
But, but , but…
Hm… Okay I guess i should give some serious consideration to dropping the tren altogether, free or not.
So, say I drop the tren. I haven’t quite decided yet, but I just might.
I have enough test E to run 750mg EW if I run 10 weeks instead of 12.
week 1-10 test e, 750mg EW
week 4-8 anadrol 50mg ED
week 1-12 adex 0,25mg ED or EOD
SERM PCT: week 12-16 nolva 20mg ED.
Nolva on hand in case during cycle.
Thoughts on this revised cycle? In your experience, is it better to go 10 weeks at 750 of test or will 12 weeks at 500 yield better results?
Is recovery much harder after 12 weeks as opposed to 10?
Should I just go with 10 weeks at 500 EW of test?
questions questions…
[quote]balisong wrote:
So, say I drop the tren. I haven’t quite decided yet, but I just might.
I have enough test E to run 750mg EW if I run 10 weeks instead of 12.
week 1-10 test e, 750mg EW
week 4-8 anadrol 50mg ED
week 1-12 adex 0,25mg ED or EOD
SERM PCT: week 12-16 nolva 20mg ED.
Nolva on hand in case during cycle.
Thoughts on this revised cycle? In your experience, is it better to go 10 weeks at 750 of test or will 12 weeks at 500 yield better results?
Is recovery much harder after 12 weeks as opposed to 10?
Should I just go with 10 weeks at 500 EW of test?
questions questions…
[/quote]
10 weeks @ 750 is better than 12 weeks @ 500.
Whether you go with 500 for ten weeks or twelve is a personal choice. If this is your first injectable cycle you will probably make good gains from 500mg/wk.
The revised cycle looks good IMO
Well, I still haven’t ruled out the tren completely, as strength increase is very appealing to me (surprise surprise!) but I have also recently hooked up with a wonderful female and “tren-dick” sounds very unwelcome.
I guess test E at 750mg (without the tren) would give a boost in libido, so I might just jo that route.
[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
I second Gerdo on that one, no amount of test brought back the mojo. I didn’t really care, but if opportunity struck I would be in a bind. Probably have to pop some cialis or something. Upon discontinuation, I brought sexy back harder than Justin Timberlake.
I wouldn’t have messed with an enanthate ester. Thats just asking for it on your first bout. [/quote]
Cialis is highly unlikely to solve the issue - as it only works if you are able to become sexually interested in the first place, from what i know and have experienced with 19-Nor AAS this is the exact issue… libido is non-existant, rather than an inability to get hard, it is not wanting to fuck. (the not getting hard comes secondary to that - proper ED is where you want to fuck but cant…)
JJ
Scary this tren stuff!
I am seriously thinking of dropping it.
Test and drol should be pretty safe though, right?
Or I might just risk it… maybe I’ll flip a coin! hehe.
[quote]balisong wrote:
Scary this tren stuff!
I am seriously thinking of dropping it.
Test and drol should be pretty safe though, right?
Or I might just risk it… maybe I’ll flip a coin! hehe.[/quote]
I’d say if you can get some caber or bromo then go for it with the tren.
if not find some tren acetate to run and assess your body’s reaction.
or just don’t do it. It’s not that tren isn’t a good idea, its that tren + not knowing how you react isn’t a good idea imo.
Which is why I think advising test/deca for peoples first cycles is not a good idea…just because we dont’ know how they will react to DECA. lol my opinion of course…nothing against the drugs but if you don’t know how you react then it’s like playing with fire.
DG
Safe?
Bali - what do you need with safe? You were the one running top dosages of drol and dbol together!! j/k! 
I think it is time to stop talking about this and get your thumb out of your arse - and a needle in!
LOL!
Test/drol is a good cycle and perfect for a first.
Tren is rarely suitable for one of the first 4 or 5 cycles for many, due to many reasons… cost is not one of them, so the fact you get it free means jack IMO.
Get some though and save some for another time 
hehe, well there’s safe and then there’s safe!
Although crazy to a lot of people, the drol/dbol stack was something I had researched for quite a while, especially the drol part. And orals are easy to jump off if sides should be too much (at least the noticable sides).
Going limp downstairs sounds pretty shitty to me, and unless I get hold of some cabergoline (which sounds like a fantastic drug by the way!) I will drop the tren i think.
Test + drol should be reasonably safe, and a bit easier to predict at least.
I will get the tren for free wether I use it or not. I have this kamikaze-part of myself that screams “use the tren no matter what!” but I try to ignore it.
I got my gear today.
3 vials of test E dosed at 350mg/ml.
1 vial of tren E dosed at 200mg/ml.
whole lotta anadrol, nolva, arimidex.
Been reading a few of Bill Roberts posts where he recommends shorter cycles, with frontloading to quickly bring up levels with enanthate.
So:
week 1-8: Test E 700mg
week 1-7: tren E 200mg
week 4-7: anadrol 100mg ED
week 1-8: adex 0.25-0.5 ED
week 10-14:nolva 20mg ED
Goal: BIGGER STRONGER FASTER.
I have no caber or bromocriptine. Would feel better if I did, but I can’t get hold of any.
I will take my chance with the tren, I read that at least the gyno inducing sides of tren should be minimal if estrogen is kept in check, as prog-gyno still need quite a bit of estro as well to develop.
Anyway, I don’t seem to be too gyno-prone from my runs combining drol and dbol. Still I will keep an eye on those nips!
Now, I want to frontload the test E (not the tren), and wanted to use B.Roberts formula for frontloading. But what really is the halflife of test E? Can I use 7 days as halflife? That would mean 350mg + 700mg, ie 1050 mg (3ml) for my frontload.
Sounds like a lot. And then 200mg (1ml) tren E to. A lot of oil, ins’t it?
Do I split this up and use half in one glute and the other half in the other glute?
Analyze this anlayze that… enough already!
Just manned up, and injected 2 ml (700mg) test E into left ventrogluteal and 1 ml(350mg) tes E plus 1ml (200mg) tren E into right ventro.
No pain!
I am off!!
I followed your last thread. You are not one to dilly dally. I get 1150mg for front load of test e and 328mg for front load of tren e. You are certainly close enough on the test e (using 8days as half-life value in each case and assuming you plan to pin 350mg test e 2x/w and 100mg tren e 2x/w).
This should be one hell of a cycle.
Yep, I hope so!
I was all set to pin upper outer glute, but since it was the first time, the ventro seemed easier to reach.
Next time will be glutes i guess… Need to work on my mobility a bit for that one.