I’m lookin towards my second cycle right now, consisting of tren/winny/eq. This is my first cycle to have androgens with the potentcy of tren. I’m thinking aromatization in my case should be very little, if any. I don’t have any dosages planned out yet, but it’s not gonna be huge. Feel free to put up some ideal dosage advice too. Peace
I left out my main question which was how to go about the ancillaries. Should I plan on consistent usage or just as a back up.
Having Nolva on hand would be sufficient enough. As far as the dosages, you construct the cycle, week by week dosages and we will critique it for you, O.K?
I’ve got this in my head:
100mg tren ed (8weeks)
50mg winny ed (6weeks)
500mgs/wk EQ (8weeks)
I’m also thinking I could frontload 1000 mgs the first week on the EQ.
Over a gram per week for a second cycle? 100mg/ED of Tren? I don’t think even our resident Trenmonster (aka Drago1) does that much tren and he’s close to 10 feet tall and (allegedly) done well over 3,000 cycles.
Tell us what your first cycle looked like and what you gained off it.
6’1", 185lbs, 18%BF, 2 years training? Is that correct?
Well I think the cycle is a pretty good. Here’s what I think you should try though:
Tren 100mg EOD first 6 weeks
Winny 50 mg ED first 6 weeks
Equipoise 1000mg every week first 4 weeks
Tren 100mg ed last 2 weeks of cycle.
Since you are using 2 class 1 steroids -tren and eq, you don’t need to do as much tren. Instead since Eq is a very long acting steroid it is wiser to front your entire cycle by week 4 - I would do it by week three but I realize thats a lot of oil to inject.
This way as the Eq levels drop off near the end of your cycle, and you d/c winstrol use (I personally would use it for the full 8 weeks but that’s just me) go up to using Tren ED for the last two weeks to compensate for this - this way your blood levels of AAS remain high and you give your self the better shot at a shorter post cycle recover.
Also you might want to consider an Hcg protocol during cycle (from end of week 3 to end of week 8) And also consider getting some test enantate for the end of your cycle to help you bridge into recovery (CY’s protocol -steroids for health 2003). The reason I recomend this is because the Equipoise ester may still not have fallen off sufficiently by cycles end to facilitate htpa recovery.
Also, keep Nolvadex on hand for during and post cycle use. P-22
Thanks for the advice prisoner–you are appreciated.
Warhorse- my info is incorrect. Right now I’m close to 210 with 10 % or lower bf. I took a cycle of deca 300/winny for 8 weeks and gained 20 + lbs and kept it all. I also followed the massive eating program. Between cycles I’ve been taking phosphagen HP creatine and NO2-- you guys are right, the stuff is crap.
P22, you are one, if not THE, most knowledgeable guys around. 1000 mg EQ a week sounds excessive, as the most I have seen recommended is 500 mg per week. Don’t get me wrong Bro’, I am not arguing as I am not as well versed. I gather you have done this and it worked well. Also, I believe you said in a previous thread that 10mg of nolva per day should be sufficient (1/2 tablet?)
Katphan, Equipoise has a long half life. Because of this, When using it for a short cycle it is better to frontload as much of the drug as possible in the first 3-4 weeks. This will ensure that blood levels have dropped enough by the cycles end so that a recovery protocol can be viable.
I understand that this is a lot of AAS to be using, and this may be unfeasable if the mg/ml content is less than 100mg/ml. I am only recomending what I would do in this case, bosshogoutlaw will have to decide what dosages he wants to use. But in the end the point is if you use equipoise at all past the half way point of a short cycle i.e.6-10 weeks at cycles end your blood levels will still be way too high to restart LH production. I don’t like equipoise for short cycles as I have found it to be quite suppressive -It can take as long as 5 months for all traces of the drug to be out of your system. As for Nolvadex for this cycle I think you could get away with not using on a daily basis during, but keeping it on hand just in case. The reason for this is equipoise is a very poor aromatisable steroid, and also Winstrol is a drug that down regulates the ER,
If using Nolva though I would recomend a half a pill per day (if you have never had gyno problems) Then if your nipples became sore you could boost the dose to 20 mg per day and so on. I myself have to take 40 mg of nolva a day when on - this is without arimidex. the reason for this is because I once got stuck with some fake nolvadex and developed some gyno (which is not visable but it’s there). Once you have developed the beginings of Gyno - which go away when off cycle you will always be extremely sensitive to getting it again when you go back on. The only cure is to have the glands removed.
I highly regard P22s opinion.
But in this case I disagree on a couple of points. I would not do the tren eod either way.
I think that would be wasting good drugs. I also wouldn’t do the tren with the EQ for any other reason then to cut down on injection frequency or atleast volume.
This being the case I’d probably either elect to use the tren or eq separately.
That said, if your insisting then one idea would be to frontload the eq as planned and frontload the tren and use the tren for the first 2 weeks to kick the cycle off. Eq is very slow in response time. I mean like weeks before I even know I am on something. Then discontinue until your last 2-4 weeks having discontinued the eq.
Another would be to lower dosages. Personaly I’d probably do something like 500mgs eq with 50 or 75 mgs tren ed. And either 350 mgs or 700mgs of winny depending on whether its oral or injectable. Oral ED injectable eod.
Or the eq could go first then the tren. But again I would probably not do both at the same time…
If your winny is injectable 100 mgs eod. and 75 mgs ed of tren is just a bitchen cycle even with the injection frequency. Add in a little test to that and you’ll be cookin with gas. In this case you could add in maybe 200mgs of eq per week just for the collagen enhancement properties of the drug.
I did a cycle awhile back that had primo and tren thrown in together. Its true that the tren really kicked it in the ass, (I started it around the 4th week,) but its probably truer that I could have just upped either drugs dosage commesurately and had the same effect. And had it been tren it would have been cheaper.
As for ancillaries always have them on hand… That said, I’ve never heard of anyone actually getting gyno from EQ and the winny should help any latent chance of progesterone gyno from the tren. I’ve actually never heard anyone getting that either.
I respectfully disagree P-22.
First of all, this is his second cycle, not his thirty-second. I don’t think he’s need more than 800mg/wk total AAS to make great gains.
1000mg/wk of EQ? For four weeks? Have you ever tried that? To jump to such a dosage the first time on EQ is downright dangerous. The effects on red blood cell proliferation and consequent side effects would be immediate, dramatic, and due to the ester, long-lasting. I’ve posted the dangers associated with EQ (though it is my favorite AAS) on many threads.
Finally as far as aromatization, EQ aromatizes at 1/3-1/2 the rate of Test. So your 1000mg/week recommendation is equivalent (in terms of aromatization) to 500-750mg/wk test - a level where many will experience some estrogen related side effects.
Spook and Warehorse. You guys make very valid points. This is the reason why I am not too keen of equipoise for short cycles- basically because if you use it on a weekly basis for the entire cycle it is going to stay around a very long time and compromize your recovery protocol. If you frontload it you run the risk of elevating your hematocrit - I know this because I have experienced the pounding headaches! How would I do Equipoise? - in my situation where I am now competing and tend not to go off too much I would run it at 400mg/wk. Also I have used a tren eod combined with Deca every 4th day and experienced good gains. The explaination for this is that the long acting class one will help even out the peaks and valleys in the shortacting class one. There is many different ways to skin the cat however, and I think in this situation maybe the cycle should go like this:
Equipoise 200mg/wk - 400 front d/c@wk6
Tren 75mg e.d
Winstrol 50mg injected or 75mg oral/day
(I would personally do this for the full 8 wks but if you want to keep it to 6 wks to ensure avoiding liver sides then do it the from week 3-week 8.
nolva on hand
Sorry guys I do tend to get carried away on the dosages sometimes, and forget That my first cycle at the peak week contained only 730mg/wk, and I gained 25 lbs!
Yeah I’ll buy that!
That would be a good plan.
great thread! ill be using some of these ideas in the future.