Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
501

[quote]Quadzilla4425 wrote:

[quote]Jaynick77 wrote:

[quote]Quadzilla4425 wrote:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]Quadzilla4425 wrote:
still leaning out despite eating 3300 - 3900 cals a day [/quote]

i hate you ;)[/quote]

ha ha ha lol sorry bud but the weight is just not going up. If anything this week I think I’ll be at the same weight as I was last Saturday on the official weigh in day. Again body and strength are doing fine now if I could just lower my food bill lol
[/quote]

That’s awesome. Did you start off trying to cut on AD? How long did it take you to get your bodyfat down? [/quote]

CUT!!! lol Gosh NO!!! lol You see I was leaned out before I started as I dropped a lot of fat when I had to travel over to Eastern Canada for the Nationals. I’m a Powerlifter and I really don’t care if I have a 6 pack or anything like that as long as when I make weight I’m increasing the load on the bar year to year. But like I said I dropped a lot so I could enjoy some food before the comp and not have to worry about blowing over on weigh in. Ended up coming in way!! to lean and ripped but I kicked ass so all is good lol. So I had a shot at Team Canada for the Masters this Sept so I had to keep my BF in check just in case. As it turns out I just missed the team, oh well next year (:.

So after that it was “Off Season” time to eat but I came across the AD just before I started to pig out sort of speak. So yes the first 12 days I lost all the water weight and all that stuff but after that the weight kept on coming off and at one point I’m like OK should I give up PL and move to BB and really drop the BF? . . NOT! PL for life! lol

So I have slowly been adding cals per week and still by the time I weigh in again I’m either the same or slightly below. But this is the fun of the diet the experimenting part. All I know is people at work are like WTF happened to you? and what are you doing different this season, usually your fat by now!

I find the longer I’m on this AD thing the better pumps I get all week long. On Wednesday honestly I thought I was going to explode and I think I might start to sell my extra energy on Ebay or something lol

All I have to say is if someone can’t lose weight on this diet then they are screwing something up!!!

My buddy is on it and he was not losing weight that much as he is trying to cut. so I went over his diet . . . yup he way!!! over and fell for the number one mistake . . chicken wing sauce got him along with his so called low fat (high carb) salad dressing . . so his new name is Sauce Man . . he has since started over on the diet and will do his homework from here on in.

Sorry for the novel guys and gals if any are on here . . . well would you look at that its time for another yummy meal!!!
[/quote]

That’s great to hear. I feel amazing during my Mon, Tue, Wed workouts for sure then I feel a little more worn down come Thu and Fri, although I’ve only been doing this for like 5 or 6 weeks now. Thu / Fri I take a quarter serving of Surge Workout Fuel with two servings of MAG-10 to help get me over the hump. Saturday I end-up taking like a 1 1/2 full servings of Surge Workout Fuel since it’s one of my carb-up days and have a pretty awesome workout.

@ Anybody: What kind of peri-workout nutrition do you take on non-carb-up workout days? Mon-Wed I take 2 servings of MAG-10, Thu & Fri I take a quarter serving of Surge Workout Fuel with 2 servings of MAG-10 and Sat I take 1 1/2 servings of Surge Workout Fuel with 1 serving of MAG-10. This morning I woke up feeling a little hungry and wasn’t sure what to do so I popped a serving of Olive Oil too just for the calories.

I’d love to hear how others handle peri-workout nutrition.

502

I’ve found that steak and EVOO are a great Pre-workout. I eat about an hour or so before hitting the gym. Then down 60g of whey after. Followed by a solid meal an hour or so latter. The next thing I’m adding is 20-40g BCAA during the workout. I’ve heard amazing things about BCAA and AD.

503

Workout nutrition from DH back in 06

Peri-workout nutrition.

I have a few protocols that I think will work well. We’ll call them “economy”, “middle class”, “theoretical bliss”, and “Doc D’s Bomb”. There are a few others that I may throw out for specific purpose should the need arise.

Economy:

45 mins prior to training:
Some whey concentrate (say 25-40g)
Some caseinate (say 10g or so)

Post workout(immediately or soon after)
Same as above with 10-20g of heavy whipping cream.

This should allow the aminos to be in the blood stream during the workout, signaling the body not to cannibalize muscle but rather use an easily utilized supply already. Then another hit after the workout for more protein synthesis.

Middle Class:
Whey isolate about 30 mins before (say 20g). Can add a little Milk Isolate or Micellar Caseinate too.

Whey isolate during (say 20g)

Post:
Whey isolate (20g)
Milk isolate or Micellar Caseinate(20g)
with 10-20g of heavy whipping cream.

Isolate is a little “cleaner” and faster and should be easy enough on the gut to ingest during. This should saturate your system with AA’s during the “hot times”. Milk Isolate gives a lttle casein which is very anticatabolic and at this small level shouldn’t slow down the overall effect too much. You’ll be covering the anabolic and anti-catabolic zones nicely.

Theoretical Bliss:

20-30 minutes prior
Hydrolyzed Whey (10g)
Whey Isolate (10g) for taste

Same during training

Post:
Hydrolyzed Whey (25g)
Whey Isolate (25g)
with 10-20g of heavy whipping cream.

Doc D’s Bomb:
Same as “theoretical bliss” but use the “Amino” product after for what Mauro says is the best “square wave” increase in the hyperaminoacidemia effect.

Now, before I set off a rabid argument over all this, remember that we are in an entirely different metabolic set than others. We will be using hyperaminoacidemia to stimulate insulin to an acceptable level to increase protein synthesis. You only need CHO if you are a CHO burner. Unnecessary for us.

IF you must, after 3 solid months on the diet WITHOUT post workout CHO, you may try using about 20g of glucose/maltodextrin or even plain old sugar ONLY on post workout. Never on pre or you’ll halt fat loss in it’s tracks. I really prefer to allow the body to continue to burn fat after the workout, and to have it get it’s glycogen from gluconeogeneisis from the breakdown of triglycerides. This is optimal.

I do not, and personally don’t suggest using any more than 20g of simple fast CHO to assist in insulin response after the workout. You DO NOT need it. You really don’t. The experts, many of whom I respect, are telling you what is necessary for the carb burners. It is a conditional observation. This is NOT your condition so it does not pan out the same for you. If you saturate the system with aminos from properly timed protein sources, you’ll get enough of an insulin response to get the protein synthesis we are looking for AND keep burning fat.

Best,
DH

Oh and in my honest opinion, you might only see a 10-20% improvement from the “least” to the “best” of the above scenarios. What that might mean is 2lbs more muscle in a years time. Don’t sweat it if you can only afford economy. You’re still doing great. The dietary structure of the AD is vastly more important.

To get a better understanding of this check out Dave Barr’s Top 10 Myths article. Protein synthesis is elevated for 24-48 hours after a workout. The famous “window” is not nearly as important as continuous feeding of the proper foods. That is what we are doing on the AD. The real focus should be on the anabolic effects of the AD. This is why frequent training augments the AD. You are in a state of perpetual protein synthesis stimulation, and are constantly giving the body the right macros for growth and fat loss. Post workout nutrition is no more important than breakfast and not much more so than standard meals.

REMEMBER THIS: (and forget all else if you want. Really.)

The big picture is MUCH more important than this one “meal” window of opportunity. Never forget that. Our CHO load, which works ONLY when we follow the AD with the bare minimum of CHO intake, is the monster insulin surge for growth that others don’t get. Then the bare bones CHO allows the week to set our T, GH, insulin, etc.. in both a growth AND fat loss mode. Don’t screw this up for a “myth” that we’ve been fed.

Y’all are welcome :wink:

J. K

504

Interesting question for you AD guru’s. I’m 6’1 230, and have used the AD for the last two years on and off. Havent really stuck to it since getting married last july, recently started it back on July 25th, following the anabolic solution for BB’er. I had 1 carb up meal last saturday night, which was a massacre at a thai place.

Anyway, I have not lost a single lb in over two weeks. I had very metallic/odd taste in my mouth the second day, and have felt great since. I do cardio for 30 min every morning, only burning around 400cal keeping heart rate under 130 (around 90 or so).

I am confused being that my strength is increasing rather nicely, and the mirror shows love handle/kidney fat tightening up a bit. The thing that gets me is my wife says I defintely look bigger and a bit leaner than before.

Is it possible that I am eating just enough to do a slow recomp? Can you really build muscle and lost fat at the same time? I was always a firm believer of you cant build muscle without extra cals (and fat). I was planning on cutting 500cal out but Im only eating around 3000 with a 50/50 pro/fat split.

Any ideas?

505

[quote]James Keeton wrote:
Workout nutrition from DH back in 06

Peri-workout nutrition.

I have a few protocols that I think will work well. We’ll call them “economy”, “middle class”, “theoretical bliss”, and “Doc D’s Bomb”. There are a few others that I may throw out for specific purpose should the need arise.

Economy:

45 mins prior to training:
Some whey concentrate (say 25-40g)
Some caseinate (say 10g or so)

Post workout(immediately or soon after)
Same as above with 10-20g of heavy whipping cream.

This should allow the aminos to be in the blood stream during the workout, signaling the body not to cannibalize muscle but rather use an easily utilized supply already. Then another hit after the workout for more protein synthesis.

Middle Class:
Whey isolate about 30 mins before (say 20g). Can add a little Milk Isolate or Micellar Caseinate too.

Whey isolate during (say 20g)

Post:
Whey isolate (20g)
Milk isolate or Micellar Caseinate(20g)
with 10-20g of heavy whipping cream.

Isolate is a little “cleaner” and faster and should be easy enough on the gut to ingest during. This should saturate your system with AA’s during the “hot times”. Milk Isolate gives a lttle casein which is very anticatabolic and at this small level shouldn’t slow down the overall effect too much. You’ll be covering the anabolic and anti-catabolic zones nicely.

Theoretical Bliss:

20-30 minutes prior
Hydrolyzed Whey (10g)
Whey Isolate (10g) for taste

Same during training

Post:
Hydrolyzed Whey (25g)
Whey Isolate (25g)
with 10-20g of heavy whipping cream.

Doc D’s Bomb:
Same as “theoretical bliss” but use the “Amino” product after for what Mauro says is the best “square wave” increase in the hyperaminoacidemia effect.

Now, before I set off a rabid argument over all this, remember that we are in an entirely different metabolic set than others. We will be using hyperaminoacidemia to stimulate insulin to an acceptable level to increase protein synthesis. You only need CHO if you are a CHO burner. Unnecessary for us.

IF you must, after 3 solid months on the diet WITHOUT post workout CHO, you may try using about 20g of glucose/maltodextrin or even plain old sugar ONLY on post workout. Never on pre or you’ll halt fat loss in it’s tracks. I really prefer to allow the body to continue to burn fat after the workout, and to have it get it’s glycogen from gluconeogeneisis from the breakdown of triglycerides. This is optimal.

I do not, and personally don’t suggest using any more than 20g of simple fast CHO to assist in insulin response after the workout. You DO NOT need it. You really don’t. The experts, many of whom I respect, are telling you what is necessary for the carb burners. It is a conditional observation. This is NOT your condition so it does not pan out the same for you. If you saturate the system with aminos from properly timed protein sources, you’ll get enough of an insulin response to get the protein synthesis we are looking for AND keep burning fat.

Best,
DH

Oh and in my honest opinion, you might only see a 10-20% improvement from the “least” to the “best” of the above scenarios. What that might mean is 2lbs more muscle in a years time. Don’t sweat it if you can only afford economy. You’re still doing great. The dietary structure of the AD is vastly more important.

To get a better understanding of this check out Dave Barr’s Top 10 Myths article. Protein synthesis is elevated for 24-48 hours after a workout. The famous “window” is not nearly as important as continuous feeding of the proper foods. That is what we are doing on the AD. The real focus should be on the anabolic effects of the AD. This is why frequent training augments the AD. You are in a state of perpetual protein synthesis stimulation, and are constantly giving the body the right macros for growth and fat loss. Post workout nutrition is no more important than breakfast and not much more so than standard meals.

REMEMBER THIS: (and forget all else if you want. Really.)

The big picture is MUCH more important than this one “meal” window of opportunity. Never forget that. Our CHO load, which works ONLY when we follow the AD with the bare minimum of CHO intake, is the monster insulin surge for growth that others don’t get. Then the bare bones CHO allows the week to set our T, GH, insulin, etc.. in both a growth AND fat loss mode. Don’t screw this up for a “myth” that we’ve been fed.

Y’all are welcome :wink:

J. Keeton[/quote]

That looks good but I read that ingesting fats pwo decreases gh serums lvls

506

hey everyone i was looking at starting the anabolic diet this week on monday tomorrow or monday ill go shopping for it but my question is why is the protein so low on the carb up, doesnt carbs + fat with little protein make fat gains?? Also should you be trainning on the carb up days or no?

507

[quote]thomassj wrote:
hey everyone i was looking at starting the anabolic diet this week on monday tomorrow or monday ill go shopping for it but my question is why is the protein so low on the carb up, doesnt carbs + fat with little protein make fat gains?? Also should you be trainning on the carb up days or no?[/quote]

The short answer to your first question is “no.” If you’re going to do this you should honestly read the book. You can find it online by Googling, Anabolic Diet PDF. The book will make everything very clear for you.

Train whenever you want. I train six days a week in the morning and one training day does put me training on a carb-up day. You will WANT to make sure that you train on the 3 days follow-ing your carb-up days because you will have very good energy from the carb-up days.

508

i have the book. My problem is i do a 4 day lower+abs/upper splitso idk how id work it in. 2 days on 1 day off 2 days on 2 days off is my current cycle.

509

[quote]thomassj wrote:
i have the book. My problem is i do a 4 day lower+abs/upper splitso idk how id work it in. 2 days on 1 day off 2 days on 2 days off is my current cycle.[/quote]

Your training split should be fine on this diet. You might feel a little tired at the end of the week but all-in-all you should be fine.

Just to give you an idea here’s my

  • Diet plan: Mon - Fri (Low Carb) / Sat & Sun (Carb-Up)
    CT’s Superhero Complex
  • Mon / Thu: Overhead Press & Squat
  • Tue / Fri: Bench Press & Deadlift
  • Wed / Sat: Back and Bi’s
  • Sun: Usually off or I go for a light jog
510

for me its
mon-off/cardio
tues-lower + abs
wed-upper
thurs-off/cardio
fri-lower + abs
sat-upper
sun-rest

511

[quote]thomassj wrote:
for me its
mon-off/cardio
tues-lower + abs
wed-upper
thurs-off/cardio
fri-lower + abs
sat-upper
sun-rest[/quote]

You should be fine. The only suggestion I would have is that you move your Upper to Monday and cardio Wed maybe. Of course I’m assuming that your carb-up days are Sat/Sun. If that’s correct then you will definitely want to workout Monday and push that day off to Thursday maybe and then do your Fri / Sat workouts.

512

[quote]Jaynick77 wrote:

[quote]thomassj wrote:
for me its
mon-off/cardio
tues-lower + abs
wed-upper
thurs-off/cardio
fri-lower + abs
sat-upper
sun-rest[/quote]

You should be fine. The only suggestion I would have is that you move your Upper to Monday and cardio Wed maybe. Of course I’m assuming that your carb-up days are Sat/Sun. If that’s correct then you will definitely want to workout Monday and push that day off to Thursday maybe and then do your Fri / Sat workouts. [/quote]
I would leave as is and have the carb up sun/mon. Im skipping the maintenance phase because iwanna cut and ive done this diet before but stopped becasue of basketball season, ill start with around 2200-2400 calories and go from there…what is the difference between this and keto i dont get it also can i still use muscle pharm assault before my workout it has 9 grams of carbs i assume its fine but im jw/

513

How are other fellow ectomorph powerlifters doing with this diet?

I have been on the diet for the last 6 weeks (I think) and even though it is doing great for my body composition, my training sessions have been getting worse, as well as my sleep and my training focus.

I think I am going to give this up and go back to what has worked for me in the past… :frowning:

514

[quote]vjoe wrote:
How are other fellow ectomorph powerlifters doing with this diet?

I have been on the diet for the last 6 weeks (I think) and even though it is doing great for my body composition, my training sessions have been getting worse, as well as my sleep and my training focus.

I think I am going to give this up and go back to what has worked for me in the past… :([/quote]

Try eating more calories. My strength has only gone up on this diet. Dr. D himself was a world class powerlifter.

If your workouts are suffering eat more calories on the weekdays and carb-ups. Also I’d make sure to put your ME days on Monday-Wednesday. (that is if you carb up on sat-sun)

Just my 2 cents…
J K

515

I am already on over 5000kcals a day and I can’t put on weight…

516

so technically on the AD you can eat carbs as long as there under 30 grams, you can eat a peice of bread it shows in the book that thats an exceptable food?

517

[quote]vjoe wrote:
I am already on over 5000kcals a day and I can’t put on weight…[/quote]

What are your carb loads like? You may be a candidate for “extreme variance” (ie huge carb loads) or mid week carb spikes on wednessdays. Personally, I’d up your calories a little though the week and alot on the carb loads and see what happens… Once again that’s just an opinion though. If you keep playing around with it all you’ll find something that works. This diet is like a mini science experiment. It takes time to figure it out, but once you know what works for you it’s golden. Keep a written log with what you eat and hoe you feel… This will go a long way.

Good luck,
J K

518

[quote]James Keeton wrote:

[quote]vjoe wrote:
I am already on over 5000kcals a day and I can’t put on weight…[/quote]

What are your carb loads like? You may be a candidate for “extreme variance” (ie huge carb loads) or mid week carb spikes on wednessdays. Personally, I’d up your calories a little though the week and alot on the carb loads and see what happens… Once again that’s just an opinion though. If you keep playing around with it all you’ll find something that works. This diet is like a mini science experiment. It takes time to figure it out, but once you know what works for you it’s golden. Keep a written log with what you eat and hoe you feel… This will go a long way.

Good luck,
J Keeton[/quote]

OK so here is my 2 cents as well . . . I agree in some part it can be difficult to gain mass on this diet UNTILL you find what works for you.

Now is saying that yes in the begining I followed it to a T and man it works like my posts have stated, no side and I fell amazing but weight was just not going up BUT strength was so I was happy. But I started doing a few experiments on my carb ups and when I say I carb up I mean CARB UP. I have 3 huge shakes with half the fridge in them throughout the day and then a tub of potato salad as well as my normal 3 carb meals and thay was helping and then I just started my mid week carb up (shhh and yes I know it was slightly early) and all is well and weight is finally slowly coming up and BF for now is staying the same by final weigh in on Saturdays.

So yes play around with it and have fun. My fat intake is also higher than what the book states and its working for me. . . so I guess you could say its a good book but not the law once you pay your dues for a bit . . . just my thoughts.

As for strenght my bench is coming up nicely but my squat is slow.

My other suggestion is to not give up just yet. If your going to go back to the normal type of diet why not try a few experiements before kicking the AD to the curb.

Good Luck

519

I’m thinking about trying leucine on this diet, but i’ve heard dissuading things about leucine and fats. I’ve used BCAA’s while training and have had not problems thus far. Does anybody have any knowledge on the subject?

520

2 questions:
Im jumping right into the cutting phase with roughly 60-65% fats, 30-35% protein and usually 20-30 grams of carbs. Is it ok to go right into the cutting phase? Im pretty sure it’ll be fine prolly not as pleasent but fine
Are the carb up calories the same as your calories during mon-fri?