[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Whats LISS?
[/quote]
Low Intensity Steady State
cardio
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Hey whats up 
Hows your carbing going? I ate a bunch of crap like pancakes and fastfood⊠I think multi grain or whole grain pastas might be the way to get the most out of the weekend carb ups. Otherwise you will be eating a troth full of vegies all day.[/quote]
Itâs going great, Iâm seeing some awesome visible hypertrophy gains and strength increases, still staying lean, and am consistently up in weight now.
A few years of this should produce some awesome results.
I wouldnât touch pasta but thats just me, my body hates gluten now.
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Workout-wise, yes you want to take full advantage of the first 2-3 days after your carb up. âMake hay while the sun is shiningâ as the old saying goes. I like your ideas about switching your days around. You are strong as hell on monday and tuesday and should take full advantage of that. For a bodybuilding-type split, I would probably set it up where you rotate the bodyparts through those two days⊠maybe an ABCA 3 way training 4 times a week or something. You get the gist- just try to give all the bodyparts a little share of the monday action. But if not, its fine. I trained without rotating and it still worked great.
I am sure that optimizing carbs would lead to better results. Bodyopus has a really good theorhetical breakdown of an âoptimizedâ weekend for this type of diet. Its definitely worth a read if you are interested in doing the diet the absolute best it can be done. I believe he starts off with glucose polymer drinks and continues through changing to complex carbs. Same premise I laid out, but a lot more detail.
[/quote]
x2 on Bodyopus. Bodyopus, The Ketogenic Diet, and Ultimate Diet 2.0 are required reading (in addition to The AD, of course) for those interested in cyclical ketogenic diets.
Iâm feeling long-winded today, so hereâs my take on training with a CKD:
As far as training goes, you could also follow a simple 2 day split, 4 days per week. Program your workouts so that your heavy, low rep training occurs in the two days after the carb up and shift the nature of the second half of the week more towards higher TUT, more moderate loads, higher volume, and lactate accumulation. This way you are able to train he entire body each week during the optimized post-refeed period when you should be able to take advantage of glycogen supercompensation and lots of bloat (positive leverages). The higher volume lactate work is absolutely brutal, but will significantly deplete muscle glycogen and upregulate non-insulin mediated glycogen storage if done correctly. This should increase the âqualityâ and effectiveness of the carb-up.
SoâŠ
Sunday- 45-60 minutes LISS to help re-establish ketosis
Monday- Heavy Chest/Shoulders/Tris/Bis- 3-5 sets of 3-6 reps between 80-90% 1rm per body part
Tuesday- Heavy Legs/Back- same loading as Monday
Wednesday- rest/LISS (goal dependent)
Thursday- Chest/Shoulders/Tris/Bis- 8-10 sets of 10-15 reps per body part. Set length should average out to about 45-60 seconds, so lighter loads and slow negatives. If the muscle isnât burning, youâre not using enough weight or youâre going too fast.
Friday- Legs/Back- same loading as Thursday.
Saturday- Refeed, no training
Just thinking âout loudâ.[/quote]
i completely agree. i have been doing pretty much the above template for the last 6-8 weeks or so and recomping quite nicely[/quote]
So I take it Saturday is the only carb up day with this kind of system? Its like really hard to get 30g of carb I ussually end up like 35-40 for the day⊠You think that makes a big difference? Its like 1 vegie will throw the day off⊠Any tips?
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Workout-wise, yes you want to take full advantage of the first 2-3 days after your carb up. âMake hay while the sun is shiningâ as the old saying goes. I like your ideas about switching your days around. You are strong as hell on monday and tuesday and should take full advantage of that. For a bodybuilding-type split, I would probably set it up where you rotate the bodyparts through those two days⊠maybe an ABCA 3 way training 4 times a week or something. You get the gist- just try to give all the bodyparts a little share of the monday action. But if not, its fine. I trained without rotating and it still worked great.
I am sure that optimizing carbs would lead to better results. Bodyopus has a really good theorhetical breakdown of an âoptimizedâ weekend for this type of diet. Its definitely worth a read if you are interested in doing the diet the absolute best it can be done. I believe he starts off with glucose polymer drinks and continues through changing to complex carbs. Same premise I laid out, but a lot more detail.
[/quote]
x2 on Bodyopus. Bodyopus, The Ketogenic Diet, and Ultimate Diet 2.0 are required reading (in addition to The AD, of course) for those interested in cyclical ketogenic diets.
Iâm feeling long-winded today, so hereâs my take on training with a CKD:
As far as training goes, you could also follow a simple 2 day split, 4 days per week. Program your workouts so that your heavy, low rep training occurs in the two days after the carb up and shift the nature of the second half of the week more towards higher TUT, more moderate loads, higher volume, and lactate accumulation. This way you are able to train he entire body each week during the optimized post-refeed period when you should be able to take advantage of glycogen supercompensation and lots of bloat (positive leverages). The higher volume lactate work is absolutely brutal, but will significantly deplete muscle glycogen and upregulate non-insulin mediated glycogen storage if done correctly. This should increase the âqualityâ and effectiveness of the carb-up.
SoâŠ
Sunday- 45-60 minutes LISS to help re-establish ketosis
Monday- Heavy Chest/Shoulders/Tris/Bis- 3-5 sets of 3-6 reps between 80-90% 1rm per body part
Tuesday- Heavy Legs/Back- same loading as Monday
Wednesday- rest/LISS (goal dependent)
Thursday- Chest/Shoulders/Tris/Bis- 8-10 sets of 10-15 reps per body part. Set length should average out to about 45-60 seconds, so lighter loads and slow negatives. If the muscle isnât burning, youâre not using enough weight or youâre going too fast.
Friday- Legs/Back- same loading as Thursday.
Saturday- Refeed, no training
Just thinking âout loudâ.[/quote]
i completely agree. i have been doing pretty much the above template for the last 6-8 weeks or so and recomping quite nicely[/quote]
So I take it Saturday is the only carb up day with this kind of system? Its like really hard to get 30g of carb I ussually end up like 35-40 for the day⊠You think that makes a big difference? Its like 1 vegie will throw the day off⊠Any tips?[/quote]
Are you subtracting fiber? Where most people get into trouble with going over 30g of carbs is by eating a ton of nuts and nut-byproducts like peanut butter. If you stick solely to meats, eggs, cheese, oils, and leafy green veggies, it shouldnât be difficult at all.
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Workout-wise, yes you want to take full advantage of the first 2-3 days after your carb up. âMake hay while the sun is shiningâ as the old saying goes. I like your ideas about switching your days around. You are strong as hell on monday and tuesday and should take full advantage of that. For a bodybuilding-type split, I would probably set it up where you rotate the bodyparts through those two days⊠maybe an ABCA 3 way training 4 times a week or something. You get the gist- just try to give all the bodyparts a little share of the monday action. But if not, its fine. I trained without rotating and it still worked great.
I am sure that optimizing carbs would lead to better results. Bodyopus has a really good theorhetical breakdown of an âoptimizedâ weekend for this type of diet. Its definitely worth a read if you are interested in doing the diet the absolute best it can be done. I believe he starts off with glucose polymer drinks and continues through changing to complex carbs. Same premise I laid out, but a lot more detail.
[/quote]
x2 on Bodyopus. Bodyopus, The Ketogenic Diet, and Ultimate Diet 2.0 are required reading (in addition to The AD, of course) for those interested in cyclical ketogenic diets.
Iâm feeling long-winded today, so hereâs my take on training with a CKD:
As far as training goes, you could also follow a simple 2 day split, 4 days per week. Program your workouts so that your heavy, low rep training occurs in the two days after the carb up and shift the nature of the second half of the week more towards higher TUT, more moderate loads, higher volume, and lactate accumulation. This way you are able to train he entire body each week during the optimized post-refeed period when you should be able to take advantage of glycogen supercompensation and lots of bloat (positive leverages). The higher volume lactate work is absolutely brutal, but will significantly deplete muscle glycogen and upregulate non-insulin mediated glycogen storage if done correctly. This should increase the âqualityâ and effectiveness of the carb-up.
SoâŠ
Sunday- 45-60 minutes LISS to help re-establish ketosis
Monday- Heavy Chest/Shoulders/Tris/Bis- 3-5 sets of 3-6 reps between 80-90% 1rm per body part
Tuesday- Heavy Legs/Back- same loading as Monday
Wednesday- rest/LISS (goal dependent)
Thursday- Chest/Shoulders/Tris/Bis- 8-10 sets of 10-15 reps per body part. Set length should average out to about 45-60 seconds, so lighter loads and slow negatives. If the muscle isnât burning, youâre not using enough weight or youâre going too fast.
Friday- Legs/Back- same loading as Thursday.
Saturday- Refeed, no training
Just thinking âout loudâ.[/quote]
i completely agree. i have been doing pretty much the above template for the last 6-8 weeks or so and recomping quite nicely[/quote]
So I take it Saturday is the only carb up day with this kind of system? Its like really hard to get 30g of carb I ussually end up like 35-40 for the day⊠You think that makes a big difference? Its like 1 vegie will throw the day off⊠Any tips?[/quote]
ehh i dont count green veggies i eat as much as i want but i do my high carb days on sundaysâŠjust how my schedule works
I guess Iâll throw my two cents in also since Iâve been doing dites like this for yrs.
Iâm also a big fan of the AD, and especially Body Opus. Basically ditto to everything Modok said.
I personally do better splitting my body into three days right after the carb load. First day weakest and most important body parts and trail off each day till wednesday where I do my strongest parts that need least improvement. On friday I do like doing the full body depletion type workout because I feel it helps fill me out better with the carb load on the weekend.
I tried the M T Th Fr split but but by Th and Fri I was too flat and weak to hit even my strong body parts that well.
On another note pre workout when not doing an AD I was used to using gatorade and whey with great results. And like Modok mentioned no carbs peri workout on AD. So it was tough without it but I substituted BCAAâs like the Lean Gains protocol and it worked great.
Learn your body and what works for you and just tweak the diet and routine accordingly to fit you as long as you adhere to the main principles of very low carbs on weekdays and carb load on weekend. Fits my lifestyle real well too.
Man, today has been my first carb-up day in months. PWO, I usually try to get near the 1k calories mark or so when itâs all said and done. With eggs and such, I usually donât have a hard time. I just ate 1k calories worth of whey, oatmeal, and cottage cheese. Good holy God am I full.
Which of the anabolic diet books does anyone own/recommend? Is the anabolic solution for bodybuilders the most up to date/relevant version?
Iâve been doing the AD for about nine weeks with good results (down ~14 pounds, strength remains good) but my info is all bastardized stuff pulled from this and other sites. Iâd like to pick up an actual copy of the book, as well some of the other stuff stronghold recommended.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Workout-wise, yes you want to take full advantage of the first 2-3 days after your carb up. âMake hay while the sun is shiningâ as the old saying goes. I like your ideas about switching your days around. You are strong as hell on monday and tuesday and should take full advantage of that. For a bodybuilding-type split, I would probably set it up where you rotate the bodyparts through those two days⊠maybe an ABCA 3 way training 4 times a week or something. You get the gist- just try to give all the bodyparts a little share of the monday action. But if not, its fine. I trained without rotating and it still worked great.
I am sure that optimizing carbs would lead to better results. Bodyopus has a really good theorhetical breakdown of an âoptimizedâ weekend for this type of diet. Its definitely worth a read if you are interested in doing the diet the absolute best it can be done. I believe he starts off with glucose polymer drinks and continues through changing to complex carbs. Same premise I laid out, but a lot more detail.
[/quote]
x2 on Bodyopus. Bodyopus, The Ketogenic Diet, and Ultimate Diet 2.0 are required reading (in addition to The AD, of course) for those interested in cyclical ketogenic diets.
Iâm feeling long-winded today, so hereâs my take on training with a CKD:
As far as training goes, you could also follow a simple 2 day split, 4 days per week. Program your workouts so that your heavy, low rep training occurs in the two days after the carb up and shift the nature of the second half of the week more towards higher TUT, more moderate loads, higher volume, and lactate accumulation. This way you are able to train he entire body each week during the optimized post-refeed period when you should be able to take advantage of glycogen supercompensation and lots of bloat (positive leverages). The higher volume lactate work is absolutely brutal, but will significantly deplete muscle glycogen and upregulate non-insulin mediated glycogen storage if done correctly. This should increase the âqualityâ and effectiveness of the carb-up.
SoâŠ
Sunday- 45-60 minutes LISS to help re-establish ketosis
Monday- Heavy Chest/Shoulders/Tris/Bis- 3-5 sets of 3-6 reps between 80-90% 1rm per body part
Tuesday- Heavy Legs/Back- same loading as Monday
Wednesday- rest/LISS (goal dependent)
Thursday- Chest/Shoulders/Tris/Bis- 8-10 sets of 10-15 reps per body part. Set length should average out to about 45-60 seconds, so lighter loads and slow negatives. If the muscle isnât burning, youâre not using enough weight or youâre going too fast.
Friday- Legs/Back- same loading as Thursday.
Saturday- Refeed, no training
Just thinking âout loudâ.[/quote]
i completely agree. i have been doing pretty much the above template for the last 6-8 weeks or so and recomping quite nicely[/quote]
So I take it Saturday is the only carb up day with this kind of system? Its like really hard to get 30g of carb I ussually end up like 35-40 for the day⊠You think that makes a big difference? Its like 1 vegie will throw the day off⊠Any tips?[/quote]
Are you subtracting fiber? Where most people get into trouble with going over 30g of carbs is by eating a ton of nuts and nut-byproducts like peanut butter. If you stick solely to meats, eggs, cheese, oils, and leafy green veggies, it shouldnât be difficult at all.[/quote]
I only have been eating spinach, lettuce and brocolli since they are a âsafe vegieâ. Even so if I eat more then 3 cups of these I hit 30g of carbs. At least thats what caloriecount.com says. Thats the app I use. You are right about nuts. I just get bored eating meat wraped in bacon with melted cheese. I need a side dishâŠ
AS I read Dr Dis the Anabolic diet, Body opus & Ultimate diet2 You can google them and get a good idea of what they are all about. From what Iâve seen theres a few slight modifications to the diet. For the most part its low to no carbs M-F and SA/SU carb up. As far as the workout goes Modoks idea makes the most sense and is pretty much the same thing those books say. Lift hard early in week to max carbs then toward end of week deplete.
On that note heres a fullbody depletion workout thats sure to have you feeling drained and ready for carbs its also a cool way to gauge your endurance/intensity⊠I call it the filthey 50
50 Chin Ups
50 2ft Box jumps
50 Push Press 65lb barbell
50 Burpees w Jump
50 KB Swings 70lbs
50 High Row 65lb barbell
50 Wall ball 25lb med ball
50 Sit ups 25lb med ball
50 Tricep Press 65lb dumbell
50 Bicep Curl 65lb dumbell
Do this for time mine was 41:21sec
It sucks the good thing is Im for sure depleted and its over with
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
On that note heres a fullbody depletion workout thats sure to have you feeling drained and ready for carbs its also a cool way to gauge your endurance/intensity⊠I call it the filthey 50
50 Chin Ups
50 2ft Box jumps
50 Push Press 65lb barbell
50 Burpees w Jump
50 KB Swings 70lbs
50 High Row 65lb barbell
50 Wall ball 25lb med ball
50 Sit ups 25lb med ball
50 Tricep Press 65lb dumbell
50 Bicep Curl 65lb dumbell
Do this for time mine was 41:21sec
It sucks the good thing is Im for sure depleted and its over with
[/quote]
Only issue with that sort of depletion workout is that it doesnât upregulate non-insulin mediated glycogen storage like hard resistance training does. I also think that most people on this website would much rather do the depletion/lactate workouts as lifting workouts than crossfit style workouts. I know I would go nuts only really lifting weights on monday and tuesday.
You can still get strong from stuff like that. Look at the kinda stuff Jim Jones and the Sparta workouts⊠Any how I think the AD probably works best for heavy lifting. But Iâve heard of guys that use it for other sports and do heavy lifting and just use it to lean out⊠I wonder why if just trying to lean out you need the carb phase anyhow. Once you are fat adapted you can get energy from fat for basic needsâŠ
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
You can still get strong from stuff like that. Look at the kinda stuff Jim Jones and the Sparta workouts⊠Any how I think the AD probably works best for heavy lifting. But Iâve heard of guys that use it for other sports and do heavy lifting and just use it to lean out⊠I wonder why if just trying to lean out you need the carb phase anyhow. Once you are fat adapted you can get energy from fat for basic needsâŠ[/quote]
It really sounds like you need to read the books suggested in this thread before you keep posting in this conversation, since youâre missing the point entirely.
I never said you couldnât get strong while doing that kind of stuff in your training (I will say, however, that that style of training specifically is VASTLY inferior when it comes to gaining strength and muscle). I said it probably wouldnât be optimal to train that way preceding a carb up as opposed to what I suggested earlier. The two goals of the second half of the weekâs workouts are to 1) deplete glycogen and 2) upregulate glucose uptake in muscle cells. I also think the end-of-week workouts contribute to muscle growth during the refeeding phase since itâs not like that microtrauma is totally gone in 1-2 days.
The carb up is there to provide energy for training, optimize hormonal function, and possibly allow the dieter to add (or at least) maintain muscle mass and strength during what amounts to be a net catabolic (tissue broken down for energy) period. This is in every one of those books. If you are interested in a pure ketogenic diet, which is what it sounds like youâre leaning towards, check out Lyleâs or Shelbyâs Ketogenic diet books. I will warn you that, if you insist on training in the Crossfit/Gym Jones style on a keto diet, you will learn the value of the carb up very quickly. Those workouts are highly glycogen depleting and being âfat adaptedâ doesnât change the fact that the body can only synthesize a limited amount of glycogen from triglycerides, so youâre basically creating an environment for muscle and strength loss. This is kind of a square peg/round hole thing. Keto and Cyclical Keto diets can help you become lean and muscular. Crossfit/Gym Jones can help you become lean and (somewhat) muscular. Doing both at once isnât going to make you ZOMG SUPER JAKTâŠ
Point takenâŠYeah Im just trying to soke it all in man⊠Im not so good with all the science⊠Its been trial and error for me so far⊠I will change things up and do more of a AB AB split thing here over the next week or so⊠Right now just focused on getting leaner about 3% more to drop. With that said you think its best to just not carb up and stay in keto? I havent had problems with gassing out with the Jones crossfit stuff and I hit it pretty hard???
From what I read green vegies are ok but they have some carbs. Do you guys eat vegies on this? If so about how much and what kind? Im having a hard time with keeping it bellow 30g⊠All I have is a side of brocolli or a green veggie of some sort with dinner or lunch and thats still putting over 30g⊠Is calorie count dot com wrong or should I cut vegies alltogether?
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Point takenâŠYeah Im just trying to soke it all in man⊠Im not so good with all the science⊠Its been trial and error for me so far⊠I will change things up and do more of a AB AB split thing here over the next week or so⊠Right now just focused on getting leaner about 3% more to drop. With that said you think its best to just not carb up and stay in keto? I havent had problems with gassing out with the Jones crossfit stuff and I hit it pretty hard???[/quote]
IMO⊠no. absolutely carb up at the bare MINIMUM once every 14 days, although i would personally recommend once every 7.
the carb up revs metabolism, helps with energy, reduces catabolism etc
i went the no carb route for a while (LITERALLY no carbs for months on end) and it ruined my thyroid levels
carbs are needed for T4 to T3 conversion. lower T3 will cause lower testosterone, slower metabolism and you will feel like shit.
trust me on this one
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
From what I read green vegies are ok but they have some carbs. Do you guys eat vegies on this? If so about how much and what kind? Im having a hard time with keeping it bellow 30g⊠All I have is a side of brocolli or a green veggie of some sort with dinner or lunch and thats still putting over 30g⊠Is calorie count dot com wrong or should I cut vegies alltogether? [/quote]
i personally dont worry about it and eat as much cabbage, lettuce and broccoli as i want(dont count the calories). a lot of guys do the sameâŠ
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Green vegetables are fine. Have a couple servings a day.[/quote]
For real?? Iâve been sweating over nothing all my carbs come from either spinach, salad, brocolli, sometimes avacadosâŠSo basically just ignore callcount and eat a handful or two of vegies with all my meat
You guys cool with Creatine on AD or is it un-nessisary due to the diet? I didnt see anything about it in DR Dâs book
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
You guys cool with Creatine on AD or is it un-nessisary due to the diet? I didnt see anything about it in DR Dâs book[/quote]
its recommended
Sweet I got that GNC AMPâd creatine I dont think its got carbs it just a 1 a day pill easy but pricy⊠A buddy gave it to me so its free stuff. Iâve been getting great results with AD but figured a little creatine would kick it up.