Ahh, the pussification of America continues. I’m really getting tired of the “mommy taught me not to hit back” crowd.
This is why someone is going to come and take our country away from us.
[quote]Moon Knight wrote:
So, you would let whoever can toss out the most threats rule? Better to let gang members hurt someone else then you or yours? Better to just ignore them and hope they don’t involve you then to stop the crimes?[/quote]
That’s not what I said. I was simply pointing out a few possibilities that could explain the behavior. I don’t know any more that you do from the video.
I was just getting a bit tired of all the “I would’ve jumped in” post. We’ve all seen hundreds of similar videos and for some reason, bystanders never seem to jump in. Maybe we should shut off our computers and go bystand somewhere dangerous so we can intervene when shit breaks out.
The guys has been lying there for less than a minute when the video ends. I’m pretty sure he’s not still on the floor at this time, so at some point, I guess someone must’ve helped him or called for help.
Here again, I don’t know any more than you do from watching the video; but again, I find people are very quick to judge the actions of others. I don’t know if you’ve ever been in an accident or in some “fight or flight” situation, but time passes differently and sometimes you freeze or act in unpredictable way, especially if you’ve never had any combat or emergency training.
We agree on this point. Nothing can justify this violence. Sticks and stones and all that…
My point was that if the guy was being an asshole before, maybe no one was really concerned about the guy’s well being. At least, not enough to risk a punch for the guy. I was in a movie theater once and a guy got punched in the face because he wouldn’t stop yapping on his phone. Some people applauded. The guy was basically showing a complete lack of respect for everyone in the theater… did he expect someone to stick up for him? A pizzeria is a different situation, but basically we know nearly nothing of the build up to that beating.
Well, that’s my point about walking the walk if you’re going to talk the talk. If you’re upset because the woman is cutting in front of you, asking her politely, or at least with some modicum of respect, might have gotten better results. If you simply talk to your buddy on the phone, insulting her like she’s not even there, make sure you can handle her or her b/f if either decides to call you out.
[quote]HouseOfAtlas wrote:
Carry a nice little Glock. No reason to have to put up with that crap.[/quote]
I don’t think that’s the solution… at all… Then you’d be the one getting “shived” or worse in jail, while the fat guy you shot is driving around in his shiny new beamer he got from suing your ass.
It seems like our current judicial system is very lenient (as if its not already known). People walking the streets after killing someone while driving drunk. There are 10 people in Minnesota with over 18 DWIs EACH!!! That shiot makes me sick. I think it is in El Salvador that if you are caught drinking and driving, you get hanged. Why can’t America be like that. If someone does more harm to America’s society then they do good for it, they should be shipped somewhere else or executed. None of this rehab shiot. I guess age plays a factor, but once someone is 18, they are responsible for their actions.
Pookie, though you say you agree that nothing could have warranted the violence, you in the end go back to your arguement about walking the walk/talking the talk.
Ideally, people should be able to protect themselves if neccesary, but, why should he need to worry about being “called out” for a fight, because he(rightly) judges the girlfriend as in the wrong?
[quote]Bater wrote:
HouseOfAtlas wrote:
Carry a nice little Glock. No reason to have to put up with that crap.
I don’t think that’s the solution… at all… Then you’d be the one getting “shived” or worse in jail, while the fat guy you shot is driving around in his shiny new beamer he got from suing your ass. [/quote]
When you shoot someone, you probably shoot to kill them. If you don’t kill them, they will probably come back and kill you. And I don’t know where you live, but here in America, there is this thing called self defense. If someone comes at you, you have every right to shoot them, but once they start running away, you can’t shoot at them anymore (since its not self defense).
[quote]violentvegan wrote:
This is why someone is going to come and take our country away from us. [/quote]
Not with Bush in office 
Hopefully, we get another hard ass Republican in '08. Maybe if that little amendment changes, we can have Arnold
From the local Akron newspaper:
[i]Scarpino was standing in line at DaVinci’s Pizza in downtown Akron last July 31. It was 2:30 a.m. It was crowded. He was waiting for his order.
A woman, Prestina Sims, entered the shop and walked past the line to the counter.
Everyone understandsthat when there’s a line, you take your turn. We don’t like when this social contract gets broken.
Scarpino, who was on his cell phone with his fiancee, made some comment about this. Sims didn’t like that, and unloaded verbally on Scarpino.
Despite her taunting, Scarpino held his tongue. A manager asked her to leave. She did – and promptly returned with Jones.
She spit on the manager, then began screaming in Scarpino’s face.
Most often in cases like this, there are two versions of the story and the truth lies somewhere in between. Not this time. Security camera footage eliminates that middle ground. It is not pretty.
Jones went straight for the face. His first punch appears to have nearly knocked out Scarpino. For the rest of the beating, Jones delivered half a dozen uppercuts to a doubled-over victim.
He broke Scarpino’s nose, gave him a concussion, chipped a tooth and dropped him in a heap, where Jones tossed him around like a rag doll while looking for a dropped cell phone.[/i]
From MSNBC.com
[i]…Jones, who is 6 feet 4 inches and weighs 295 pounds, hit Scarpino at least seven times, while onlookers watched, doing nothing.
When it was over, Jones rolled Scarpino over and retrieved a cell phone he had dropped in the beating.
Even then, other customers did little to help as Scarpino nursed a broken eye socket, nose, a concussion and a chipped tooth.[/i]
BTW,the woman also got some jail time and may be facing more.
[quote]HouseOfAtlas wrote:
Bater wrote:
HouseOfAtlas wrote:
Carry a nice little Glock. No reason to have to put up with that crap.
I don’t think that’s the solution… at all… Then you’d be the one getting “shived” or worse in jail, while the fat guy you shot is driving around in his shiny new beamer he got from suing your ass.
When you shoot someone, you probably shoot to kill them. If you don’t kill them, they will probably come back and kill you. And I don’t know where you live, but here in America, there is this thing called self defense. If someone comes at you, you have every right to shoot them, but once they start running away, you can’t shoot at them anymore (since its not self defense).
[/quote]
Youre right, I dont live in the US, thank god just for this reason… I don’t know how much you know about firearms, but a pistol round doesn’t have alot of killing power… How do you think people get shot 10x’s and live? Also, is every shot going to hit the guy? what if one goes through the guy and plugs the zit faced kid behind the counter, paralyzing him? Also, there is a thing in self defence called REASONABLE FORCE… this means that if someone punches you, you don’t necessarily have the right to shoot him in the face… Although in this example, his life probably would have been in danger, so he might have been justified… but it’s all in the way the courts see it.
Diffusion of Responsibility is a big problem in an emergency. So remember, never just shout out “call 911” or something that vague. Direct your command at someone specific.
“You in the red shirt, call 911.”
“You with the big breasts, take your top off and use it to apply pressure to this wound!”
[quote]Moon Knight wrote:
Pookie, though you say you agree that nothing could have warranted the violence, you in the end go back to your arguement about walking the walk/talking the talk.[/quote]
Exactly. If you’re not ready for violence, don’t provoke it. Or if you’re provoked, let it slide (up to a point, of course…). Some people go around just looking for trouble. If you want to confront them and put them in their place, fine. But if you get your ass handed to you, don’t complain that no one stepped in to help you.
In an ideal world, he wouldn’t have to worry about it… but in the real one where most of us live, you can’t predict how people will react. Whether you’re right or wrong has nothing to do with it.
If you put things in perspective, he could’ve kept his mouth shut (probably would have if he hadn’t been on the phone) and waited an extra 5 minutes for his pizza. Now, tell me that this scenario is worse than the one the video?
It’s very nice to be principled and to stand up for yourself, but sometimes you have to choose your battles. Everytime you’re out in the city, you’ll meet assholes, morons, rude and impolite people. Are you going to get in a fight with everyone that you judge (even rightly) to be doing you wrong?
Do you “key” the car of everyone who’s parked a bit over the lines at the supermarket?
Do you heckle the guy at the ATM who does his fucking paperwork on the counter after he’s done with his withdrawals?
Howabout the idiots who drive at the speed limit in the left lane? Follow them home to have a frank talk with them on driving etiquette?
Maybe giving a quick math lessons to the retards who go thru the “10 items or less” cashier with a full cart would be worthwhile…?
You could do all that. Why not? You deserve respect after all. But if any of those people turns out to be even angrier than you, and worse, pulls out a 6’ 300 pound gorilla from nowhere, you better be ready to handle it.
[quote]Bater wrote:
Youre right, I dont live in the US, thank god just for this reason… I don’t know how much you know about firearms, but a pistol round doesn’t have alot of killing power… How do you think people get shot 10x’s and live? Also, is every shot going to hit the guy? what if one goes through the guy and plugs the zit faced kid behind the counter, paralyzing him? Also, there is a thing in self defence called REASONABLE FORCE… this means that if someone punches you, you don’t necessarily have the right to shoot him in the face… Although in this example, his life probably would have been in danger, so he might have been justified… but it’s all in the way the courts see it.
[/quote]
If you are 2 feet away from a guy and you shoot him right in the forehead, I think he’ll probably go down. Don’t you think? Also, like you said, in this case, a bullet to the forehead would be justice.
Also, if someone is going to start shiot with you for no reason and wants to start throwing fists at you, don’t you think you have the right to defend yourself with a gun? If you show the intruder the gun, and he keeps coming after you, what are you going to do? Set the gun down and defend yourself with your fists? What if he gets the gun? Then you are screwed. He’ll go to prison, but you’ll be dead. Better him then me to be dead. Society is better without people like that. Also, if you can’t defend yourself with a gun, what other use do you have for a gun besides hunting (which I don’t care for).
I just watched a second time. Those that say there wasn’t time to do anything are full of shit.
No, its not an ideal world, but ignoring the problems is not going to make it any more ideal. The only way to make a difference is to insist on things being handled justly.
Besides which, not everyone’s instincts are “better watch out for that sucker punch”, nor is everyone neccesarily going to be ready/able to handle a 300 pound guy. One can train to one’s maximum potential and perhaps be stuck somewhere in the low 200s. Even in martial arts and boxing, they recognize that size and weight make a difference.
In the end, the biggest problem of all is that that freak will be out on the street in 4 years, perhaps less with parole. People these days just have no respect for other human beings.
Pookie, you just don’t make any sense.You speak of people just looking for trouble. This video is a prime example of that.This was an orchestrated attack.She was looking for trouble.She was doing all she could to get the reaction she wanted.Her boyfriend stepped in and attacked at the exact moment that afforded him the most advantage.
It seems as though you are glazing over all of that, or like many people in the shop, you have no idea when a threat is present.
People like them need to have done to them what they have done to others.Our system of justice doesn’t even come close to doing that.
Forget about giving any benefit of doubt. There is no doubt on this one.
[quote]Moon Knight wrote:
No, its not an ideal world, but ignoring the problems is not going to make it any more ideal. The only way to make a difference is to insist on things being handled justly.[/quote]
Who said anything about ignoring the problem. Does anyone even read what I write? (Don’t answer that…)
Exactly. Hence my “don’t start shit you can’t handle” rant. Also known as “Don’t let your mouth write cheques that your body can’t cash.”
Agreed. It’s pretty sad that people will let such trivial stuff escalate to the point where it becomes a life and death situation. I’m pretty sure that prison won’t have a calming effect on that nutcase.
There was time for him to do something about it, but only if he had realised what was going down. The only people there who realy knew what was happening were the aggressors.
A lot of people just don’t recognise when stuff like this is happening. I have seen it happen a shitload of times and can tell in a second what is going down, but if you don’t know whats going down, you don’t know how to stop it either. Shit, I have been in bar fights that lasted about that long, and people the next day asking where I dissapeared to the other night.
The shit hits the fan that quick.Some people just don’t recognise it.
[quote]mindeffer01 wrote:
Pookie, you just don’t make any sense.You speak of people just looking for trouble. This video is a prime example of that.[/quote]
Yes it is. How do I not make sense when what I mention is exactly what the video shows? I wasn’t refering to cell phone guy when I said that some people look for trouble.
As I understand the story, she cut in front of everyone in line to get her pizza. Rude and impolite, I don’t think I’d go as far as “orchestrated attack”.
[quote]Her boyfriend stepped in and attacked at the exact moment that afforded him the most advantage.
It seems as though you are glazing over all of that, or like many people in the shop, you have no idea when a threat is present.[/quote]
I don’t recall anyone else in the shop getting beaten. Maybe because they kept their mouth shut? Maybe they saw that the psycho bitch was just looking to start some shit and chose not to be manipulated?
I’m getting tired of explaining this. Especially since it looks like I’m taking the thug’s side in this, which I’m definitely not. I was simply trying to show other possible views and to show that some people where “assuming facts not in evidence”… That’ll teach me. Next time, I’m with the mob.
[quote]People like them need to have done to them what they have done to others. Our system of justice doesn’t even come close to doing that.
Forget about giving any benefit of doubt. There is no doubt on this one.[/quote]
Yes it is obvious that the RIGHT, CORRECT and JUST solution to these problems is more violence, preferably involving guns, bullets and people dying in large numbers.
Respect, discretion, tolerance and forgiveness are such antiquated, pussy values. Animals don’t need them, and neither do we.
Maybe those of you who live near where the incident took place could look up the address of the families of those two sickos. We could then hunt them down and purge the whole fucking family from our collective gene pool? That’ll teach them! A few of us will probably have to do some jail time, but the sentences are so short and easy. We’ll use that time inside to finish of those two.
What do you say?
I think one of the overlying factors that we seem to be forgetting is the direction our society is taking. 2-300 years ago when this country was at it’s infancy, bitch makes a scene like that and bullets start flying. Anyone remember the wild west? You cut in line in front of me? you got 10 seconds to flee town or you’ll have a bullet hole up your ass.
Our society is in general on a more peaceful trend, as far as the every day person goes. Some people are just evolving a bit more slowly and thus you have a bunch of peacenicks caged in a room with someone who probably thinks it’s fun to bust a skull or two.
No pookie the orchestration wasn’t when she cut in line, it was when she stepped up and distracted him while B.f. moved in behind. You might notice how he closed the gap from behind her, then slid her to the left to prepare for an attack from the right.
You can dismiss it all you want.Put your head down and keep your mouth shut and be a door mat.Just don’t be surprised if one day for no good reason, your orbital socket gets busted.
But thats O.K. cause you are a pacifist, and the people that do things like that have problems and need help.So you can feel good knowing that you helped them to feel better about themselves.