[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wow, someone justifying what happened. Read this please:
He was shot…even after he was on the ground. That doesn’t take a hair trigger. It takes hatred and violence…one reason that entire Street Squad has since been disbanded. I have never seen a case where blacks have done anything like this and been acquitted of all charges. Please educate me as to some. Hell, just one, please. Let me know. I could be completely wrong. Show me the light.
[/quote]
I wasn’t justifying it. There’s no justification.
Please don’t simplify everything to fit into your own preconceived shoe-boxes.
All I was doing was offering some understanding. It was a horrible thing. But just so you know, at this point many police departments are teaching the spray and pray policy. They should be teaching markmanship and restraint, but they aren’t.
[quote]J But let’s call it what it was, a horrible mistake…not proof of systematic racism by the police or US society in general. That is pure lunacy and perpetuates the problems that boiled to the surface earlier in this thread.
[/quote]
not just that, but worse, it cheapens the whole debate. IMO.
The cops who made this mistake have to live with it forever. But let’s call it what it was, a horrible mistake…not proof of systematic racism by the police or US society in general. That is pure lunacy and perpetuates the problems that boiled to the surface earlier in this thread.
[/quote]
I don’t think I took it as far as “systematic racism”. One thing I will note is the assumption by much of America that a black man is more of a “threat” than his white counterparts. Even the poster I just responded to who went on and on about Oprah even noticed that. It seems some of you can only see “blatant racism” or “no racism at all”. This is what I referred to by comparing this to Where’s Waldo. Would a white man suspected of the same crime have been shot with a spray of 41 bullets? Please show me a similar case where this has happened. Please show me the white version of Rodney King. Enlighten me. Again, maybe I am completely wrong. Show me the light.
The Diallo shooting was huge news. It was discussed on all the news channels. The cops fucked up big time. You take some hyper aggresive people, give them virtually unlimited power, make them interact with the worst of society all day long and it makes me wonder why this sort of thing does not happen more.
Black people have gotten the shaft in this country from day one. Anyone that would dispute that is an idiot.
This does not excuse poor behavior such as that exhibited in the pizza parlor. I don’t know what turns my stomach the most, the brutal attack, the assholes that were more worried about their pizza or how otherwise intelligent people can turn this into a black vs. white issue.
In the year 2000,(the year after the Diallo shooting) the average for shots fired by an individual police officer in a gunfight in NYC was 7. There were four officers at the Diallo shooting so to follow with that average number they should have fired 28 times to be statistaclly “average”. Not too far off from the 41. I dont mean to boil the end of a man’s life down to statistics, but I think my point should be clear. If not, then let’s consider this additional fact.
When the nearest officer to Diallo yelled gun and openned fire, he tripped shortly thereafter and fell to the ground. Although the entire situation is somewhat muddled, it is known that two of the other guys there rushed up as they saw their partner go down and really openned up on Diallo. They said later that they were sure their partner had been shot. Given the chaos of the situation, it was probably not an unreasonable belief.
I give these details because they illustrate an important point. We need to look further into these incidents and
not let knee-jerk reactionism guide our thinking. Also, there is not always some larger social force, like racism, guiding real world events. The Amadou Diallo case was all about 5 men in the middle of the night who were all afraid and made very human mistakes.
Its easy to make the 41 shots into something they were not. An ignorant asshole who has lived quite a charmed life by the name of Springsteen did just that. Very much the logical fallacy of already having a conclusion and shaping
events by distortion or deletion to fit your final, and false, beliefs.
I cant really say any more than what I presented here. Honestly, everyone can believe whatever they want and no amount of reasoning will stop this. Of course, thats how we arrived at this racism problem in the first place…
Zap,
I truly wanted to bow out of this diatribe and move on, really I did. “Poor behavior exhibited at the pizza parlor”. Duh, I don’t know why this has spiraled into a black/white issue. Here’s what you do, watch the video, turn up volume, listen to Miss Sims as she’s jabbing Mr. Scarpino in the head, “Dis white motherfucker right here, dis white mother fucker right here.”
This “poor behavior” is prior to her spitting on the employee of the establishment and the “naughty” beating of Mr. Scarpino by poor misunderstood Mr. Jones. Is a lynching “poor behavior”. You are exactly the spineless, liberal, white apologist I’ve alluded to. What would you have said to Mr. Scarpino as he lay in the pool of his own blood? “Boy he was a wittle testy, westy, wasn’t he”. Fuck, 400 years of injustice entitles an individual to that behavior.
[quote]KFall wrote:
Zap,
I truly wanted to bow out of this diatribe and move on, really I did. “Poor behavior exhibited at the pizza parlor”. Duh, I don’t know why this has spiraled into a black/white issue. Here’s what you do, watch the video, turn up volume, listen to Miss Sims as she’s jabbing Mr. Scarpino in the head, “Dis white motherfucker right here, dis white mother fucker right here.”
This “poor behavior” is prior to her spitting on the employee of the establishment and the “naughty” beating of Mr. Scarpino by poor misunderstood Mr. Jones. Is a lynching “poor behavior”. You are exactly the spineless, liberal, white apologist I’ve alluded to. What would you have said to Mr. Scarpino as he lay in the pool of his own blood? “Boy he was a wittle testy, westy, wasn’t he”. Fuck, 400 years of injustice entitles an individual to that behavior.[/quote]
Kfall you sound ignorant. No one here has at all alluded to the fact that this man’s actions were justified.
The officers were white, the murderer is African-American.
What was the point of posting this? The man got convicted. He was not acquitted of all charges.[/quote]
Prof X, the point is that is the kind of stuff police have to expect. These officers weren’t expecting to get shot by a semi-automatic machine gun when they made this traffic stop. What can officers assume when after supposedly chasing this Diallo guy down, that he ISN’T armed?
My other point to posting that was I wanted someone to chime in and say “well, he would have shot them if they were black, too” Which would PROBABLY be the same case in the Diallo shooting, he would have been shot dead if he was white, black, red, green, or blue and polka dotted too. I see what you are mad about, that they were acquitted, but its just a fact that police CAN and DO get away with shooting people on accident, whether they’re black or white.
You are trying to paint them as cold-blooded killers, killing out of racism and hate. But they are not, they are just men like you and me, who make fallible decisions. Unfortunately, their decisions are sometimes whether or not they have to take someone out! Most of the time they make the correct decision, but you can’t crucify them if they make a mistake, they’re human!
[quote]KFall wrote:
Zap,
I truly wanted to bow out of this diatribe and move on, really I did. “Poor behavior exhibited at the pizza parlor”. Duh, I don’t know why this has spiraled into a black/white issue. Here’s what you do, watch the video, turn up volume, listen to Miss Sims as she’s jabbing Mr. Scarpino in the head, “Dis white motherfucker right here, dis white mother fucker right here.”
This “poor behavior” is prior to her spitting on the employee of the establishment and the “naughty” beating of Mr. Scarpino by poor misunderstood Mr. Jones. Is a lynching “poor behavior”. You are exactly the spineless, liberal, white apologist I’ve alluded to. What would you have said to Mr. Scarpino as he lay in the pool of his own blood? “Boy he was a wittle testy, westy, wasn’t he”. Fuck, 400 years of injustice entitles an individual to that behavior.[/quote]
I don’t think I have ever been called a “liberal” before. I try to look at all sides of an issue before I make a decision. I usually come down on the conservative side of things.
I have seen a number of posts trying to deny that blacks have it tougher than whites in this society. This country has come a long way in race relations but it still has a long way to go.
I have also seen posts of people using the Rodney King beating as an example of racism. That is bullshit. I don’t care if you are black or white, when you run from the cops and resist arrest you get a beating. That is the way it is. I have a white friend that was beat down by 5 cops with nightsticks, flashlights and boots. Complete case of mistaken identity. The only mistake he made was pulling away when the cop grabbed him. I saw it with my own eyes.
The point I am trying to make is just because Miss Sims is a fat racist bitch doesn’t mean I expect so many people on this board to sink to her level regarding racism.
Miss Sims is a fat pig, the attacker is a fat pig, why dont we make this a fat vs fit battle.
As to what I would have done, I really don’t know, but I am sure it would have been better than what the other bystanders did.
[quote]KFall wrote:
I think the heat this thread is generating is bringing out the moderating Top Guns.
[/quote]
KFall, you make some valid points, unfortunately you are way out of line with your racist statements. But you’re not alone on this thread in that respect.
The way I see this discussion is that everyone is speaking from their own experiences and that of their friends, families, etc and its easy to dismiss peoples’ opinions here as racist (in any direction be it white, black, yellow). The truth is that I’m white, ProfX is black (unless my monitor is dying) and everyone else on this thread is one color or another or some mix in between and none of us knows what its like to be another race. It’s invalid for white people to think that racism is dead and likewise is it invalid for black people to think that all whites, Koreans, Latinos are ultimately anti-black.
KFall mentioned that all white men have an innate fear of black men. This is his experience. Maybe in Nebraska, that’s the case. I was an officer in the Army and I now work in Manhattan and I know this isn’t the case with all white men.
These different views are born of experience, or rather, a lack of education - not school education or intelligence mind you, but life education. I doubt KFall has lived with a black family to experience what its like on a daily basis. He might be surprised to find that not all black families are fatherless, loveless and lawless. I’ve been around here long enough to know that ProfX is a smart individual (I’m not picking on KFall here- I just haven’t seen enough posts to comment), but I doubt he’s lived with a family of white people who have been trained by the television and movie media to be afraid of what black men do to whites that stray into their neighborhoods.
It’s ignorance on all of our parts and as long as there are different races living amongst each other it will always be there. I like what I once heard a comedian say about race (I apologize that I don’t remember who it was). He said, the only way to eliminate racism is for us all to start fucking each other like rabbits until there is only one mixed up race. Amen. Until then, let’s just listen to each other with a little more understanding of where that other person might be coming from.
[quote]StevenF wrote:
I saw that on the news a couple days ago and I said the same exact fucking thing. I am so pissed off that people could just watch that happen and not do anything. [/quote]
Rely on society for your protection and you will achieve a similiar fate. The only guaranteed mechanism of self-preservation is self-defense: either you defend yourself, or die trying. It’s a very simple formula. You must be completely on guard, ready to defend yourself at every waking moment. Any time at which you are not immediately compelled to defend yourself against assault should be devoted to improving your biological mechanisms for dealing with such an attack.
Procreation, family, and other social diseases have no place in such a self-devoted state, unless the individual in question decides to pursue a dominant role in his own domain. When this arises, it is a well established fact that only one alpha male can exist in a population.
So there you have it. What’s your weakness - Religion? Social dependance? Family ties? Morality? Civic duty? It’s irrelevant, for they all lead to the same mortality. To live as a true individual, dependant on no one or nothing, is to achieve god-like status among lesser mortals.
[quote]Al Shades wrote:
StevenF wrote:
I saw that on the news a couple days ago and I said the same exact fucking thing. I am so pissed off that people could just watch that happen and not do anything.
Rely on society for your protection and you will achieve a similiar fate. The only guaranteed mechanism of self-preservation is self-defense: either you defend yourself, or die trying. It’s a very simple formula. You must be completely on guard, ready to defend yourself at every waking moment. Any time at which you are not immediately compelled to defend yourself against assault should be devoted to improving your biological mechanisms for dealing with such an attack.
Procreation, family, and other social diseases have no place in such a self-devoted state, unless the individual in question decides to pursue a dominant role in his own domain. When this arises, it is a well established fact that only one alpha male can exist in a population.
So there you have it. What’s your weakness - Religion? Social dependance? Family ties? Morality? Civic duty? It’s irrelevant, for they all lead to the same mortality. To live as a true individual, dependant on no one or nothing, is to achieve god-like status among lesser mortals.[/quote]
Al, I think you are goofing around again. No matter what you do you are still mortal. Your only shot at immortality is to have children.
Whoever said guns would solve this problem…thats a huge mistake. Some guy pulls a gun in there, many innocent lives are at stake.
Having guns as an acceptable part of society is shameful. The solution in this situation was simply for 2 or 3 guys to restrain the big guy whilst someone else called the police. To stand idley by is a disgrace, I think its actually ILLEGAL in some countries to watch a crime and not intervene if it is reasonable to do so.
Procreation, family, and other social diseases have no place in such a self-devoted state, unless the individual in question decides to pursue a dominant role in his own domain. When this arises, it is a well established fact that only one alpha male can exist in a population.
So there you have it. What’s your weakness - Religion? Social dependance? Family ties? Morality? Civic duty? It’s irrelevant, for they all lead to the same mortality. To live as a true individual, dependant on no one or nothing, is to achieve god-like status among lesser mortals.[/quote]
Al,
In this- I’m going to have to call Bullsh*t. I am deeply religious. I have strong morals. I’m active in the community, so I think civic duty is covered. I have children.
If someone comes in my yard- their ass is mine. I handle myself well and am raising my son (soon to be sons) to do the same. I am in no way God, nor am I the baddest man on the entire planet, but I WILL send someone to meet God should they endanger me or my family. Bet the farm on it.
Procreation, family, and other social diseases have no place in such a self-devoted state, unless the individual in question decides to pursue a dominant role in his own domain. When this arises, it is a well established fact that only one alpha male can exist in a population.
So there you have it. What’s your weakness - Religion? Social dependance? Family ties? Morality? Civic duty? It’s irrelevant, for they all lead to the same mortality. To live as a true individual, dependant on no one or nothing, is to achieve god-like status among lesser mortals.
Al,
In this- I’m going to have to call Bullsh*t. I am deeply religious. I have strong morals. I’m active in the community, so I think civic duty is covered. I have children.
If someone comes in my yard- their ass is mine. I handle myself well and am raising my son (soon to be sons) to do the same. I am in no way God, nor am I the baddest man on the entire planet, but I WILL send someone to meet God should they endanger me or my family. Bet the farm on it.[/quote]
Mica…
I like you have the same lifestyle. If anyone dares to cross my boundry lines to cause harm…I’ll gladly send them along to Head Judge.