Prof. X,
I was trying to distinguish the difference between torture and corporal interrogation, but as you can see, vroom would rather not enguage a topic and explore it to any depth. My writing skills are pretty rough. You have a valid point on that,but the components that determine I.Q. are not based solely on writing skill.As for the name calling, thats just guilty pleasure. My girlfriend reads these posts and we laugh our asses off to stuff like that.
This isn’t the first time I have ever posted. I just don’t usualy take such a strong stance with most idle chatter,but something,or alot of things in vrooms banter Really pissed me off.
Here is something to consider. If vrooms idea that our interrogation methods create more enemies, then why aren’t our P.O.W.'s from Viet Nam sworn enemies of Asia, indiscriminately killing those that they see as representatives of that which they hate? If his idea held any water, that would be the case. Apparently his idea doesn’t though, because that is not the case. But I guess it’s easier to banter about nothing but himself and just use incendiary topics as an inroad to his favorite.
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
C’mon now Zeb, whats with the interest you and jeffy have with my bowels? Do you guys have some kind of weird fetish? [/quote]
LOL…no pal just want to make sure you are healthy. 
Uh-oh, I sense the beginnings of a beautiful friendship between mindeffer01 and Zeb.
Jeffy, thanks for the concern, I wish you well… as well.
Sorry I didn’t reply fast enough for you mindf’er, I actually have a career and associated responsibilities. Maybe when you grow up you’ll get one?
My take on your comment is that it has been suggested that torture is not really a useful method of interrogation anyway. It seems that people will do their best to tell you what you want to hear, so you’ll stop torturing them, whether or not is has any realation to the truth.
If there is any truth in this notion, then there is no point in torturing people, except to exact some type of macho revenge.
Anyhow, I’m hardly a pacifist or a pussy, I’d simply rather fight honorably then dishonorably. If the war were to last a little longer because of this, that would still be my choice. The level of depravity of my enemy will not change me in this way.
If you make a different choice, due to your obviously huge level of macho pride, or your own character, that is up to you. It doesn’t make the rest of the world pussies because they choose to think differently.
As for what I do or don’t say, I’d very much like people to read my posts and form their own opinions. I don’t think they need to be told what one certain loser thinks my opinion is. I think I am quite willing to state my own opinion.
If anyone out there wants to know what I feel about something, just ask – in an on topic way if possible. You’ll find it is quite different than is being suggested by my own private psycho stalker.
–
As usual, apologies for getting drawn into a thread-destroying defense of myself, I know nobody wants to read this instead of the good conversation we started with.
If I could ask you, the reader, for a favor, please recognize I’m continually trying to steer the thread back on topic but not always having much luck.
[quote]mindeffer01 wrote:
Hey vroom,
I’ll answer the question you posed. I have no problem going out on a limb with this one. Yes our ends justify the means. The first end is to attack and destroy El-Quaida and its cells where ever they may be.The means of doing that-Special Forces operations to gather inteligence and use it to kill those cells.Special Ops are classified as unconventional warfare. Thats where it gets dirty. They are allowed to use corporal interrogation. They are trained in it.Thats one of the many reasons its catagorised as unconventional. If you don’t like that, well too f@#$%ng bad. Then don’t do it.I have a cousin in Afghanastan right now on
the hunter-killer squads combing through the mountains and destroying these holed up little bastards and I really want to see him make it back alive. If he has to slap some terrorists around to accomplish this, I hope he slaps them a couple times for me. If you don’t have the stomach for stuff like that, then it probably is best that you hide behind a key board with your pseudo intelectual musings.You certainly don’t have the balls to actualy do something to stop terrorism where it starts,and you sure as hell have no room to criticise the people who are diong something about it,you pussy. And by the way,I saw some of the pictures you posted in another thread.They definitely confirm that you are in fact testicularly challenged.Why dont you go hit some weights or something?[/quote]
mindeffer, you’re definitley intitled to your opinion, but why do you have to get personal about the pics? He had the balls to put em up! Can we see some awe inspiring pics of your physique or can we find you on the cover of Flex or Ironman or worse Mens Health? Also, thanks for the lesson about unconvential warfare and good luck on your Mensa test.
derek:
As to the original intent of your post: It’s true that we are fighting people who have no qualms about beheading innocent civillians. They have shown that they will commit heinous crimes in the name of their cause. They are ruthless, violent, brutish people who will stop at nothing in order to win.
However, we are the United States Of America! The leader of the free world and the strongest military might the world has ever seen. For those reasons we need to be above reproach when it comes to dealing with POW’s and the enemy in general. We are going to make mistakes (as we did with the prison scandal). However, our mistakes need to be reported so that the world can see, and then corrected, so that they are not repeated!
We want the proper message to be sent throughout the world. That message is basic: We will do whatever it takes, within the moral confines of armed conflict to win the war on terror. However, we will not lower ourselves to the terrorist level in order to achieve that end! During World War Two the Japanese were also known as “ruthless.” Suicide bombers are really nothing new to the USA. Remember Kamikaze planes? And what about the horrible tortures of German holding camps for Jews? We won then, and we’ll win now, but we will do it the right way just as we did back then.
Contrary to what the bleeding heart liberals claim, this war is the right one, at the right place and at the right time. The only way that it will turn bad is if we turn world sentiment against us. While I know one ultra-liberal ego maniac who may claim that world sentiment is already against us, that is not the case.
We have some 36 countries who have joined us in the fight against terrorism in Iraq. We have countless others who have joined us in the world wide fight on terrorism. In short, America is leading the way to freedom and democracy. We cannot afford to ruin that image with prison scandals and other missteps.
Keep the faith derek. We will win, and we will win it the right way!
Zeb,
Nice post! Good to see you addressing the issues and a pleasant surprise to see that we actually agree on something.
There are other ways the war can go bad, perhaps via the age old mistake of underestimating the enemy or letting other neighboring countries (like Syria) support an ongoing insurgency. See BostonBarrister’s current thread on this issue.
I think one incredible danger right now is the infiltration of Iraqi security forces and perhaps government by the insurgents. This is massively destabilizing and needs to be controlled.
I think many people will agree that increasing the degree of animosity towards the US will not be helpful in achieving the right outcome. Situations like that which occurred in Abu Ghraib have the potential to do this.
Anyhow, just pointing out there may be other dangers as well. Keep up the good, issues based, posts Zeb.
vroom:
I have expressed my opinion on countless topics spanning many, months. I don’t need to attack others personally and wish that you would stop doing so yourself. Calling someone a “liberal” is neither a personal attack, or even inaccurate in your case as you have stated that you are in fact a liberal.
However, sometimes the way you carry on just isn’t called for. For example, to mindfer you wrote: “I actually have a career and associated responsibilities. Maybe when you grow up you’ll get one.” Would you call that staying “on topic?” You do this over and over with many people.
I think you need to take some of your own advice.
We should probably let this one die now guys.It was fun to jump in,ruffle some feathers and (fruitlessly) try to explore and debate a topic, but it looks like this illness has run its course.