[quote]ZEB wrote:
What I really think we need is another religious thread where believers can try to speculate why God does what he does, and atheists can ridicule the idea that God exists. More of these threads are needed because we never know how they’re going to end. And that’s because THEY NEVER END they just keep going and going, one after the other endlessly.
[/quote]
Holy shit we agree on something.
God works in ways that many times, but not always seem mysterious to us, yet are ALWAYS for HIS glory. Unbelievers will never understand this?[/quote]Fixed that for ya.
[/quote]
Totally. Like that time he killed a bunch of children. That was glorious.[/quote]
I forgot that you guys say this, thanks for reminding me.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:<<< Next time you’re with a group of children, and their parents, tell them all about this. See how they react.
“My god killed a bunch of kids about your age, once. Its ok, he promised he would.”[/quote]It was more than once and it’s common knowledge among the fanatics I roll with… and their children. Rest easy. We also know that our God in His Christ fulfilled all the earthly dominion and His kingdom not being of this world will never require that again.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
What I really think we need is another religious thread where believers can try to speculate why God does what he does, and atheists can ridicule the idea that God exists. More of these threads are needed because we never know how they’re going to end. And that’s because THEY NEVER END they just keep going and going, one after the other endlessly.
[/quote]
Holy shit we agree on something.
God works in ways that many times, but not always seem mysterious to us, yet are ALWAYS for HIS glory. Unbelievers will never understand this?[/quote]Fixed that for ya.
[/quote]
Totally. Like that time he killed a bunch of children. That was glorious.[/quote]
I forgot that you guys say this, thanks for reminding me. [/quote]
I think he has called 1.5 million abortions a year “unfortunate” or “sad” or maybe even tragic. I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth.
[quote]koffea wrote:
this arguement “why hasnt god regenerated limbs?” is popping up in the humanist coffee house slums a lot lately. I have probably heard this arguement 3 dozen times in the last 4 or 5 months. Just interesting how a group can latch on to something, and how fast it propagates the world over.
they generally bait the christian - what would it take to make you not believe in god.
the christian responds “nothing” as if to admit a stalemate
the humanist says well if christians started regenerating limbs i would definitely start believing in god . . .
pretty ridiculous really[/quote]
Yeah well, the real question is “Why does God love salamander more than us?” anyway.[/quote]
He doesn’t The Salamander does not have the intelligence or the ability to concieve and build prostetic tail.
And why stop the question with re-generating human limbs? If God loves us, why do we get sick? Why do we die? Why do we lose limbs to begin with?
To me, this question is the equivalent to the Creationalists asking “how could something so complex as a human eye be created through pure chance evolution?” Why stop at an eye? how about a brain? what about an organism? How about the nervous system? All more complex then a mere eye.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
What I really think we need is another religious thread where believers can try to speculate why God does what he does, and atheists can ridicule the idea that God exists. More of these threads are needed because we never know how they’re going to end. And that’s because THEY NEVER END they just keep going and going, one after the other endlessly.[/quote]<<< Holy shit we agree on something.
God works in ways that many times, but not always seem mysterious to us, yet are ALWAYS for HIS glory. Unbelievers will never understand this?[/quote]Fixed that for ya.
[/quote]Totally. Like that time he killed a bunch of children. That was glorious.[/quote]It was indeed. The purification of the land in fulfillment of the earthly promise He made to Abraham that his children would possess it. God is incapable or “wrong”. Him being THE only standard n all.
[/quote]
Next time you’re with a group of children, and their parents, tell them all about this. See how they react.
“My god killed a bunch of kids about your age, once. Its ok, he promised he would.”[/quote]
You’d think after he turned the Nile to blood, that Pharaoh would have listened…But nooooo, he had to be a bad ass.
[quote]koffea wrote:
this arguement “why hasnt god regenerated limbs?” is popping up in the humanist coffee house slums a lot lately. I have probably heard this arguement 3 dozen times in the last 4 or 5 months. Just interesting how a group can latch on to something, and how fast it propagates the world over.
they generally bait the christian - what would it take to make you not believe in god.
the christian responds “nothing” as if to admit a stalemate
the humanist says well if christians started regenerating limbs i would definitely start believing in god . . .
pretty ridiculous really[/quote]
Yeah well, the real question is “Why does God love salamander more than us?” anyway.[/quote]
He doesn’t The Salamander does not have the intelligence or the ability to concieve and build prostetic tail.
And why stop the question with re-generating human limbs? If God loves us, why do we get sick? Why do we die? Why do we lose limbs to begin with?
To me, this question is the equivalent to the Creationalists asking “how could something so complex as a human eye be created through pure chance evolution?” Why stop at an eye? how about a brain? what about an organism? How about the nervous system? All more complex then a mere eye. [/quote]
That I do not find problematic…What I find problematic is 1) the stomach flu…That is the cruest, harshest, most miserable 24-48 hours you will ever spend. You may not die, but you wish you would…
2)Roaches. Why roaches?! Something that utterly disgusting has no reason to exist in my book.
[quote]pat wrote:<<< You’d think after he turned the Nile to blood, that Pharaoh would have listened…But nooooo, he had to be a bad ass.[/quote]Don’t forget about the campaigns of Joshua and Saul. Every man, women and child God told them. Not one survivor was to remain.
I think you’re the one looking silly Einstein. Most atheists do not address evolution when discussing purely religious threads. That is not to say that there have not been evolution threads and religion is brought up. But mostly these threads don’t quite work that way. But you’d actually have to pay attention to understand this.
Keep posting and I’ll try to bring you up to date.[/quote]
Is this a purely religious thread? I would say this is a thread about what kind of answers and questions are acceptable in a worldview, once again. It seems that my questions are not acceptable in your eyes, if you perceive them as mocking. Since you have participated, please bring in your own explanation, why god don’t help amputees. I have already proposed several reasons.
[quote]pat wrote:<<< You’d think after he turned the Nile to blood, that Pharaoh would have listened…But nooooo, he had to be a bad ass.[/quote]Don’t forget about the campaigns of Joshua and Saul. Every man, women and child God told them. Not one survivor was to remain.
[/quote]
Hey, what was the parable in the Bible which is paraphrased something like "even if a man returns from the dead people would still not believe? Didn’t Lazarus say that to the rich man who was in hell?
It’s easy to give your god credit for healing something that is known to spontaneously heal anyway.
A true miracle would be a healing, like restoring an amputated limb, that has never occurred spontaneously.
I’ve brought this up before, and believers never have an answer.
I guess it’s just coincidence that every known instance of “miracle” healing has also occurred spontaneously, and that not a single other instance like restoring an amputated limb has occurred, ever.
[quote]forlife wrote:
It’s easy to give your god credit for healing something that is known to spontaneously heal anyway.
A true miracle would be a healing, like restoring an amputated limb, that has never occurred spontaneously.
I’ve brought this up before, and believers never have an answer.
[/quote]
never have an answer? I think that God doesn’t want people to believe in him because of miracles. If he wanted to prove his existence it should be quite a simple matter by your reasoning right? He could prove it in any number of ways, not just through healing miracles and he has not, by your standards, right? That’s the issue isn’t it?
But if someone’ leg grew back, I think atheists would be the first to look for a scientific explanation. Don’t you? Why don’t you ask why the stars don’t spell out the message of the Gospel?
Actually I wrote a short story in highschool, basically a kind of joke, that scientists ran the predicted pattern of the stars for thousands of years and they ended up spelling out a message in some ancient language, the message being “There is no god”.
And another one about cloning DNA from blood from the shroud of Tourin. Kind of a second coming.
If God did greater and greater miracles, and people gradually rejected greater and greater miracles then we would become more and more desinsitized to God’s presence, and the fallen human brain has a way of dismissing God’s presence.
Maybe bringing back a leg would be a curse. Maybe we would stop trying to take care of ourselves and others and just look for the next miracle to take care of our needs. Why doesn’t God just take us all up there and show us the glory of heaven right now, then we all would believe for sures.
[quote]forlife wrote:
It’s easy to give your god credit for healing something that is known to spontaneously heal anyway.
A true miracle would be a healing, like restoring an amputated limb, that has never occurred spontaneously.
I’ve brought this up before, and believers never have an answer.
I guess it’s just coincidence that every known instance of “miracle” healing has also occurred spontaneously, and that not a single other instance like restoring an amputated limb has occurred, ever.[/quote]
Maybe it’s a red herring? God isn’t a trained monkey. “Hey God, do this and then I’ll believe.”
Second, you don’t know if it’s ever happened or not. Do you know the fate of every amputee that has ever lived? Wouldn’t that be required?
If you stick your head inside a box, it’s doesn’t mean the lights are out, it means your head is inside a box…
[quote]pat wrote:<<< You’d think after he turned the Nile to blood, that Pharaoh would have listened…But nooooo, he had to be a bad ass.[/quote]Don’t forget about the campaigns of Joshua and Saul. Every man, women and child God told them. Not one survivor was to remain.
[/quote]
Do you remember why though? Hint: it wasn’t because Jerico or Ai were simply in the way…
[quote]pat wrote:<<< You’d think after he turned the Nile to blood, that Pharaoh would have listened…But nooooo, he had to be a bad ass.[/quote]Don’t forget about the campaigns of Joshua and Saul. Every man, women and child God told them. Not one survivor was to remain.
[/quote]
Hey, what was the parable in the Bible which is paraphrased something like "even if a man returns from the dead people would still not believe? Didn’t Lazarus say that to the rich man who was in hell?[/quote]
If it’s not supposed to be a miracle, why do people constantly interpret it as such and use it to support their belief in their god?
And if god doesn’t prove himself through miracles, does nobody find it a little suspect that every single one of these “miracles” can occur spontaneously, while there isn’t a single example of something that would not be possible spontaneously?
[quote]forlife wrote:
If it’s not supposed to be a miracle, why do people constantly interpret it as such and use it to support their belief in their god?
And if god doesn’t prove himself through miracles, does nobody find it a little suspect that every single one of these “miracles” can occur spontaneously, while there isn’t a single example of something that would not be possible spontaneously?[/quote]
As I’ve posited before, science can never explain free will/non-determination. It is a) part of the standard copenhagan model of quantum physics and b) is by definition in that model “beyond further explanation” and yet free will would make every human thought and choice a miracle. Science can not explain why the universe is a collapsed wave function-an “observable” and not just a superposition of all mathematical possibilities.
I think the root of your question is not about “miracles”, but about why God allows pain. Maybe I’m wrong here, but let me ask, why would God heal a missing leg?
Why is there pain, and why doesn’t God just show himself beyond any human capacity to doubt seem to be the deeper questions. No?
[quote]forlife wrote:
If it’s not supposed to be a miracle, why do people constantly interpret it as such and use it to support their belief in their god?
And if god doesn’t prove himself through miracles, does nobody find it a little suspect that every single one of these “miracles” can occur spontaneously, while there isn’t a single example of something that would not be possible spontaneously?[/quote]
As I’ve posited before, science can never explain free will/non-determination. It is a) part of the standard copenhagan model of quantum physics and b) is by definition in that model “beyond further explanation” and yet free will would make every human thought and choice a miracle. Science can not explain why the universe is a collapsed wave function-an “observable” and not just a superposition of all mathematical possibilities.
I think the root of your question is not about “miracles”, but about why God allows pain. Maybe I’m wrong here, but let me ask, why would God heal a missing leg?
Why is there pain, and why doesn’t God just show himself beyond any human capacity to doubt seem to be the deeper questions. No?[/quote]
Why would god heal the blind, cure cancer, and perform other miracles that just happen to occur spontaneously, but never, even once, perform miracles with no alternate explanation?
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
I think the root of your question is not about “miracles”, but about why God allows pain. Maybe I’m wrong here, but let me ask, why would God heal a missing leg?
Why is there pain, and why doesn’t God just show himself beyond any human capacity to doubt seem to be the deeper questions. No?[/quote]
That’s probably why this question is difficult to answer for a christian, it’s somehow beside the mark, it’s annoying and it’s not addressing the real questions. Who cares why god does not heal amputees, even if you could answer it what would it mean, practically nothing. Well, alas, for a secular person this is just the kind of question that makes sense when considering the possibility of a personal god.
