[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
The people funding them are U.S allies, Qatar and Saudi Arabia…
[/quote]
I don’t doubt this one bit but I would like to see sources here.[/quote]
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
The people funding them are U.S allies, Qatar and Saudi Arabia…
[/quote]
I don’t doubt this one bit but I would like to see sources here.[/quote]
This is hard to really prove because of the nature of the funding being secretive for obvious reasons, however most of the people in Iraq, namely the prime minister is saying that the funding is coming from both Qatar and Saudi Arabia.
The Saudi’s have denied it.
[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
[quote]BPCorso wrote:
The people who have funded IS are culpable and I hope the various intelligence communities can figure out where the money came from. I know the various countries in play, but the specific people or families doing it need to be publicly admonished.[/quote]
The people funding them are U.S allies, Qatar and Saudi Arabia. The U.S government has been in bed with the Islamist movement via proxy since the newest incarnation of it began. [/quote]
I know Qatar and Saudi Arabia are the primary nations where the money is coming from. What I want is for the specific people to be found out. Which wealthy families are contributing to this movement?
Also interested in the current state of funding. Surely the Saudis and Qataris know that an expanding IS movement does not bode well for them at this point. They were thinking super short-term.
And fuck, USA should call them out for allowing this to happen under their noses. We’ve called out much better allies than SA and Qatar for much less (see: Israel). I think the USA has all the leverage while the Qataris and Saudis have ever decreasing leverage. If we’re not afraid to fuck with Russia, then we damn sure shouldn’t be afraid of the Saudis and Qataris.
[quote]BPCorso wrote:
[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
[quote]BPCorso wrote:
The people who have funded IS are culpable and I hope the various intelligence communities can figure out where the money came from. I know the various countries in play, but the specific people or families doing it need to be publicly admonished.[/quote]
The people funding them are U.S allies, Qatar and Saudi Arabia. The U.S government has been in bed with the Islamist movement via proxy since the newest incarnation of it began. [/quote]
I know Qatar and Saudi Arabia are the primary nations where the money is coming from. What I want is for the specific people to be found out. Which wealthy families are contributing to this movement?
Also interested in the current state of funding. Surely the Saudis and Qataris know that an expanding IS movement does not bode well for them at this point. They were thinking super short-term.
And fuck, USA should call them out for allowing this to happen under their noses. We’ve called out much better allies than SA and Qatar for much less (see: Israel). I think the USA has all the leverage while the Qataris and Saudis have ever decreasing leverage. If we’re not afraid to fuck with Russia, then we damn sure shouldn’t be afraid of the Saudis and Qataris. [/quote]
The U.S knows who is doing the funding i would bet, they however control the natural resources the west needs, so really its a case of come at me brah.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]BPCorso wrote:
The people who have funded IS are culpable and I hope the various intelligence communities can figure out where the money came from. I know the various countries in play, but the specific people or families doing it need to be publicly admonished.[/quote]
Good point.
Qatar? It is about 90% Sunni.[/quote]
Yea Qatar is filthy rich and they have given a lot of funds to these radical movements. I’m asking for specific people so they can be embarrassed and shamed on an international level. If it’s the actual monarchy outright providing the money, they are truly stupid and cutting their nose to spite the face.
[quote]BPCorso wrote:
I think the USA has all the leverage while the Qataris and Saudis have ever decreasing leverage. [/quote]
I think if anyone has decreasing hegemony it is the U.S, it is in decline as a super power and with the new emerging future dominant powers in the east Qatar and Saudi Arabia will soon be able to supply to the eastern powers primarily to feed China’s demand for oil.
I think America is well on its way to total decline in the same way the British empire dwindled down after reaching a high peak.
[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
[quote]BPCorso wrote:
[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
[quote]BPCorso wrote:
The people who have funded IS are culpable and I hope the various intelligence communities can figure out where the money came from. I know the various countries in play, but the specific people or families doing it need to be publicly admonished.[/quote]
The people funding them are U.S allies, Qatar and Saudi Arabia. The U.S government has been in bed with the Islamist movement via proxy since the newest incarnation of it began. [/quote]
I know Qatar and Saudi Arabia are the primary nations where the money is coming from. What I want is for the specific people to be found out. Which wealthy families are contributing to this movement?
Also interested in the current state of funding. Surely the Saudis and Qataris know that an expanding IS movement does not bode well for them at this point. They were thinking super short-term.
And fuck, USA should call them out for allowing this to happen under their noses. We’ve called out much better allies than SA and Qatar for much less (see: Israel). I think the USA has all the leverage while the Qataris and Saudis have ever decreasing leverage. If we’re not afraid to fuck with Russia, then we damn sure shouldn’t be afraid of the Saudis and Qataris. [/quote]
The U.S knows who is doing the funding i would bet, they however control the natural resources the west needs, so really its a case of come at me brah.[/quote]
To a certain degree but I still maintain the USA has all the real leverage. The West has more natural resources than ever and that diminishes their leverage. For one these countries are completely dependent on Western companies and professionals to run their countries. And the West can play economic stunts just as well. I don’t even think these countries could manufacture a damn screw on their own.
Qatar’s whole economy is based on LNG shipments to Europe and Asia. Would they ruin their economy just to fuck with us? The reason Qatar is stable is because it gives its citizens a lot of free money. If that were to dry up Qatar is nothing more than a desert with people who aren’t capable of much.
Saudi is more important than Qatar, but would the Saudis dare cut oil production to spite us? Things are different now. All of North America and a lot of South America is going through a gigantic energy revolution. Saudi oil isn’t really important to the USA anymore (it is to allies though). Saudi’s largest enemy is Iran and although it’s unlikely a nuclear deal happens, the Saudi’s are still scarred shitless about it because it makes them expendable. Does SA really want to give the USA a reason to replace them with Iran? I doubt it.
Neither of these countries can afford to pull any economic stunts on the West. This isn’t the 70s.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
I m sure that whatever is done about this, the response will be “measured” and “proportional”. Nothing scares the Jihadi’s more than the possibility that the political winds could blow strong enough for the US to muster a measured and proportional response. [/quote]
Well what can the U.S do? The country is in massive debt, has recently been in two very costly wars and is still propping up the very likely to collapse governments installed there with money and arms.
The U.S can not afford to go to war really and even if they did hatred of the U.S around the world is so strong right now that it could just make things worse.
I would love to see the U.S go in and smash IS but the problem is can they? What do they do if IS is defeated, there is a vacuum in that region after the U.S overthrew regimes, these will eventually be filled and it won’t be by a democrat or an independent, it will be by someone with views and laws we deem horrendous, the U.S can’t stay in that region forever without crippling itself economically.
On the other hand it eventually might need to. This is a very very hard topic and rashness and bravado won’t really help. The U.S has the greatest military power known to man, but its about what comes after the victory. You can’t and won’t defeat insurgencies that have popular backing. They just keep sprouting up. [/quote]
What we can do is handle it the Chicago way. They killed one of ours, now we kill all of them.
The US populace needs to grow up and stop with all this juvenile people aren’t going to like us bullshit. We need to do what is best for us and not worry about what others are going to think about it. Especially people who already don’t like us.
The Jihadists aren’t going to go away, they have designs on the entire world. Sooner or later they are going to come after us. Aside from giving up and surrendering, the only option we have is to go after them and kill all of them.
[/quote]
That isn’t a real plan that is just saying something that makes us feel better.
[/quote]
Not the perfect analogy by any stretch but when the Khans “killed 'em all” (those who fought and wouldn’t surrender) did it enrage the conquered populace and cause their numbers to swell
OR
did the Mongolian Empire last for hundreds of years?
Which one?
Don’t tell me that totally crushing these demons from hell with the hammer of Thor wouldn’t put an end to this for a good long while.[/quote]
So what, we should be the moral equivalent of the Mongols and wipe out entire populations and skin people alive? Also the Mongols were driven back in Russia, their initial massacres in Russia enraged Russians enough to unite them in defeating the mongols.
The reason Qatar and Saudi Arabia have backed anti-Assad forces is largely due to a conflict over proposed oil pipelines.
Iran-Iraq-Syria pipeline versus Qatar-Turkey pipeline.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]BPCorso wrote:
I think the USA has all the leverage while the Qataris and Saudis have ever decreasing leverage. [/quote]
[/quote]
We got a lot of that going on in North America too. Oil production is booming. Saudi’s still need our refinery capacity for their crude.
[quote]BPCorso wrote:
[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
[quote]BPCorso wrote:
[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
[quote]BPCorso wrote:
The people who have funded IS are culpable and I hope the various intelligence communities can figure out where the money came from. I know the various countries in play, but the specific people or families doing it need to be publicly admonished.[/quote]
The people funding them are U.S allies, Qatar and Saudi Arabia. The U.S government has been in bed with the Islamist movement via proxy since the newest incarnation of it began. [/quote]
I know Qatar and Saudi Arabia are the primary nations where the money is coming from. What I want is for the specific people to be found out. Which wealthy families are contributing to this movement?
Also interested in the current state of funding. Surely the Saudis and Qataris know that an expanding IS movement does not bode well for them at this point. They were thinking super short-term.
And fuck, USA should call them out for allowing this to happen under their noses. We’ve called out much better allies than SA and Qatar for much less (see: Israel). I think the USA has all the leverage while the Qataris and Saudis have ever decreasing leverage. If we’re not afraid to fuck with Russia, then we damn sure shouldn’t be afraid of the Saudis and Qataris. [/quote]
The U.S knows who is doing the funding i would bet, they however control the natural resources the west needs, so really its a case of come at me brah.[/quote]
To a certain degree but I still maintain the USA has all the real leverage. The West has more natural resources than ever and that diminishes their leverage. For one these countries are completely dependent on Western companies and professionals to run their countries. And the West can play economic stunts just as well. I don’t even think these countries could manufacture a damn screw on their own.
Qatar’s whole economy is based on LNG shipments to Europe and Asia. Would they ruin their economy just to fuck with us? The reason Qatar is stable is because it gives its citizens a lot of free money. If that were to dry up Qatar is nothing more than a desert with people who aren’t capable of much.
Saudi is more important than Qatar, but would the Saudis dare cut oil production to spite us? Things are different now. All of North America and a lot of South America is going through a gigantic energy revolution. Saudi oil isn’t really important to the USA anymore (it is to allies though). Saudi’s largest enemy is Iran and although it’s unlikely a nuclear deal happens, the Saudi’s are still scarred shitless about it because it makes them expendable. Does SA really want to give the USA a reason to replace them with Iran? I doubt it.
Neither of these countries can afford to pull any economic stunts on the West. This isn’t the 70s.[/quote]
I think the emergence of the new super powers in the east means that they could totally afford to cut us off and only deal with the newly emerging superpowers. I however think both the U.S have the juice still to keep the Saudi’s somewhat in line however the Saudi’s have the leverage to still do shit like fund Jihadists without any ramifications from the U.S.
(Cough) embargo…73
[quote]BPCorso wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]BPCorso wrote:
I think the USA has all the leverage while the Qataris and Saudis have ever decreasing leverage. [/quote]
[/quote]
We got a lot of that going on in North America too. Oil production is booming. Saudi’s still need our refinery capacity for their crude.[/quote]
Yes but the EU is highly dependent on Russia. The Gulf states can supply the EU thereby undermining Russia. See proposed Qatar-Turkey pipeline.
[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
I think if anyone has decreasing hegemony it is the U.S, it is in decline as a super power and with the new emerging future dominant powers in the east Qatar and Saudi Arabia will soon be able to supply to the eastern powers primarily to feed China’s demand for oil.
I think America is well on its way to total decline in the same way the British empire dwindled down after reaching a high peak.[/quote]
I think the USA has a lot of problems, but we’re not in total decline. We have a lot of lazy people here but we still have the best and brightest. The cream of the crop from nations all over the world still want to come here and are coming here. Not all of our immigrants are low-skilled people from Central America. It’s foolish to just proclaim China is inevitably going to be the dominant power. We still have a vastly superior culture among other factors. And “Eastern powers” is vague because the only one I can think of is China. Russia’s prospects aren’t that rosy.
And as I’ve already said, we have a goddamn lot of oil and gas. Our neighbors do too. We also have by far the best energy infrastructure in the world. Other allies outside of North America have good energy prospects or operations as well. All of the oil and gas in the world isn’t in the Middle East. Our infrastructure is also superior, as are our banking and financial systems.
Do you think the Saudi’s and Qataris can build a LNG liquefaction facility on their own? To build refineries on their own? Where do you think these countries buy their weapons from? And no one likes the Chinese or the Russians. They are bad business partners. Countries do business with them when they have to. No one wants China or Russia leading the world, even the countries that hate the USA.
Sorry about the source, but this short article sums up what the civil war is all about:
[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:
[quote]Sifu wrote:
I m sure that whatever is done about this, the response will be “measured” and “proportional”. Nothing scares the Jihadi’s more than the possibility that the political winds could blow strong enough for the US to muster a measured and proportional response. [/quote]
Well what can the U.S do? The country is in massive debt, has recently been in two very costly wars and is still propping up the very likely to collapse governments installed there with money and arms.
The U.S can not afford to go to war really and even if they did hatred of the U.S around the world is so strong right now that it could just make things worse.
I would love to see the U.S go in and smash IS but the problem is can they? What do they do if IS is defeated, there is a vacuum in that region after the U.S overthrew regimes, these will eventually be filled and it won’t be by a democrat or an independent, it will be by someone with views and laws we deem horrendous, the U.S can’t stay in that region forever without crippling itself economically.
On the other hand it eventually might need to. This is a very very hard topic and rashness and bravado won’t really help. The U.S has the greatest military power known to man, but its about what comes after the victory. You can’t and won’t defeat insurgencies that have popular backing. They just keep sprouting up. [/quote]
What we can do is handle it the Chicago way. They killed one of ours, now we kill all of them.
The US populace needs to grow up and stop with all this juvenile people aren’t going to like us bullshit. We need to do what is best for us and not worry about what others are going to think about it. Especially people who already don’t like us.
The Jihadists aren’t going to go away, they have designs on the entire world. Sooner or later they are going to come after us. Aside from giving up and surrendering, the only option we have is to go after them and kill all of them.
[/quote]
That isn’t a real plan that is just saying something that makes us feel better.
[/quote]
What is your plan, and what country are you from?