[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Religion is the problem because it will not agree to the gentle and friendly sterilization and contracepting away of the lower and lower-middle income folk. Today’s secretly desired remedy.[/quote]
It’s a secretly desired remedy that people wait until they want kids to have them?
People are not going to just not have sex. That is a pipe dream. Condoms and birth controls can limit the amounts of unwanted pregnancies and decrease the need for the welfare state. People can wait to have children when they are financially and emotionally ready. Instead of forcing them to be financially and emotionally ready because they had bad luck doing something every human has a drive to do which is sex.
And yet the religious are against these things.
I know we have danced this dance many times Sloth! [/quote]
You can argue this until you are blue in the face, and no matter HOW much logic, reason, or evidence you present, they will stick their head in the sand, talk around but never acknowledge your points and ultimately claim a higher “morality” than you (everyone knows they have a monopoly on the highest morality). Because some 2000 year old goatherds did some good drugs and wrote down that a jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree… They are all insane, you are wasting your time. [/quote]
Excuse me, but we’re having a very civil and mutually respectable conversation. You should see someone about your rage issues. Can’t be good for the blood pressure.
[/quote]
My BP is very healthy, thanks for asking. But can you actually ADDRESS what the points were? Do you actually think that teaching ABSTINENCE to poor/lower middle class income kids is more effective at PREVENTING PREGNANCY than providing them access to contraception, birth control and the ‘morning after’ pill?
Do you think that if all poor kids were compelled somehow to go to church and find “god” that they will stop wanting to fuck?
My bet is that you will dodge this question instead of addressing it.[/quote]
Actually, the problem is that you’re too busy being angry to see that I have already been addressing the issue.
[/quote]I see you sidestepping a lot of issues and not addressing them [quote]
There is an assumption that I join you in this idea that poor people reproducing is a problem. My only problem is in what circumstance. Say, marriage. Your culture sucks for the poor. Sorry, you and your ideology already failed. Don’t get angry with me about it. Your fatherless, childless/casual sex culture is already set on the road to self-induced oblivion. [/quote] MY culture? What are you talking about? I firmly believe that a family is the ideal way to raise a child. I am also PERSONALLY pro LIFE. I would never in a million years abort a baby of mine. I think our society has a lot of problems and that those problems originally stemmed FROM the very values you think we should go back to. Those values, while ideal for a certain subset of the populations, systematically disenfranchised other portions of the population. [quote]
One of us groups of “righteous” surely will inherent the earth your culture will have vacated. In which case, who are the idiots in the end?
[/quote]Are you speaking of religious prophesy with that statement? Or are you quoting something I’m not aware of? What makes you so sure that the “righteous” will inherit the earth? Why wouldn’t a band of hedonistic mercenaries who were better armed?[quote]
Sorry you guys screwed our culture up so bad they have their children out of wedlock so much more often now (fact), but that’s on you. [/quote]Again, I haven’t screwed our culture up at all. I believe in personal liberty, but also taking responsibility. I think religion is very harmful to healthy people as it absolves them of personal responsibility and enables repetitive bad behavior, while at the same time, forbidding a young person to end an unwanted pregnancy which will result in a child that he/she is not prepared to responsibly take care of. In my humble opinion that is the HEIGHT of irresponsibility.[quote]
I’m sorry that you guys have to look at the poor nowadays, because of the above, like a pest control problem. “How do we get them little buggers to stop laying so many damn eggs?!” I suppose it’s an acceptable consequence of true “liberty.” Hell, your desirables (as opposed to the undesirables above) aren’t having enough to support themselves, and they’re the real threat to the budget.
[/quote]
I’ve been poor. I got out of it. If I can do it, anyone can. If you read what I’ve written in this thread, my “solutions” (primarily) to these social issues focus on empowerment, not contraception. And I also clearly stated that when people are empowered, they are far more likely to settle into stable, healthy families. Our solution is the same, the way we arrive at it is different.
And yet impoverished and uneducated people having large amounts of kids is a problem is it not? Wouldn’t you agree that people already in poverty should try to avoid having big families? It isn’t like we don’t understand the emotional and financial costs of having a family, they are enormous. Are people who can only work minimum wage jobs able to financially support large families? Shouldn’t a per-requisite for having a kid be being able to take care of one?