America Bashing

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]orion wrote:
hedo wrote:

I think that’s what drives the America bashers over the edge. The realization that Americans really don’t pay them any mind. Especially the one’s on T nation.

That drives noone over the edge.

Ignoring the world while bombing it is only just about the most stupid thing one can too.

Let us see how many 9-11 it takes until that fact sinks to the bottom of the intellectual food chain.
[/quote]

You’d have to look up to see the edge. You fell a long time ago. And bye the way still don’t care what you think.

62

[quote]hedo wrote: Well a lot of things ephrem. Chief among them is economic opportunity. In the US, it is entirely possible to come here, work hard, develop a better idea or concept and sell it. No matter where you live in the world. If you have what it takes chances are you want to be in the US taking a shot at it. We don’t care where your born, what school you went to, if your a social democrat or not or what tribe or clan you belong to.

If you had a great idea that would revolutionize an industry and needed financing to implement your plan would you go to Holland or the US?

Western Europe has been open to letting immigrants in but not really assimilating them. It’s coming back to haunt them now. You have provided them a guaranteed outcome (social welfare) we provide freedom of opportunity. It’s been that way for 200+ yrs. It’s a new concept for Europe and it may or may not work out.

A large part of the world sends their best and brightest to the US for higher education. Look at the top 25 or 50 universities in the world. Guess who has the most. How about major innovations? Technological change? Research? Medicine? Many of our leading folks in this field come from somewhere else to ply their trade. We also have a lot of homegrown folks too.

I don’t take the America bashers too seriously. Most are miserable fucks who will always be miserable about something. America is just the latest obsession.

As to the OP’s observation. Who knows what kids think while hiking. I don’t talk about politics when I’m on vacation. If people don’t like me for who I am…to be honest they can go fuck themselves. I really don’t care. After they get to know me, if they still don’t like me, I probably will not give a fuck about that either.

I think that’s what drives the America bashers over the edge. The realization that Americans really don’t pay them any mind. Especially the one’s on T nation.

[/quote]

…if i had an idea that would revolutionize something, it would not matter where i get financial backing , would it? Thanks for answering the question btw, i appreciate that. But you raise a good point: it appears [is clear] that americans and europeans, in general, have different views on what is important in life.

From my POV money, social succes, status and material possessions aren’t very high on my list. The consequences of the opposite are too much of a burden on the quality of life, and therefore i don’t bother with it. And i know that is a feeling shared by many…

…i think you over emphasize the negative aspects of immigration. Granted, it is in dire need of regulation, but don’t forget: the US relies too heavily on disguised slave labor by mexicans and other illegal immigrants to be judgmental about european immigration policies…

…as far as your assesment of america bashers go: by thinking they do not have any validity, that their perception is tainted by other aspects than anything truthful, you [in general] do yourself a great disservice. Actions speak louder than words, and when actions contradict what’s said, a nation looses credibility. For a nation that is at the top of the foodchain it’s of little consequence, but that does not mean anyone critical of that nation is talking out of their ass…

…mankind is what it is: the only species of mammal that’s able to reflect on behaviour and change that behaviour if necessary. What people are trying to tell the USA is simply to please change, 'coz [whether you like it or not] it’s making a mess of things right now…

63

[quote]lixy wrote:

Which democratically elected government did we overthrow?

Are you serious?

  • Chile
  • Guatemala
  • Congo
  • Iran
  • Haiti
    …
    [/quote]

wow.
I fell out of my chair on that one…
You got me there uhhh
Maybe you did not understand what elected means…

Like a free vote with all who wish to vote can.
Like a open debate with opposing view points that don’t end up being jailed or shot.
Any way, this web site is not freedom it is monitored and at times filtered, but it’s good we can all chat about the Serious biz of bullshit

Thanks T-Nation

64

[quote]orion wrote:
hedo wrote:

I think that’s what drives the America bashers over the edge. The realization that Americans really don’t pay them any mind. Especially the one’s on T nation.

That drives noone over the edge.

Ignoring the world while bombing it is only just about the most stupid thing one can too.

Let us see how many 9-11 it takes until that fact sinks to the bottom of the intellectual food chain.
[/quote]

And colonizing the world was smart?

How come Lixy can bring up many “democracies” the US have overthrown over the years, but we can not bring up the crimes the Europeans or Muslims did when they were leaders of the world?

Let me ask you, who did exactly did we bomb to bring about 9-11? Were the muslims attacking us because of Germany, Japan, Vietnam or Korea, or Grenade, or Kuwait or none of the above?

HH had a good point, we’re not supposed to hate the poor mulsims, but there sure is a lot of hatred out there for us. They can bomb us to hell, but when we strike back, we’re the bad guys? How the hell does this work?

65

[quote]Malevolence wrote:
From what I’ve heard, most foreigners are pretty disgusted with American Foreign policy and American Politics, but they are still generally okay with American Citizens.[/quote]

I don’t think many people really know what America’s foreign policy is. Its easy to hate a government, I still welcome Americans with open arms… well I welcome the good looking girls with open arms… The guys can have a handshake.

66

[quote]Simon Forsyth wrote:
Malevolence wrote:
From what I’ve heard, most foreigners are pretty disgusted with American Foreign policy and American Politics, but they are still generally okay with American Citizens.

I don’t think many people really know what America’s foreign policy is. Its easy to hate a government, I still welcome Americans with open arms… well I welcome the good looking girls with open arms… The guys can have a handshake.[/quote]

I want a hug, you big lunk.

67

[quote]ephrem wrote:
hedo wrote: Well a lot of things ephrem. Chief among them is economic opportunity. In the US, it is entirely possible to come here, work hard, develop a better idea or concept and sell it. No matter where you live in the world. If you have what it takes chances are you want to be in the US taking a shot at it. We don’t care where your born, what school you went to, if your a social democrat or not or what tribe or clan you belong to.

If you had a great idea that would revolutionize an industry and needed financing to implement your plan would you go to Holland or the US?

Western Europe has been open to letting immigrants in but not really assimilating them. It’s coming back to haunt them now. You have provided them a guaranteed outcome (social welfare) we provide freedom of opportunity. It’s been that way for 200+ yrs. It’s a new concept for Europe and it may or may not work out.

A large part of the world sends their best and brightest to the US for higher education. Look at the top 25 or 50 universities in the world. Guess who has the most. How about major innovations? Technological change? Research? Medicine? Many of our leading folks in this field come from somewhere else to ply their trade. We also have a lot of homegrown folks too.

I don’t take the America bashers too seriously. Most are miserable fucks who will always be miserable about something. America is just the latest obsession.

As to the OP’s observation. Who knows what kids think while hiking. I don’t talk about politics when I’m on vacation. If people don’t like me for who I am…to be honest they can go fuck themselves. I really don’t care. After they get to know me, if they still don’t like me, I probably will not give a fuck about that either.

I think that’s what drives the America bashers over the edge. The realization that Americans really don’t pay them any mind. Especially the one’s on T nation.

…if i had an idea that would revolutionize something, it would not matter where i get financial backing , would it? Thanks for answering the question btw, i appreciate that. But you raise a good point: it appears [is clear] that americans and europeans, in general, have different views on what is important in life.

From my POV money, social succes, status and material possessions aren’t very high on my list. The consequences of the opposite are too much of a burden on the quality of life, and therefore i don’t bother with it. And i know that is a feeling shared by many…

…i think you over emphasize the negative aspects of immigration. Granted, it is in dire need of regulation, but don’t forget: the US relies too heavily on disguised slave labor by mexicans and other illegal immigrants to be judgmental about european immigration policies…

…as far as your assesment of america bashers go: by thinking they do not have any validity, that their perception is tainted by other aspects than anything truthful, you [in general] do yourself a great disservice. Actions speak louder than words, and when actions contradict what’s said, a nation looses credibility. For a nation that is at the top of the foodchain it’s of little consequence, but that does not mean anyone critical of that nation is talking out of their ass…

…mankind is what it is: the only species of mammal that’s able to reflect on behaviour and change that behaviour if necessary. What people are trying to tell the USA is simply to please change, 'coz [whether you like it or not] it’s making a mess of things right now…[/quote]

ephrem

Sounds like you weren’t really looking for an answer. It appears you already made your mind up and were simply looking for a sounding board.

I’m going to guess you are a young person with idle time on your hands. I could be wrong. You make the mistake of assuming those who are accomplished in life have some sort of skewed value system. Therefore I’ll assume you are just starting out. Big mistake. Sometimes those who have accumulated a lot and built things just try harder. Not just in business but in life. That’s why most Americans reject socialism and prefer to rise and fall on their own merits. It’s a fundamental difference.

And by the way. The US has been “told” things by other countries who assume they know better since it was founded, on an ideal, rather then a geopgraphic coincidence. Simply because someone tells you something doesn’t mean you should follow it. (remember pyramid training)Europe has a long history of diplomatic duplicity and self interest. The EU has only served to solidify this and added a collective bent to it.

The crux of the problem is that the US doesn’t derive it’s credibility from the EU. That’s difficult for a somewhat educated and politically active population to come to grips with so they lash out where they can. Hikers in the mountains, political forums on US bodybuilding sites etc. In the end it means nothing to me, most of the vets who post here or ultimately the leadership of the country.

68

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Who gives a shit? Americans rule. We run shit, and whoever doesn’t want to be down with us is forced to do what we say. Everybody watches our tv shows, and listens to our music. All those americans that couldn’t take the bashing over there are soul searching anyway. [/quote]

You need to check the bigger world around you, speaking as an Aussie who has done some traveling over seas I just wanna let you know a few things.

  1. A lot of people choose to side with America for protection (including Australia), yet there are many countries that are older that have said “no” to America and the three big ones off the top of my head are Germany, Russia and France, none of these countries are forced to do what America says.

  2. Regarding the TV shows, well did you know that here in Australia we watch a lot of our own shows, Russians watch Russian shows and so on. If you wanna talk about Movies there is probably more money in Bollywood than there is Hollywood.

  3. America has some really fine artists/Bands there is no denying that but so Does Australia, the Beatles were English and other European countries have their own singers/bands/artists.

  4. I think that people who are 'American Bashers don’t like people with your out look. Seriously grow up, get a job, and see the world. there is so much history and culture to immerse yourself in.

No I want you to answer a few questions for me:

a) Do you think gay people are sinners and evil?
b) are you even in high school yet?
c) Is it possible that other countries are using America (see my point about protection).
d) Where do you get your information?
e) If America is so good why is it that 3/4 of the world dont want to live there?

Anyway you keep on hating the world and one day when your being arrogant and some Australian, British, German, Russian or even someone from the middle east (maybe even a Frenchman) punches you dead in the face… Dont say I didn’t try and help you.

Your views are flawed and tell your mum (yes thats the way Australians and englich write MOM) to send you to a better school.

69

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Simon Forsyth wrote:
Malevolence wrote:
From what I’ve heard, most foreigners are pretty disgusted with American Foreign policy and American Politics, but they are still generally okay with American Citizens.

I don’t think many people really know what America’s foreign policy is. Its easy to hate a government, I still welcome Americans with open arms… well I welcome the good looking girls with open arms… The guys can have a handshake.

I want a hug, you big lunk.[/quote]

Lets hug it out man

70

[quote]hedo wrote: Sounds like you weren’t really looking for an answer. It appears you already made your mind up and were simply looking for a sounding board.

I’m going to guess you are a young person with idle time on your hands. I could be wrong. You make the mistake of assuming those who are accomplished in life have some sort of skewed value system. Therefore I’ll assume you are just starting out. Big mistake. Sometimes those who have accumulated a lot and built things just try harder. Not just in business but in life. That’s why most Americans reject socialism and prefer to rise and fall on their own merits. It’s a fundamental difference.

And by the way. The US has been “told” things by other countries who assume they know better since it was founded, on an ideal, rather then a geopgraphic coincidence. Simply because someone tells you something doesn’t mean you should follow it. (remember pyramid training)Europe has a long history of diplomatic duplicity and self interest. The EU has only served to solidify this and added a collective bent to it.

The crux of the problem is that the US doesn’t derive it’s credibility from the EU. That’s difficult for a somewhat educated and politically active population to come to grips with so they lash out where they can. Hikers in the mountains, political forums on US bodybuilding sites etc. In the end it means nothing to me, most of the vets who post here or ultimately the leadership of the country.
[/quote]

…you hit the nail on the head, but for the wrong reasons, Hedo. I own a house, have a steady job, average income and used the affluence available to me to, during my 20’s, resolve childhood issues, find peace of mind, and subsequently uncovered an indepedant inner freedom. Independant from nationality, individuality, material possessions, peer pressure and society in general. At 36 all that is life is worth living, fearless…

…the chest beating that americans tend to do is foreign to me, and to many i know. Western Europeans’ nationality in general only defines a common background, but does not determin ones self-image [in general] the way being american appears to be vital to an american’s self-image…

…what constitutes ‘making it’ anyway? What does it mean to you personally, Hedo?

…the sad fact of the matter is that the USA has no credibility left anymore. It just hasn’t sunk in with most americans yet. The principles america valued have been dismantled by circumstance and deliberate intent, but somehow that does not seem to matter to most. Could you consider that some of the america bashers hate to see that, and because of that criticise the US?

…all nations fall. Every society in history ended, and ours will end at one point too. What is there really to get all excited about?

71

[quote]Simon Forsyth wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Simon Forsyth wrote:
Malevolence wrote:
From what I’ve heard, most foreigners are pretty disgusted with American Foreign policy and American Politics, but they are still generally okay with American Citizens.

I don’t think many people really know what America’s foreign policy is. Its easy to hate a government, I still welcome Americans with open arms… well I welcome the good looking girls with open arms… The guys can have a handshake.

I want a hug, you big lunk.

Lets hug it out man[/quote]

Where’s mine!

72

[quote]Simon Forsyth wrote:

  1. America has some really fine artists/Bands there is no denying that but so Does Australia, the Beatles were English and other European countries have their own singers/bands/artists.
    [/quote]

Man I love the Aussies…
As for the music, I thank god each and every day for AC/DC.
One of, if not the best, hard rock band of all time…

73

[quote]inthego wrote:
Simon Forsyth wrote:

  1. America has some really fine artists/Bands there is no denying that but so Does Australia, the Beatles were English and other European countries have their own singers/bands/artists.

Man I love the Aussies…
As for the music, I thank god each and every day for AC/DC.
One of, if not the best, hard rock band of all time…

[/quote]

Akka Dakka they are pretty kick ass.

74

[quote]pat36 wrote:
Simon Forsyth wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Simon Forsyth wrote:
Malevolence wrote:
From what I’ve heard, most foreigners are pretty disgusted with American Foreign policy and American Politics, but they are still generally okay with American Citizens.

I don’t think many people really know what America’s foreign policy is. Its easy to hate a government, I still welcome Americans with open arms… well I welcome the good looking girls with open arms… The guys can have a handshake.

I want a hug, you big lunk.

Lets hug it out man

Where’s mine![/quote]

You can have one too

75

[quote]hedo wrote:

Well a lot of things ephrem. Chief among them is economic opportunity. In the US, it is entirely possible to come here, work hard, develop a better idea or concept and sell it. No matter where you live in the world. If you have what it takes chances are you want to be in the US taking a shot at it. We don’t care where your born, what school you went to, if your a social democrat or not or what tribe or clan you belong to.

If you had a great idea that would revolutionize an industry and needed financing to implement your plan would you go to Holland or the US?

Western Europe has been open to letting immigrants in but not really assimilating them. It’s coming back to haunt them now. You have provided them a guaranteed outcome (social welfare) we provide freedom of opportunity. It’s been that way for 200+ yrs. It’s a new concept for Europe and it may or may not work out.

A large part of the world sends their best and brightest to the US for higher education. Look at the top 25 or 50 universities in the world. Guess who has the most. How about major innovations? Technological change? Research? Medicine? Many of our leading folks in this field come from somewhere else to ply their trade. We also have a lot of homegrown folks too.

I don’t take the America bashers too seriously. Most are miserable fucks who will always be miserable about something. America is just the latest obsession.

As to the OP’s observation. Who knows what kids think while hiking. I don’t talk about politics when I’m on vacation. If people don’t like me for who I am…to be honest they can go fuck themselves. I really don’t care. After they get to know me, if they still don’t like me, I probably will not give a fuck about that either.

I think that’s what drives the America bashers over the edge. The realization that Americans really don’t pay them any mind. Especially the one’s on T-Nation.

[/quote]

Best post I have read in 4 years. Even the haters play their role to a tee.

I would only add that America fears no country - and if you fuck with us you will find out shortly that we fuck back twice as hard.

Fuck lixy and her lies. Fuck Orion and his lies. If they had a life or a fucking country to be proud of, they wouldn’t spend countless hours repeating the same bullshit lies on a goddamned internet body building forum.

America could give a fuck about what 2 jew murderers think about our foreign policy. When you have conviction of purpose - little pussy assed bitch and moaners are little more than gnat farts.

I cannot fathom living somewhere that had no pride. Pride is what America is built on. It starts with your home town. Then your high school, then your college. Vibrato is second nature. Especially in Texas.

Love it, or hate it - it matters not a single fucking bit to me. I will swagger. I will brag. If you don’t like it, get off your lazy keyboard warrior ass and fucking do something about it.

76

[quote]Simon Forsyth wrote:

  1. A lot of people choose to side with America for protection (including Australia), yet there are many countries that are older that have said “no” to America and the three big ones off the top of my head are Germany, Russia and France, none of these countries are forced to do what America says.
    [/quote]

And still of all those older countries, America is the oldest continous democracy. We must be doing something right.

I read what you are saying and agree with much of what you are writing.

I am still proud of my people and country.

When most of the world thinks of opportunity they think America. It just is, they don’t think Sweden with its terrible immigration policy. They don’t say France with their racial problems, and they don’t say Spain with their religious politics. They say America because there is something here or a person here that they identify with. They’ve all heard of an American success story from someone they know.

Australia is a damn commendable country. You guys have answered every call from the UN and always lend a hand in a crisis anywhere in the world. Nice to have you brash folks around.

78

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Simon Forsyth wrote:

  1. A lot of people choose to side with America for protection (including Australia), yet there are many countries that are older that have said “no” to America and the three big ones off the top of my head are Germany, Russia and France, none of these countries are forced to do what America says.

And still of all those older countries, America is the oldest continous democracy. We must be doing something right.

I read what you are saying and agree with much of what you are writing.

I am still proud of my people and country.

When most of the world thinks of opportunity they think America. It just is, they don’t think Sweden with its terrible immigration policy. They don’t say France with their racial problems, and they don’t say Spain with their religious politics. They say America because there is something here or a person here that they identify with. They’ve all heard of an American success story from someone they know.

Australia is a damn commendable country. You guys have answered every call from the UN and always lend a hand in a crisis anywhere in the world. Nice to have you brash folks around.[/quote]

I agree that Americans have a right to be proud, your history is colorful and you did beat the British, I just hate when Americans think that America is the be all and end all. Your right about it being the land of opportunity and I know it is still seen as that now.

Its nice that you acknowledge Australia’s contribution to the UN and the fact that we always help America when and where we can. Like I stated previously being friends with America is good for us so I dont see that we would stop anytime soon.

One thing that pissed me off is during the last presidential campaign John Kerry was asked about Australia and what he thought of our contribution to the War on Terror and he responded saying that we shoudl have offered more military personnel because the number we had given wasn’t as many as what America had he went on to say that we haven’t really helped not even in WWII, Korea and Vietnam.

It really pissed me off because of family members who have fought in all major conflicts and I think he was just being an uppity yank twat. As far as numbers of troops in the war on terror there are a few facts that that Kerry needs to be aware of.

~ We are doing great work with the small number of soldiers we have (like our military history has proven).
~ We have a smaller military force than America.
~ We have always been recognized as being a great force throughout each major conflict that we get our hands dirty with.

Anyway Rant over. I see where your coming from and I appreciate and respect you opinion (I would even say I agree with it). I just didn’t agree with the arrogance of that fucking twat who thought that America was the be all and end all and had no clue about history.

Also I would like to point out a book called 18 hours, its a great read and have a look at it on Amazon, its the story of one of our Special Forces guys doing pretty well in Afghanistan. Our Special Forces (SAS and 4RAR) are very respected amongst your military.

79

Here is the way I see it. America does have its short comings we all do but it is still one hell of a country and the citizens of America have a right to be proud. Those that honestly hate America fail to see all of the good things to come from America… Shit if it weren’t for America fuckers like Lixy wouldn’t be typing on this here inter web… So they can stick that in their pipe and smoke it…

Fuck why cant people just think for a little bit.

NB - Lixy, I understand that your life isn’t as good as you would like it to be, so go and buy a toblerone and munch on it for a while… Close your eyes and think about sweet nothings for a while… With enough medication you don’t have to see the world the same.

In other words:

Dear Lixy we hate you love from us.

80

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
I am still proud of my people and country. [/quote]

Nothing wrong with that.

For good reasons. Hollywood is hammering them with “The American Dream”.

What’s so terrible about Sweden’s immigration policy? You could get into the US far easier. That’s not to say the recent wave of Iraqi refugees didn’t impact the country, but you know who to blame for that.

As opposed to the American South? Get real!

Please elaborate. Do the Spanish prime minister claim to receive his orders from God?

They did? I wouldn’t be so sure about that.

From personal experience, most people would pick Canada over the US. It’s not about making bucks. It’s about quality of life.