Not a bad plan. We should get other countries involved to try to snuff out terrorism, but first the nations of the world need to actually define what terrorism is. They can not seem to get over this first hurtle.
The other problem is the Islamic ME countries need to WANT to change. With the exportation and exploitation of extremism, level heads need to rise to the fore front, but it seems an impossibility in a situation where any rabble rouser can become an important political-religious leader and weak willed individuals blindly follow his every whim.
We need to convince them that our morals are not just “another choice” but are essentially the civilized and human choice. Foreign Affairs just had a few great articles on the subject, one was by Tony Blair I believe.
Anyway, I don’t believe raping Iraq and Iran for oil (as a few have already admitted to that being what our purpose is) and allowing our contractors to benefit for little and shoddy work is going to convince them of that. As well, Israel needs to give up Jerusalem. Now. As in right now.[/quote]
I do not think we need to convince them of anything.
We need to get rid of our dependency on oil and watch their societies break down without the oil money.
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Anyway, I don’t believe raping Iraq and Iran for oil (as a few have already admitted to that being what our purpose is) and allowing our contractors to benefit for little and shoddy work is going to convince them of that. As well, Israel needs to give up Jerusalem. Now. As in right now.[/quote]
You seem to have a disconnect between how you live your life, and what needs to be done to support that life.
If you use plastic, if you drive a car, if you ride on a bus, if you ride the subway, or train, if you enjoy electricity, or heat you home or apartment - you are as much a part of the “rape” of Iran/Iraq as anyone.
As for giving Jeruselum “back” to anyone - what the hell is that going to do? Israel has given just about everything back that they have acquired since 1967 - and things are no better.
How about we take the muzzle off of Israel? The ME - particularly the militant islamic ME - are cowards. The use of force by Israel has been the only proven method to attain even a modicum of peace in that region.
You seem to have a disconnect between how you live your life, and what needs to be done to support that life.
If you use plastic, if you drive a car, if you ride on a bus, if you ride the subway, or train, if you enjoy electricity, or heat you home or apartment - you are as much a part of the “rape” of Iran/Iraq as anyone.
[/quote]
When most of the oil the US uses does not come from the ME and the average American uses twice as much energy as the average WE without much to show for it, it doubt that there is any link between “raping” any country in the ME and the US economic welfare.
Unless you mean the negative impact it has on oil prices in Venezuela, Mexico and Canada where your oil really comes from.
Doesn´t add up.
Unless of course you are an oil company. Then, buying a few seats for neocons has some serious ROI.
Headhunter states: “America is facing this life-and-death challenge, says Steyn, because of the Western world’s demographic collapse and mass Muslim immigration into Europe, which threatens to turn parts of Europe into majority-Muslim countries by mid-century”
Not a bad plan. We should get other countries involved to try to snuff out terrorism, but first the nations of the world need to actually define what terrorism is. They can not seem to get over this first hurtle.
The other problem is the Islamic ME countries need to WANT to change. With the exportation and exploitation of extremism, level heads need to rise to the fore front, but it seems an impossibility in a situation where any rabble rouser can become an important political-religious leader and weak willed individuals blindly follow his every whim.
We need to convince them that our morals are not just “another choice” but are essentially the civilized and human choice. Foreign Affairs just had a few great articles on the subject, one was by Tony Blair I believe.
[/quote]
It’s that kind of thinking that got us into this mess. We can’t convince them or change their hearts about a thing. The what Bush’s agenda was. He figured if we get rid of Saddam, we can gain favor with in the ME by establishing democracy in Iraq. I don’t have to tell you his plan failed. You aren’t convincing them of shit.
My plan/hope is much less lofty. I just don’t want them to bomb us, kill us or threaten us. Like Orion said, the best way to fuck them up is to become energy independant as fast as possible. That will shake the region up a hell of a lot more than any daisy cutter we could drop on them, for sure.
[quote]
Anyway, I don’t believe raping Iraq and Iran for oil (as a few have already admitted to that being what our purpose is) and allowing our contractors to benefit for little and shoddy work is going to convince them of that. As well, Israel needs to give up Jerusalem. Now. As in right now.[/quote]
I really can’t believe this myth persists. We already had their oil and at a hell of a lot cheaper than we get it now. Getting oil out of Iraq was a lot easier when Saddam was in place. No we went in there to establish democracy and change their “hearts and minds”. We’d have an easier time sqeezing oil out of a rock. Oil was more plentiful and a hell of a lot cheaper before we went in there.
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Headhunter states: “America is facing this life-and-death challenge, says Steyn, because of the Western world’s demographic collapse and mass Muslim immigration into Europe, which threatens to turn parts of Europe into majority-Muslim countries by mid-century”
Is America at war with Muslims?[/quote]
Ideologically, yes. As Osama’s #2 man said, Islam worships death while the West worships life.
Islam has buried within it a death-wish. The Al-Qaeda, the purest form of Islam, actually takes the premises seriously.
I think you are confusing Muslims with Islamic extremist and fundamentalists, and if you speak of Muslims in the manner that you are then you are being racist
Also the man you quote as saying Europe will be over run and taken over by Muslims is a complete and utter cock to state such bollox, I suggest you would do better learning from someone else
[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Ideologically, yes. As Osama’s #2 man said, Islam worships death while the West worships life.
That’s a load of horse.[/quote]
What, that he said it? Or that you disagree with what he said?
You’re a Muslim, Lixy. If someone pointed out a part of the Koran that said to go kill a non-Muslim, what would you do?
These extremists must be getting their ideas from somewhere, right? Followers don’t gather unless somewhere in the Koran it says to kill non-Muslims and strike down the West. Otherwise, no adherents. I therefore claim that there must be something in the Koran which the extremist leaders are showing to potential adherents that convinces them to do what they do.
You wouldn’t strap on a bomb vest and walk into a Stockholm restaurant unless you had incontrivertible evidence that God wanted you to do this.
What is it Lixy? I’d like to read it where Allah tells them to go commit murder.
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
I think you are confusing Muslims with Islamic extremist and fundamentalists, and if you speak of Muslims in the manner that you are then you are being racist
Also the man you quote as saying Europe will be over run and taken over by Muslims is a complete and utter cock to state such bollox, I suggest you would do better learning from someone else[/quote]
What race are Muslims?
Do you know what demographics is? Do you understand what happens when one group shrinks and the other group breeds like rabbits?
Regarding the Islamic faith worshipping death and such. I heard this too. I didn’t hear it from the 2nd in command though. I cant remember specifically where I heard this but it sounded like;
That in Islamic faith, blowing someone up is looked upon with a positive view. Whereas Christian faith would think the opposite.
The problem with that is you have extremists from both Christianity and Islam who have fucked up views of how their book of faith is to be interpreted. Which ends up being a gigantic grab ass game of “my dad can beat up your dad”.
If wish we could just put all the extremists in to a colliseum and have them fight, since thats what they think it’s about anyways. At least then we can get back to important stuff. Instead of who’s religion is the best.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
What, that he said it?
Yep. If you can dig up anything that resembles your statement, I’ll get you a cookie.
Don’t interpret that as me sticking my neck out for the murderous scum that Zawahiri and his crew are. Getting facts straight never hurt anyone.[/quote]
You obviously know the Koran inside and outside, backwards and forwards…where are they getting this hatred for the infidel if not from the Koran?
You could come back with your usual US hatred, but before the US, it was the British, French, ect, before them Christian Europe, Indians (from India), Turks, Africans, and who ever else the Muslims attacked and persecuted since their inception.
I could show you parts of the old Testament that talk about murdering non-believers which people could take out of context as a pretext to kill. You mean to tell me nothing like that exists in the Koran?
Or are the mullahs making up quoted passages out of the air when they incite the masses?
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
I think you are confusing Muslims with Islamic extremist and fundamentalists, and if you speak of Muslims in the manner that you are then you are being racist
Also the man you quote as saying Europe will be over run and taken over by Muslims is a complete and utter cock to state such bollox, I suggest you would do better learning from someone else
What race are Muslims?
Do you know what demographics is? Do you understand what happens when one group shrinks and the other group breeds like rabbits?
[/quote]
What I understand is that you stated that Europe will be over run with Muslims and that this will be a bad thing, which means you are saying that Muslims are bad and if you say negative things about a person or group of people due to their colour creed race or religion then you are being racist.
I have been around here for a while and have always respected you and enjoyed your posts but in this instance you are regurgitating this guys one unfounded and inacurate racists bile mate and its not nice
there are around 1.2 million Muslims living in the UK which is 2% of the total population
how does your friend predict that over 60 million
muslims are going to come into Britain to make them a majoritive religion?
How does not liking a religion and its extremist followers racist? I like Hindus and Jains, but dislike those who use their religion as an excuse to murder. Further, there MUST be something in their Book that the leaders use to get young Muslims to do suicides, like where they today killed children getting candy and toys from American soldiers.
That being the case, I question the religion and its tenets.
you are fully entilted to your view point, but it is a racist viewpoint and I wanted to warn you about that becuase in my country to express racist opninions can get you into trouble even posting them on a internet forum can have retributions.
Not all Muslims are like you say they are, many are peace loving people there are over 9 million Muslims living in the US.
Maybe not so many in Texas, but if ALL Muslims were as bad as you say they are I think those 9 million people would be causing you some serious grief right now.
the comments made by the guy you quoted are not far from inciting racial hatred and almost condone a religious war.
I think you are being a bit brain washed by some serious BS propoganda and its a shame you have to quote his views to back up your own racial hatred.
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
you are fully entilted to your view point, but it is a racist viewpoint and I wanted to warn you about that becuase in my country to express racist opninions can get you into trouble even posting them on a internet forum can have retributions.[/quote]
Now you’ve piqued my interest. What kind of trouble?[quote]
Not all Muslims are like you say they are, many are peace loving people there are over 9 million Muslims living in the US.[/quote]
Of course that’s true. But those Muslims have become secularized. In short, they’re shitty Muslims. Such is true of Christians as well. The only Christians not going around and killing people are the shitty ones…like me. The Koran really isn’t that much worse than the Old Testament.
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
you are fully entilted to your view point, but it is a racist viewpoint and I wanted to warn you about that becuase in my country to express racist opninions can get you into trouble even posting them on a internet forum can have retributions.
Not all Muslims are like you say they are, many are peace loving people there are over 9 million Muslims living in the US.
Maybe not so many in Texas, but if ALL Muslims were as bad as you say they are I think those 9 million people would be causing you some serious grief right now.
the comments made by the guy you quoted are not far from inciting racial hatred and almost condone a religious war.
I think you are being a bit brain washed by some serious BS propoganda and its a shame you have to quote his views to back up your own racial hatred.[/quote]
Until you can explain how disliking a religion, most especially its extremist adherents, is ‘racist’, I’m afraid that the conversation is at an end.
Unless of course you’re trolling and simply hate American. Now that would be a worthwhile discussion. Based upon what you keep saying, I’m beginning to think you’re trolling. Cool! Let’s rock!!!
