[quote]gorangers0525 wrote:
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
[quote]Acyren wrote:
i did 5/3/1 last year, it was great, got me to 230 bench from 190, 315 squat and 400dl, 160 OHP. [/quote]
You’ve been lifting for 14 YEARS and these are you’re 155lbs!!![/quote]
Fixed
[/quote]
DAFAQ???
doing to much NEVER was your problem
why you got to be hating instead of helping??
it is called natural(drug free), I’d really like to see the numbers of 155 natural 32 year old males that are drug free and have not powerlifted/weight lifted without coaching of any sort (trained athlete), no personal trainers and then i can see where i sit.
i never worked out for strength so i have nothing to be ashamed of, those numbers are decent, i guess i excel in other things. big chest meant no Barbell bench work, since dumbbells IMO builds a better chest, and 26" legs meant no need for squats that much. body building is all about tempo for me and feeling the muscle work. i mainly worked on symmetry, and i have achieved my goals in that. i just like to conquer new grounds and do better.
back in the days we had to learn things on our own, no one gave free advice on this type of information, nothing was available so freely and such great site as this did not exsist, so unless you went to the hardcore gym and the gym guy thought you stuff, you be pretty SOL, and there was not this many programs out there, so you had to trial and error and figure it out.
Not all of us are naturally gifted or natural I should say the least and recover in 2 hours. specially as you get older it gets much harder. i want to see the critics do a 4 1 3 0 bench for 12 reps with perfect form and see their numbers.
Honestly you aren’t at a stage where you can blame genetics, drugs,age (you’re in most peoples prime), professional training (most lifters aren’t trained) or anything else for your numbers. If you don’t want to weigh more than 155 thats fine I guess, I was just messing around. But thats no fun lol. I’d get on a real program thats been proven to work instead of doing something you make up.
Also do 100-200 band pull aparts a day. This will fix your upper back problem fast and will most likely keep your shoulders healthy.
I am not the biggest guy on here, nor am I the strongest so pleaase take my opinion with a grain of salt. You are doing a strength based program with no supplements aside from protein and you eat more like a fitness model than a strength athlete. I start throwing some high calorie stuff in your diet, red meat, something like that. Maaybe look into a intra-post workout supplement too. Just my two cents Hope this helps and good luck
saying prime is true if you are jacked up on every substance out there. don’t forget most top athletes are done and retire early 30s. 30 some year old might be prime in muscle density and strength, but body fat loss and physical performance/speed/agility/reflexes they are no where near their prime. more than likely it took them long to be good at something, if they had the same information since they were 16, and practiced it since then, their primes would be 23-24. i am no expert, i could be wrong, just talking from my own experience.
I used to do band pulls with 5/3/1 i just have not done it, i will give it a try, hopefully it won’t affect cleans. my 6x6 cleans is coming up tomorrow.
I choose to stay 150-155lb since i am only 5 6" tall, i can be much bigger, but at the end of the day, we all like the opposite sex looking at us like a piece of meat, i really don’t know of too many women that like a stocky muscular/bodybuilder look, so i liked to keep it happy medium. I used to be 192lb and know the feeling of being big. I am currently 170lb and been eating well, high calories, recovery has been good, except the days i can’t drop the bar from cleans, then i pay for it with back pain for few days. My technique is also getting better and getting strong, so it is much smoother.
Which supplement would you recommend that you’d think it will help me recover? and perform better? reasons why and their brands would be great.
Oh Jesus. This is just hilarious.
You do not need to be on “substances” to get strong. Yes I used to take creatine and preworkout supplements a couple years ago but I’ve gotten much stronger training smarter without it than training stupidly with it. The only thing I take is caffeine to wake me up for morning workouts or to focus when going for a PR. Even protein shakes aren’t necessary if you can get in at least 4 solid meals a day. There are no excuses. Training smart and knowing how and why a person’s body responds to different training methods are reasons why people progress quickly. Most people can still get stronger in their 30s. Especially if they haven’t reached their potential. I mean potential as in someone giving it their all if $100 million were on the line.
Supplements are supplements. They don’t replace smart training and recovery.
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
Oh Jesus. This is just hilarious.[/quote]
A, says you are 19. so yah, 19 lol.
B, Strength Standards: Are You Strong? considering many years of trial and error and perfecting form. I’d say i am doing “good” in all my lifts and great in a few.
C, i know about supplements, i was talking to the other person that thinks supplements are a must. I only take caffeine, whey and EC stack in summer. creatine has never been good to me. . I used a very powerful preworkout supplement, with bunch of bad side effect, some permanent, that is why if they actually work(powerful stimulants) they will do more harm than good. I think for everything you gain physically, there will always be a trade off.
I guess if i take 1MR on my bench test day it’ll be a good choice?!! light weight baby lol
lift206 you have lots of great points, that is exactly why i wrote my program the way my body works, i know how i recover and how i respond, what hurts me what does not, what works what does not. my rep range, sets so on, that is the difference between a veteran and lets say a 19 year old that trolls forums. Yes i did ask for advice, but honestly, excluding eat more, no one really gave anything on the actually programs and exercise choice. lol
not sure why people think cookie cutter programs work for everyone? I believe almost 90% of programs out there work, only problem is, that it is not written for 90% of people, some people will respond and some will not.
my program is part of Russian style strength training and it is not a made up thing. and don’t forget the soviets really took their strength sport seriously and only a hand full of super elite athletes were doing programs written by sheiko, not average joe gym goer. when you are doing a cycle of two major lifts, everything takes a back burner, technically i should of just done one major lift, and on my off days i should of done moderate lifts.
I mainly work on my weakness, so next cycles it’ll be snatch and deadlift, if i don’t do another super cycle for bench press only.
I’m 19 and my numbers shit all over yours.
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
I’m 19 and my numbers shit all over yours.[/quote]
how much do you weigh and how tall are you? lets me guess 6 something and 300 pound of lard?
and FYI the entire female Chinese national weightlifting team shits all over your numbers, what is your point? world is a big place little boy.
Since you are 19 and barely an adult, and at max you have 2 years under your belt, which means you know jack shit, lets alone advising people. and the way you talk to people, i can see your lack of maturity. again i guess that is why i laugh at you for being 19.
You’ve been “lifting” for 14 years and need program advice on the internet, and have terrible numbers. I don’t really need a point.
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
You’ve been “lifting” for 14 years and need program advice on the internet, and have terrible numbers. I don’t really need a point.[/quote]
I have not been powerlifting for 14 years, i have been working out for 14 years, it is trial and error for us older guys, we didn’t get handed amazing free information like you do from this site, we had to find out the hard way, with lots of plateaus, over training, injuries and so on.
my numbers are “good” and in a year or two will be great, since i started going more strength stuff, lets see you do two pullups with 110 pounds attached to a weight belt.
if you want to get stronger, stay the same weight, and know what training “too much” might actually look like, check out sheiko.
The “russian squat program” that you are using as a proud, drug free lifter, is ancient and was in vogue during a time when… well, not everyone was drug-free on their road to the olympics. I just feel like it doesn’t stimulate enough growth without drugs or copious amounts of food. my fiancee tried to use the program for her bench, trained diligently, but on the last few workouts where you approach your max she couldn’t hit the heavy doubles. we retested her bench and it was the exact same as 7 weeks before, when she started. she wasn’t trying to gain weight, she wasn’t eating a lot, and if you don’t want to gain weight, then this really might not be the best style of training for you. just two more cents.
[quote]Acyren wrote:
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
You’ve been “lifting” for 14 years and need program advice on the internet, and have terrible numbers. I don’t really need a point.[/quote]
I have not been powerlifting for 14 years, i have been working out for 14 years, it is trial and error for us older guys, we didn’t get handed amazing free information like you do from this site, we had to find out the hard way, with lots of plateaus, over training, injuries and so on.
my numbers are “good” and in a year or two will be great, since i started going more strength stuff, lets see you do two pullups with 110 pounds attached to a weight belt. [/quote]
Your numbers are typical of people coming off a “newb gains programs”. Why the hell would you do some russian jibberish when you don’t even have the main lifts down well?
You’re not as strong as you should be because
A. You use your age, weight and being natural as excuses. You’re far from an old guy.
500lb. Deadlift by a 64 Year Old Man - YouTube . Thats an older guy. I guarantee he doesn’t complain about it. Stop acting like you were from the stone age, computers were available for a good portion of your life. And you know…books.
B. You focus on form too much. Obviously form is important, but if you’re working hard enough it will break down occasionally.
C. Could be one of two things. Not training hard enough or not training smart enough. Then again back then all your lifting resources were carved on stone tablets which can be pretty hard to read.
I would never give away advice I’d personally make up because I’m not at that level, but neither are you. What I’m telling you now is what any elite powerlifter, strongman or bodybuilder would probably agree with. You still have plenty of time to make gains, but I’d get on a better path if I was you.
Only supps I take are a multivitamin, fish oil and I used to take ZMA. Occasionally I’ll have a protein shake of some sort.
I’m bookmarking this thread for if I ever get depressed; it will cheer me up.
[quote]gorangers0525 wrote:
[quote]Acyren wrote:
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
You’ve been “lifting” for 14 years and need program advice on the internet, and have terrible numbers. I don’t really need a point.[/quote]
I have not been powerlifting for 14 years, i have been working out for 14 years, it is trial and error for us older guys, we didn’t get handed amazing free information like you do from this site, we had to find out the hard way, with lots of plateaus, over training, injuries and so on.
my numbers are “good” and in a year or two will be great, since i started going more strength stuff, lets see you do two pullups with 110 pounds attached to a weight belt. [/quote]
Your numbers are typical of people coming off a “newb gains programs”. Why the hell would you do some russian jibberish when you don’t even have the main lifts down well?
You’re not as strong as you should be because
A. You use your age, weight and being natural as excuses. You’re far from an old guy.
500lb. Deadlift by a 64 Year Old Man - YouTube . Thats an older guy. I guarantee he doesn’t complain about it. Stop acting like you were from the stone age, computers were available for a good portion of your life. And you know…books.
B. You focus on form too much. Obviously form is important, but if you’re working hard enough it will break down occasionally.
C. Could be one of two things. Not training hard enough or not training smart enough. Then again back then all your lifting resources were carved on stone tablets which can be pretty hard to read.
I would never give away advice I’d personally make up because I’m not at that level, but neither are you. What I’m telling you now is what any elite powerlifter, strongman or bodybuilder would probably agree with. You still have plenty of time to make gains, but I’d get on a better path if I was you.
Only supps I take are a multivitamin, fish oil and I used to take ZMA. Occasionally I’ll have a protein shake of some sort.[/quote]
again an article on this site, there is a chart of where strength stands. considering i only did squats and Barbell bench press only 2 years of the 14, i would say i am doing well. also used to do RDL till i was mid 20s till i almost fully ripped my hamstring, and just started conventional deadlift few years ago, with straps, so i had to start from zero again without straps and strengthen my grip and tuneup my form.
you keep saying form is not important, only when there is dollars on the line, injury is not worth it specially when it comes to the major lifts that are actually dangerous if you break form too much. round back = spinal disc herniation, knees travel to forward you rip knee tendons. bounce the bar on your chest you can crack a rib or tear a rotator cuff and the list goes on.
I did not have internet till i was 22 and never knew of great sites like this back then. there were few books that i still have and they did not have that good of information on anything, just basic information. to this day i am still learning new things and believe me i read everything that comes out there to keep my knowledge up to date and still improving. never forget, strength is a skill. and i am learning how to harvest it. i am sure at one point i will put 100lb on all my lifts before backing off as an old man. i went from 65lb cleans to 200lb in 8 month.
and which path would you recommend? i figured the russian one would be very good. considering most of the programs are parts of shieko. the west side style needs more specialized gym to pull it off, which i don’t go to one nor do i have most of the tools.
There are tons of options. If you like sheiko/high volume I’d try to contact someone who runs it and also work on recovery. I’m pretty sure there used to be a sheiko thread so give that a search. Foam roller, extra workouts, icing, contrast showers, eating enough and stretching. You could probably still make some progress with more basic programs like the texas method,madcow,etc.
Try to pick a program you can use for the rest of your training career and only adjust slightly to your needs. 5/3/1 has worked for me so far so if ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Also don’t think you can’t get strong naturally. Just look at Mike Tuchscherer who isn’t much younger than you. One of the strongest raw powerlifters in the world and he got that way by training intelligently and recovery techniques.
Go to train and STFU, This is sad, you are too old and blablabla…
NO ONE CARES YOUR EXCUSES
[quote]gorangers0525 wrote:
There are tons of options. If you like sheiko/high volume I’d try to contact someone who runs it and also work on recovery. I’m pretty sure there used to be a sheiko thread so give that a search. Foam roller, extra workouts, icing, contrast showers, eating enough and stretching. You could probably still make some progress with more basic programs like the texas method,madcow,etc.
Try to pick a program you can use for the rest of your training career and only adjust slightly to your needs. 5/3/1 has worked for me so far so if ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Also don’t think you can’t get strong naturally. Just look at Mike Tuchscherer who isn’t much younger than you. One of the strongest raw powerlifters in the world and he got that way by training intelligently and recovery techniques.[/quote]
I think main reason i was not recovering was the negative of the cleans cause i could not drops the bar, tomorrow is where the 6x6 80% cleans are, i just pray not a fly is in the gym or my back will be fubar. I am doing this till about feb, then i am cutting, this is the exact reason why i never made huge progress in numbers. week 3 now, 3 more weeks, then 1 week off, then one week of lighter exercises, at that point i will decide between the same program deadlift and snatch or the new bench press program i saw few weeks back, it also seems to be another Russian one, was on this site actually oct 11th i believe. that one is also good. as long as i can hit 250 bench and 250 cleans by feb i made great progress imo. smolov stuff is also good.
5/3/1 is good, i just don’t understand why it has fail final sets and no advice on keep one in the tank like all other hardcore programs, it actually encourages it. for some reason i always end up over training with it. my chest does not recover well at all, never has, as soon as i get cocky and add one more exercise i know over training comes within two weeks. still have not really figured it out. we’ll know after i finish this program that is testing me recovery ability. true test week is week 5 when i have to hit my max 2 sets of 2 reps, then i will know if this program was good. gained about 10lbs past few weeks, which means calories are good.
I like the russian style mainly because the strongest people are generally manual labourers, which makes sense, they do the same thing almost every day. not the biggest fan of do heavier and hope to recover by next week.
[quote]Acyren wrote:
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
I’m 19 and my numbers shit all over yours.[/quote]
how much do you weigh and how tall are you? lets me guess 6 something and 300 pound of lard?
and FYI the entire female Chinese national weightlifting team shits all over your numbers, what is your point? world is a big place little boy.
Since you are 19 and barely an adult, and at max you have 2 years under your belt, which means you know jack shit, lets alone advising people. and the way you talk to people, i can see your lack of maturity. again i guess that is why i laugh at you for being 19.[/quote]
Wow, you’re taking a stab at someone for being immature, and you resond like that! Grow up FFS! You need to just lift more. Shut up and get stronger.
Well done on lifting for 14 years, getting no where, and complaining we have it too easy. The info we have available, has been available to me for the same amount of time for me as it has for you. Heck, probably longer since I haven’t trained for that long.