Alternative to Intelligent Design

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
201

[quote]Xvim wrote:
sharetrader wrote:
Not quite sure what you’re getting at here. I’m not aware of any attempts to codify specifically Christian beliefs into law.

Interesting, I take it you’re not a citizen of the US or don’t follow our news here in the States much?

[/quote]

I see the courts declaring the Pledge unconstitutional because it has the word god in it.

I see the courts making towns take down nativity scenes.

I see the 10 commandments banned from many public places.

While the president often talks about god, I don’t see the government promoting religion with the exception of buying Korans for the terrorists at Gitmo and putting faith based charities on the list of charities that the governmment will work with.

Do you have any examples?

202

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Ok since you only wanted to reply to one little part of my post, here is your first post. You start off by degrading the FSM followers, you do this by equating us to middle school mentality, which by the way you put it is inferior to your own. The you accuse FSM and the people who get a kick out of it of degrading all the religions of the world.

You are degrading religion when many of the posts following the simple concept of FSM (which you seem to think is completely benign) start degrading religions. This isn’t the first post related to it and it has also popped in other threads that were about religion and not about someone forcing kids to be taught creationism in school. I do consider it rather juvenile BECAUSE no one truly believes this. Don’t lie and pretend like there are actually a group of “Pastafarians” meeting on Tuesday nights to worship spaghetti. Please, quite the bullshit. I even thought it was funny…the first 500 times I heard it.

THAT, my dear pasta loving friend, is the soul reason I responded. It wasn’t simply because someone made a funny. It wasn’t because I think you don’t have a right to voice an opinion. It is about how apparent it is to anyone willing to see it that for people who claim to not believe in God…it sure as HELL seems to be on your minds a lot. Odd, isn’t it?

Come on, let’s see how many more pages we can squeeze out of this.

The result of me speaking my mind? It seems that more than a few actually understand where many Christians are coming from instead of the stereotypes believed before. That’s a bad thing, isn’t it?[/quote]

Well, I can agree somewhat, but I still think you are missing the point. Nobody believes this to be an actual religion, it is , as I tried to explain erlier, a parody. It is exactly the same as a political cartoon. It is using humor and wit to combat an idea (teaching ID in schools) instead of other means such as protes and or bombing churches. Certainly this is one of the more civilized ways to combat a certain agenda or line of thinking.

Would you rather people take the route of the ACLU and start throwing lawsuits around left and right? Would you rather instead of FSM, people bombed chuches of those outspoken proponents of ID? Of course not. Yea so some people get a little carried away and poke fun of organized religion, but really they are poking fun of the extremists who pop up and attack FSM as if it were somehow threatening the existance of thier religion.

I’m not sure what other method of dissent you would rather people use. Of course there is serious debate going on, but that is often left for those in the trenches of the issue. Us commoners, who do have interest, but not to the point of starting an organized crusade against ID, are simply using FSM as a tool to have fun, and make at point at the same time.

P.S. I very much believe in god.

V

203

[quote]Professor X wrote:

You are degrading religion when many of the posts following the simple concept of FSM (which you seem to think is completely benign) start degrading religions. This isn’t the first post related to it and it has also popped in other threads that were about religion and not about someone forcing kids to be taught creationism in school. I do consider it rather juvenile BECAUSE no one truly believes this. Don’t lie and pretend like there are actually a group of “Pastafarians” meeting on Tuesday nights to worship spaghetti. Please, quite the bullshit. I even thought it was funny…the first 500 times I heard it.
[/quote]

To your point here, I just re-read the beginning of the thread, and no other religion was even mentioned or degraded until gregus came in and started spouting off. I also believe I didn’t read anything degrading towards any religion by the time you posted your first gripe. If you found something degrading in those first posts before you or gregus posted please show me as I didn’t find any. To me it simply looked like a few people joking about noodles and pirate costumes.

V

204

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
pookie wrote:
By the way, in the same sermon, Jesus says to give all your possessions to any that ask. Well, I’m asking. I’ll be setting up a PayPal account and I’m asking all faithful Christians to give me all their money. You can also sell your luxuries and forward the profits to me.

I already have an account set up for this, pookie. I haven’t met a real christian yet. Maybe if I had bad hair and a TV show where I slap people upside the head and proclaim “the devil has washed out of you!”, then things would be different.

Actually, I’m going to try that. I’ll get back to you.[/quote]

The Bible never talks about free hand me outs. I don’t know where you got that idea from. Even in the laws of Deuteronomy and books like Proverbs emphasize not to do such things.

God left it as a provision for the poor that at the corners of each field, during harvest-time, to be left alone for the poor to harvest themselves. But realize they had to come and get it for themselves. This can be seen in the books already mentioned as well as the book of Ruth. God is not a cosmic vending machine for the world to pull His lever on.

205

[quote]Tank53 wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
pookie wrote:
By the way, in the same sermon, Jesus says to give all your possessions to any that ask. Well, I’m asking. I’ll be setting up a PayPal account and I’m asking all faithful Christians to give me all their money. You can also sell your luxuries and forward the profits to me.

I already have an account set up for this, pookie. I haven’t met a real christian yet. Maybe if I had bad hair and a TV show where I slap people upside the head and proclaim “the devil has washed out of you!”, then things would be different.

Actually, I’m going to try that. I’ll get back to you.

The Bible never talks about free hand me outs. I don’t know where you got that idea from. Even in the laws of Deuteronomy and books like Proverbs emphasize not to do such things.

God left it as a provision for the poor that at the corners of each field, during harvest-time, to be left alone for the poor to harvest themselves. But realize they had to come and get it for themselves. This can be seen in the books already mentioned as well as the book of Ruth. God is not a cosmic vending machine for the world to pull His lever on.
[/quote]

Ooops. Pushed Enter too soon. And the times it does talk about giving freely, its to those that need it. The poor. Oppressed. Elderly. Obviously from the teachings in James, Christians are called to give for those that cannot take care of themselves. Christians aren’t to supply to those that are unwilling to at least try and earn a living. Or just want a pay out.

206

[quote]Vegita wrote:
Professor X wrote:

You are degrading religion when many of the posts following the simple concept of FSM (which you seem to think is completely benign) start degrading religions. This isn’t the first post related to it and it has also popped in other threads that were about religion and not about someone forcing kids to be taught creationism in school. I do consider it rather juvenile BECAUSE no one truly believes this. Don’t lie and pretend like there are actually a group of “Pastafarians” meeting on Tuesday nights to worship spaghetti. Please, quite the bullshit. I even thought it was funny…the first 500 times I heard it.

To your point here, I just re-read the beginning of the thread, and no other religion was even mentioned or degraded until gregus came in and started spouting off. I also believe I didn’t read anything degrading towards any religion by the time you posted your first gripe. If you found something degrading in those first posts before you or gregus posted please show me as I didn’t find any. To me it simply looked like a few people joking about noodles and pirate costumes.

V[/quote]

In the post you quoted, the following was written:

My response wasn’t just about THIS thread. I am also not going to go looking back through all other threads this has popped up in. Like I also wrote in THIS thread, I didn’t take this personally…I just felt like having fun with it as well while actually making some progress…unlike what I see FSM doing other than giving atheists something to group-laugh about.

207

Ahahaha. Okay, I’m late to the party, but the Bush family is rich, and they try to pass themselves off as Christian.

This doesn’t work very will… since the good book states the rich will almost never get to heaven.

Draw your own conclusions.

208

[quote]vroom wrote:
Ahahaha. Okay, I’m late to the party, but the Bush family is rich, and they try to pass themselves off as Christian.

This doesn’t work very will… since the good book states the rich will almost never get to heaven.

Draw your own conclusions.[/quote]

LOL If anyone thinks that Bush is not going straight to hell, they need to begin taking their meds again.

209

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Professor X wrote:

You are degrading religion when many of the posts following the simple concept of FSM (which you seem to think is completely benign) start degrading religions. This isn’t the first post related to it and it has also popped in other threads that were about religion and not about someone forcing kids to be taught creationism in school. I do consider it rather juvenile BECAUSE no one truly believes this. Don’t lie and pretend like there are actually a group of “Pastafarians” meeting on Tuesday nights to worship spaghetti. Please, quite the bullshit. I even thought it was funny…the first 500 times I heard it.

To your point here, I just re-read the beginning of the thread, and no other religion was even mentioned or degraded until gregus came in and started spouting off. I also believe I didn’t read anything degrading towards any religion by the time you posted your first gripe. If you found something degrading in those first posts before you or gregus posted please show me as I didn’t find any. To me it simply looked like a few people joking about noodles and pirate costumes.

V

In the post you quoted, the following was written:
This isn’t the first post related to it and it has also popped in other threads that were about religion and not about someone forcing kids to be taught creationism in school.

My response wasn’t just about THIS thread. I am also not going to go looking back through all other threads this has popped up in. Like I also wrote in THIS thread, I didn’t take this personally…I just felt like having fun with it as well while actually making some progress…unlike what I see FSM doing other than giving atheists something to group-laugh about.
[/quote]

Backpedaling? So now you were only having fun with us in your first post? Now we find out that you only started to degrade us, because of other posts about FSM? Who cares if we goup laugh, and why do you assume all FSM followers are athiest? I stated before and i’ll state again, I beleive 100% in god, just not your god. Who is discriminating now?

If anyone is being immature it is you, you spout off like a kid who got his toy taken away, then you rationalize it by saying we degraded your religion, which was false, then you say it was in “other” threads, then you backpedal further and say you were just joking.

You’re seriously never wrong are you? I have friends like you and they get so damn annoying sometimes. Sure i’m still friends with them, but once in a while i just want to hit them in the head with a sack of potatoes. Stop rationalizing and trying to wriggle out of this, you were wrong to jump in here and start bashing people, unless of course you wanted the 12 page argument that you got in return. If that was your primary goal then just say so and we can all breathe easy.

V

210

[quote]Vegita wrote:
Backpedaling? So now you were only having fun with us in your first post? Now we find out that you only started to degrade us, because of other posts about FSM? [/quote]

Now you find out? Dude, go take a laxative. This was written by me on the third page that you obviously didn’t read and now have gotten your feelings hurt:

[quote]vroom wrote:
Strange.

How can anyone who actually believes in God get insulted by the material in this thread?.

I wasn’t insulted at all. I just thought I would play the same game.
[/quote]

Yes…and I enjoyed it.

211

[quote]Professor X wrote:
vroom wrote:
Ahahaha. Okay, I’m late to the party, but the Bush family is rich, and they try to pass themselves off as Christian.

This doesn’t work very will… since the good book states the rich will almost never get to heaven.

Draw your own conclusions.

LOL If anyone thinks that Bush is not going straight to hell, they need to begin taking their meds again.[/quote]

Really? I thought Jesus was a tax-cutting supply side neo-con war hawk…

212

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Backpedaling? So now you were only having fun with us in your first post? Now we find out that you only started to degrade us, because of other posts about FSM?

Now you find out? Dude, go take a laxative. This was written by me on the third page that you obviously didn’t read and now have gotten your feelings hurt:
vroom wrote:
Strange.

How can anyone who actually believes in God get insulted by the material in this thread?.

I wasn’t insulted at all. I just thought I would play the same game.

Yes…and I enjoyed it.[/quote]

Hmmm, so if someone smacking thier gum bothered you, would you wait till you heard say the 20th person smacking gum and tell them they are a loser and stop smacking your dam gum. Only to tell them an hour later that you were just playing with them and that you had heard 19 other people smacking gum earlier and that is what actually caused you to yell at them. And that actually they weren’t really smacking thier gum, but you could hear them chewing it, and since chewing gum is closely related to smacking gum, you felt is was necessary to make sure that they knew it wasn’t ok by you to smack your gum. Of course you were just having fun with them, much like thier chewing of the gum was fun for them.

This is esentially what you did on this thread, and I fail to see any reason for it other than someone who has a temper and can’t control what they say. You see other people having fun and need to butt your head in and try and spoil it. Then when people either ignore you or stand up to you, you pretend you were just joking along too, and that we just didn’t get it. Are you a… oh my god you are, your an internet bully!

Bwahahahahahahaha!

Who’s having fun now?

V

213

[quote]Vegita wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Backpedaling? So now you were only having fun with us in your first post? Now we find out that you only started to degrade us, because of other posts about FSM?

Now you find out? Dude, go take a laxative. This was written by me on the third page that you obviously didn’t read and now have gotten your feelings hurt:
vroom wrote:
Strange.

How can anyone who actually believes in God get insulted by the material in this thread?.

I wasn’t insulted at all. I just thought I would play the same game.

Yes…and I enjoyed it.

Hmmm, so if someone smacking thier gum bothered you, would you wait till you heard say the 20th person smacking gum and tell them they are a loser and stop smacking your dam gum. Only to tell them an hour later that you were just playing with them and that you had heard 19 other people smacking gum earlier and that is what actually caused you to yell at them. And that actually they weren’t really smacking thier gum, but you could hear them chewing it, and since chewing gum is closely related to smacking gum, you felt is was necessary to make sure that they knew it wasn’t ok by you to smack your gum. Of course you were just having fun with them, much like thier chewing of the gum was fun for them.

This is esentially what you did on this thread, and I fail to see any reason for it other than someone who has a temper and can’t control what they say. You see other people having fun and need to butt your head in and try and spoil it. Then when people either ignore you or stand up to you, you pretend you were just joking along too, and that we just didn’t get it. Are you a… oh my god you are, your an internet bully!

Bwahahahahahahaha!

Who’s having fun now?

V[/quote]

I am not quite sure what medications you are taking, but you should be aware of some cross reactivity if too many different antidepressants are taken at the same time…along with alcohol. Now, far be it from me to accuse a patient of drinking…but damn.

214

[quote]pookie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
God is not against material possessions as evidenced by several other scriptures. Jesus also wasn’t stupid and doesn’t expect us to be either. If you think anywhere in the Bible that it means give away everything for no reason.

No? Matthew 19, KJV:

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

I’d like you to explain that one to me. No matter how I read it (and this time I checked a few other versions) I can’t fathom how you get a Jesus who’s ok with an abundance of material possessions; but then again, I don’t go around calling myself “Professor” either, so what do I know.[/quote]

This man did not keep all the commandments, only the ones mentioned. It also mentions “if thou wilt be perfect”…Some versions of the gospels mention that there were many poor and sick people in the vicinity, and he was told to sell what he had and give to these people, and he was unwilling.
The camel would have to lower itself and basically crawl through the “eye of the needle”. This rich man was not humble, nor had a giving spirit.

That’s how I perceive it.

Yes. Many Christians are not Christians in practice, and Jesus talks of this…many; however, are.

Pookie, I’m tapped out. Hurricane victims are in my midst, and I have unpaid bills and two babies to feed…as well as a teenager. I do have some things I can sell, but don’t have the courage to sell other things…though I probably should. I think most are scared of what perfection might be and its benefits. Do you complete every scheduled workout? Is all your workouts timed perfectly for optimum results in harmony for all body parts? It takes complete single mindedness to achieve. Which is the evil…to sacrifice the family, or perfection?

I’m not sure what heaven is, or hell. I know there is God. I know there is Death. I can only control my attitude and effort, so that is what I concentrate on.

If you need a PS2, I’ve got some IROC wheels I don’t use I can sale to someone who might need them.

215

[quote]Floortom wrote:
Professor X wrote:
vroom wrote:
Ahahaha. Okay, I’m late to the party, but the Bush family is rich, and they try to pass themselves off as Christian.

This doesn’t work very will… since the good book states the rich will almost never get to heaven.

Draw your own conclusions.

LOL If anyone thinks that Bush is not going straight to hell, they need to begin taking their meds again.

Really? I thought Jesus was a tax-cutting supply side neo-con war hawk…
[/quote]

No, that was his brother, Bob.

Sorry, Lord…I know that was really bad.

216

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Backpedaling? So now you were only having fun with us in your first post? Now we find out that you only started to degrade us, because of other posts about FSM?

Now you find out? Dude, go take a laxative. This was written by me on the third page that you obviously didn’t read and now have gotten your feelings hurt:
vroom wrote:
Strange.

How can anyone who actually believes in God get insulted by the material in this thread?.

I wasn’t insulted at all. I just thought I would play the same game.

Yes…and I enjoyed it.

Hmmm, so if someone smacking thier gum bothered you, would you wait till you heard say the 20th person smacking gum and tell them they are a loser and stop smacking your dam gum. Only to tell them an hour later that you were just playing with them and that you had heard 19 other people smacking gum earlier and that is what actually caused you to yell at them. And that actually they weren’t really smacking thier gum, but you could hear them chewing it, and since chewing gum is closely related to smacking gum, you felt is was necessary to make sure that they knew it wasn’t ok by you to smack your gum. Of course you were just having fun with them, much like thier chewing of the gum was fun for them.

This is esentially what you did on this thread, and I fail to see any reason for it other than someone who has a temper and can’t control what they say. You see other people having fun and need to butt your head in and try and spoil it. Then when people either ignore you or stand up to you, you pretend you were just joking along too, and that we just didn’t get it. Are you a… oh my god you are, your an internet bully!

Bwahahahahahahaha!

Who’s having fun now?

V

I am not quite sure what medications you are taking, but you should be aware of some cross reactivity if too many different antidepressants are taken at the same time…along with alcohol. Now, far be it from me to accuse a patient of drinking…but damn.[/quote]

Haha, nope, just high on life my friend.

V

217

[quote]Vegita wrote:

Haha, nope, just high on life my friend.

V[/quote]

Ah, they call it “life” now. I think you are alone in your opinion…but even if you weren’t, who really cares?

218

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Vegita wrote:

Haha, nope, just high on life my friend.

V

Ah, they call it “life” now. I think you are alone in your opinion…but even if you weren’t, who really cares?[/quote]

So i’m back to being an athiest? Cool, if your brain needs to label me as such in order to believe that I can support FSM thats fine. My brain happens to need to think of you as a closet FSM worshoper, actually you are probably of the ninja sect and are doing recon and espionage missions. Well were on to you so be prepared to feel the wrath of the noodles. Imposter!

V

219

[quote]jackzepplin wrote:
Pookie? What kind of name is that?[/quote]

An unfortunate one.

[quote]Poopie, as for ?respect? and your ?hypocritical? comments, let me ask you some questions; be it rhetorical or actual. Do you have children? If so, you probably follow a set of principles as a Father to your children, right? (At least I hope you do.) You respect your children, right? Don?t you feel that they deserve respect? Wouldn?t you just stomp someone into a mud hole if they disrespected your children in a demeaning way? You are a T-Man, right?

Have you ever raised your voice to your child? Have you ever put yourself before them? Have you ever done ANYTHING that didn?t fall into accordance with your own principles of parenting? If you can honestly answer, no, then I don?t believe you. When you answer ?Yes?, then I will tell you to stop being so damn hypocritical. AND, my Christian upbringing will allow me to forgive you, for you know not what you do.[/quote]

Poopie? Good one.

For your example, I’ll claim that I’m not perfect; whenever I do any of those things, they are not intentional, but mostly from losing my temper, etc.

But what if I wrote a book called “Pookie’s Parenting Guide.” and I went arond claiming that only MY Parenting Guide is the Real Parenting Guide. All other Parenting Guides on the market are fakes and phonies. And I would get really pissed if anyone made fun of my Parenting Guide. And then, in defending my Parenting Guide (on which I would hopefully try to base my behavior on) I’d break about half the rules of the Guide.

And when people, who don’t follow my Guide (AKA “the idiots”) pointed out how I was not following some of my rules either, I’d “interpret” the rules so that I can fit them to whatever behavior I happened to be having at the time. I could, for example, say that being mean to a kid is doing worse than whatever level of meanness I happen to exhibit; and so I’m not breaking my “Don’t be mean to your kids” rule.

And that, my helium inflated friend, would not be accidental but deliberate and that’s hypocritical.

220

[quote]pookie wrote:
jackzepplin wrote:
Pookie? What kind of name is that?

An unfortunate one.

Poopie, as for ?respect? and your ?hypocritical? comments, let me ask you some questions; be it rhetorical or actual. Do you have children? If so, you probably follow a set of principles as a Father to your children, right? (At least I hope you do.) You respect your children, right? Don?t you feel that they deserve respect? Wouldn?t you just stomp someone into a mud hole if they disrespected your children in a demeaning way? You are a T-Man, right?

Have you ever raised your voice to your child? Have you ever put yourself before them? Have you ever done ANYTHING that didn?t fall into accordance with your own principles of parenting? If you can honestly answer, no, then I don?t believe you. When you answer ?Yes?, then I will tell you to stop being so damn hypocritical. AND, my Christian upbringing will allow me to forgive you, for you know not what you do.

Poopie? Good one.

For your example, I’ll claim that I’m not perfect; whenever I do any of those things, they are not intentional, but mostly from losing my temper, etc.

But what if I wrote a book called “Pookie’s Parenting Guide.” and I went arond claiming that only MY Parenting Guide is the Real Parenting Guide. All other Parenting Guides on the market are fakes and phonies. And I would get really pissed if anyone made fun of my Parenting Guide. And then, in defending my Parenting Guide (on which I would hopefully try to base my behavior on) I’d break about half the rules of the Guide.

And when people, who don’t follow my Guide (AKA “the idiots”) pointed out how I was not following some of my rules either, I’d “interpret” the rules so that I can fit them to whatever behavior I happened to be having at the time. I could, for example, say that being mean to a kid is doing worse than whatever level of meanness I happen to exhibit; and so I’m not breaking my “Don’t be mean to your kids” rule.

And that, my helium inflated friend, would not be accidental but deliberate and that’s hypocritical.[/quote]

Could he not also be inflated with hydrogen? I’m just saying.

V