Alternative to Intelligent Design

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
181

Budhists aren’t attempting to codify their beliefs into law, nor are they using Budhism as a litmus test for who they appoint to insignificant government positions… like Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

And while it may be presumptuous to say definitively that there is no higher power than man, it is not at all unreasonable to suggest that Christianity, a relatively recent, human invention, is the key to understanding the universe. Intellgence is all relative, there are some pretty damn smart Scientologists out there, some of them even smarter than myself (lol) but that is no basis for joining that cult and belieing all that shit about the Galactic Council and the Evil Overlord Xenu, a religion that has suprisingly more ‘logic and reason’ to it than the ghostly carpenter’s son nailed to a tree.

182

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
sharetrader wrote:
No-one goes around poking fun at reincarnation or karma. Nor do people think Jewish beliefs should be ridiculed.

Good point… of course, there’s not an outcry of “religious persecution by heathen atheist ultra-liberals” from the Hindu community when we don’t teach the “Vedic Conception of Sound in Four Features” as a part of physics class.

So we have to ask ourselves if the christians didn’t bring this upon themselves in a way. No other religious group is crying foul over our science curriculum, probably because they have enough sense to realize that their creation myths are actual MYTHS.

But hey, maybe that’s just me. Call me silly for wondering why people take the holy bible as a literal word-for-word truthful account of history. No metaphor? No exaggerations? Not even a little bit? Okay… I guess it’s your own life, you live it however you want.[/quote]

I agree with your reaction to Christians who are agitating for inclusion of ID in science curriculums. I’m sure that they are among the more vocal Christians in the US. However, I don’t believe they are representative of all Christians any more than Al Qaeda is representative of all Muslims. To condemn a whole group of people or to ridicule all their beliefs because of the behaviour/beliefs of an unrepresentative minority is simply unfair.

183

[quote]Xvim wrote:
Budhists aren’t attempting to codify their beliefs into law, nor are they using Budhism as a litmus test for who they appoint to insignificant government positions… like Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

And while it may be presumptuous to say definitively that there is no higher power than man, it is not at all unreasonable to suggest that Christianity, a relatively recent, human invention, is the key to understanding the universe. Intellgence is all relative, there are some pretty damn smart Scientologists out there, some of them even smarter than myself (lol) but that is no basis for joining that cult and belieing all that shit about the Galactic Council and the Evil Overlord Xenu, a religion that has suprisingly more ‘logic and reason’ to it than the ghostly carpenter’s son nailed to a tree.[/quote]

Not quite sure what you’re getting at here. I’m not aware of any attempts to codify specifically Christian beliefs into law. As for the Chief Justice issue, Buddhists might well prefer a Buddhist as Chief Justice.

184

[quote]Massif wrote:
pookie wrote:

Something dripping with male juice.

Geez, Pookie. Talk about gay quote of the century.[/quote]

When I wrote it, I was thinking testosterone; as in sweating it from every pore. But now that I reread it, I see your point. Damn. I think it’s the alias who’s changing me.

185

[quote]WMD wrote:
The problem is that Christians think they know how everybody else should live, when they can’t even manage their own lives with integrity.[/quote]

Who are you speaking of specifically? I think I manage my own life just fine. Your life is really not that much of a concern to me unless I influence it directly.

[quote]
Consider Matthew 7:1-5, whatever version you wish. If you can’t walk the walk, don’t talk the talk. Why would you demand respect for something you don’t attempt to put into practice? [/quote]

Demand respect? I was told that I show no respect, to which I replied that none had been shown to me. I’m not quite sure what you are even talking about. You would do better to quote me directly.

[quote]
I am quite aware no one is “perfect”. If you and other Christians know this too, why don’t you leave the rest of us alone and live and let live? [/quote]

Who is forcing ideas on you? This thread was posted in the Politics and World Issues section of a discussion forum…yet you didn’t expect discussion except from people who agreed with you? Wow.

[quote]
Why should anyone listen to someone who is as imperfect as they are tell them how to live or what’s sinful and what is not? Would you go for exercise advice to someone who is a fat disgusting slob or would you go to someone who is fit and athletic? Same principle.[/quote]

No it isn’t. I’m not perfect, but I am also not evil. I think that overall I make pretty good choices in life in spite of mistakes. You expected to only hear this from perfect people? Your argument makes no sense. No one is perfect, so who did you expect to hear anything relating to religion from? Using your very own analogy, I have yet to meet the PERFECT trainer. Does this mean that you won’t learn a lot from a trainer who isn’t perfect but tries to be very good at what he does? According to your own wierd sense of logic, I guess that is the case.

[quote]
I have no respect for hypocrites of any sort. [/quote]

Hmmm, who did you vote for?

[quote]
Oh and it enters our minds because good Christian folk can’t shut up about it. I wish they’d read and practice Matthew chapter 6 entire. They keep trying to make it part of law and education and politics and french fries and every other fucking thing.

Cthulu and FSM 4-ever![/quote]

What? We can’t shut up about it? Who started this thread? What threads have been started by anyone claiming to be a Christian that were made to simply hurl insults at Atheists? I can’t think of one time on this forum that I ever just started going on about religion in a thread that wasn’t about religion. This whole post you just wrote lacks any sense. But hey, thanks for posting.

186

[quote]WMD wrote:
When you turn it into a law and insist everone else believe on pain of imprisonment or death. Or if you decide to blow up and abortion clinic because you so fervently believe in the Green Cheese Moon. Or you beat some gay guy to death because the Holy Book of the Green Cheese Moon says it is abomination to be gay. Stuff like that. [/quote]

Geeze, talk about stereotypes. I have never beaten up a gay guy and never would…unless they attacked me. I am also not against abortions. You sure do know…nothing about me.

If no one has said such a thing, then what are you talking about? Could it be that you have simply been listening to the wrong people? What do you do for a living? If someone in your same career field gives me wrong advice, can I sue you for it? Thanks.

187

[quote]sharetrader wrote:
Not quite sure what you’re getting at here. I’m not aware of any attempts to codify specifically Christian beliefs into law.[/quote]

Interesting, I take it you’re not a citizen of the US or don’t follow our news here in the States much?

188

Avast ye mates! Ye be talkin like a bunch of lubbers. Do ye not know what the day is? Arrrr…a bunch of bilge rats ye be. Now belay that lubber talk and talk like a true believer.

189

[quote]gojira wrote:
Open letter to the Kansas School Board:

I may have to convert.[/quote]

Ya its funny but do you belive in god? I do, I think life is a miricle don’t you?

190

[quote]Xvim wrote:
sharetrader wrote:
Not quite sure what you’re getting at here. I’m not aware of any attempts to codify specifically Christian beliefs into law.

Interesting, I take it you’re not a citizen of the US or don’t follow our news here in the States much?

[/quote]

Dude, no one hates the use of “religious motives” to make more laws more than me. I don’t know how anyone could understand otherwise from the things I have written in this section of the forum. I have made it clear that I don’t think there need to be any laws preventing women from having abortions and I don’t see why everyone is worked up over gay marriages. It isn’t my place to judge anyone else or FORCE them to abide by what I believe may be right for myself. If we take away choices, then you prevent people from making that vital decision for themselves…which is the point.

It is very clear that some of you take the words of “some” and apply them to all…yet none of you seem to see this as any form of bigotry or blatant stereotyping.

I think it has been explained in this thread, however. Perhaps some of you should simply get out more.

191

You might be in the majority Prof, I’m not singling you witih my posts, not by any stretch. However, folks who have enough power to initiate that kind of legislation are doing so. Michigan along with many other states have been passing anti-homosexual laws left and right and Roberts has expressed a desire to overturn Roe v. Wade and is now probably our next Chief Justice. For a ‘vocal minority’ the fundamentalist right wing seems to have an inordinate amount of pull in our current political climate. Or is it just my imagination?

192

[quote]Xvim wrote:
You might be in the majority Prof, I’m not singling you witih my posts, not by any stretch. However, folks who have enough power to initiate that kind of legislation are doing so. Michigan along with many other states have been passing anti-homosexual laws left and right and Roberts has expressed a desire to overturn Roe v. Wade and is now probably our next Chief Justice. For a ‘vocal minority’ the fundamentalist right wing seems to have an inordinate amount of pull in our current political climate. Or is it just my imagination?[/quote]

It isn’t, which is why I don’t applaud our entire system of government becoming so one sided. Even though I don’t think of Kerry as “great” by any means, this is why I didn’t vote for Bush (well, one of the reasons). It isn’t because I am a democrat. I would vote republican if someone with some sense was running for that position. This is what you all wanted though, isn’t it? A lop-sided government making laws based on religion with a major emphasis on big business? To me, I can’t think of anything more hypocritical.

193

[quote]GoodKnight wrote:
gojira wrote:
Open letter to the Kansas School Board:

I may have to convert.

Ya its funny but do you belive in god? I do, I think life is a miricle don’t you?
[/quote]

Can we please knock this “life is a miracle” shit off? Life is a bio-chemical reaction, nothing more.

Miracles (if one believes in them) happen raaaaaaaarely. They are also not explainable by logical/rational means. For (a slightly facetious) example: the '69 Mets.

Life, on the other hand, occurs on almost every inch of the planet. From Antarctica to the boiling mouths of underwater volcanos, life not only exists, but teems.

The miracle would be if life did NOT exist, so plentifully it abounds.

In summary: anything Britney and Kevin can accomplish on their own cannot possibly be a miracle.

194

[quote]Professor X wrote:

It is very clear that some of you take the words of “some” and apply them to all…yet none of you seem to see this as any form of bigotry or blatant stereotyping.

[/quote]

Not to burst your bubble but you do this very well in your own right with regard to the race issue. Sure there are some people out there who are racist (white and black etc.). You tend to think that all white people fall into this category, or at least enough of us to qualify us all in general as racist. Or at least you seem to think that there are enough white racists to hinder the well being of the majority of minorities.

Well Prof, being part of a group, you have to police yourselves if you don’t want a bad steryotype to be attached to your group. When I hear white people making racists remarks, I call them on it and tell them it’s pure BS. I tell them it makes them look like dumb rednecks and that they should be ashamed of themselves for advancing hateful lies and emotions that were exposed as idiocy over 150 years ago.

Now while I may not change all of the racist thoughts in the world into thoughts of equality and brotherhood I do attempt to do all that I can. I will not let ideas that are harmful to our race as humans continue on if I can possibly stop them. The same should be done in every group and subgroup and community. If you think that ID should not be tought in schools, then why get in this long 5 page argument over something that was designed soley to combat the teaching of ID in school as science. You came out with both barrels blazing in defense of the very people that are tarnishing your religions name. It may be human nature to defend those of likeness, but intelligence would have us only defend them when they are in the right and worthy of defense.

FSM is a parody, similar to a political cartoon showing the president in a bad light. It is a tool used to show and perhaps amplify the apparent idiocy in a group with an agenda. If the group did not have an agenda, there would be no reason for FSM to exist. It’s not like ALL christians are sitting in thier churches and sunday schools happy that they themselves are among the few who believe and will be saved. Many feel the need to save everyone else, even if it is against thier will. This is where the inherant problem lies. And while you admittedly don’t do this yourself, don’t expect people outside of your faith not to get worked up and defensive and throw barbs when there ARE those out there who try to force thier beliefs on us. The gentleman who claimed Katrina was created by god to kill gays for instance, obviously has an agenda. Our fight is with him and his type not you, yet you still stand by his side and defend him, whether you know it or not.

Anyways, Just trying to show that you and your religion are not under attack, but the extremists within your ranks certainly are. It will be much messier when good christians defend these people rather than logically, expelling them from thier ranks.

V

195

[quote]Vegita wrote:
If you think that ID should not be tought in schools, then why get in this long 5 page argument over something that was designed soley to combat the teaching of ID in school as science. V[/quote]

I already explained fairly clearly why I was responding. Check one of the hundreds of other pages in this thread where I have been asked that question at least 2 or 3 times.

196

Pookie? What kind of name is that?

Pro X ~ As much as I?ve disagreed with you on other threads, I?m with ya on this one.

Poopie, as for ?respect? and your ?hypocritical? comments, let me ask you some questions; be it rhetorical or actual. Do you have children? If so, you probably follow a set of principles as a Father to your children, right? (At least I hope you do.) You respect your children, right? Don?t you feel that they deserve respect? Wouldn?t you just stomp someone into a mud hole if they disrespected your children in a demeaning way? You are a T-Man, right?

Have you ever raised your voice to your child? Have you ever put yourself before them? Have you ever done ANYTHING that didn?t fall into accordance with your own principles of parenting? If you can honestly answer, no, then I don?t believe you. When you answer ?Yes?, then I will tell you to stop being so damn hypocritical. AND, my Christian upbringing will allow me to forgive you, for you know not what you do.

ProX ~ I have vehemently disagreed with you about some things, but I am always pleased to see as to how two people can still find common ground (you and me). Thank you for standing up for what you believe in.

197

[quote]Professor X wrote:
You all really seem to be having fun with this. I would have expected this much attention for that idea in junior high school. The fact that it seems to have caught on with a large number of adults is pretty scary considering not one of you actually believe this, meaning deep down, each time it is mentioned it is dig at religion. Whatever makes you happy, but what is really the point of this besides degrading what a large percentage of the world believes?[/quote]

Ok since you only wanted to reply to one little part of my post, here is your first post. You start off by degrading the FSM followers, you do this by equating us to middle school mentality, which by the way you put it is inferior to your own. The you accuse FSM and the people who get a kick out of it of degrading all the religions of the world.

This shows you don’t really understand FSM because Like i pointed out erlier, it’s basically a parody of the extremists in the religous right. It’s not a knock at all christians or meant to degrade all religions, yet you misunderstand it and take offense to it.

Am I wrong or am I the one who is misunderstanding what the intent of FSM is? Should I view any political cartoon depicting bush as a dumb ass, as being degrading to conservative viewpoints and thus bad and hateful? Actually, I tend to enjoy those So I hope I can continue to laugh at them though I may not always agree 100% with the artists intended message.

No comments on the rest of my post?

V

198

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
I just want to announce that Bojo is my new favorite T-Nationer.

OOO!!! I’m so scared! :smiley:

I love it when some hippie-worshipper gets a hair up his ass, and feels compelled to post some brainless “fear my god or else” trash on here.

Please o please, bojo, save our souls!! Save us from ourselves!! LOL[/quote]

He is indeed amusing. It’s folks like bojo that give rational and thoughtful Christians like ProfX a bad name and why parodies like FSM get created. It’s not so much that we’re anti-Christian; just anti-moron.

199

[quote]Vegita wrote:
Ok since you only wanted to reply to one little part of my post, here is your first post. You start off by degrading the FSM followers, you do this by equating us to middle school mentality, which by the way you put it is inferior to your own. The you accuse FSM and the people who get a kick out of it of degrading all the religions of the world. [/quote]

You are degrading religion when many of the posts following the simple concept of FSM (which you seem to think is completely benign) start degrading religions. This isn’t the first post related to it and it has also popped in other threads that were about religion and not about someone forcing kids to be taught creationism in school. I do consider it rather juvenile BECAUSE no one truly believes this. Don’t lie and pretend like there are actually a group of “Pastafarians” meeting on Tuesday nights to worship spaghetti. Please, quite the bullshit. I even thought it was funny…the first 500 times I heard it.

THAT, my dear pasta loving friend, is the soul reason I responded. It wasn’t simply because someone made a funny. It wasn’t because I think you don’t have a right to voice an opinion. It is about how apparent it is to anyone willing to see it that for people who claim to not believe in God…it sure as HELL seems to be on your minds a lot. Odd, isn’t it?

Come on, let’s see how many more pages we can squeeze out of this.

The result of me speaking my mind? It seems that more than a few actually understand where many Christians are coming from instead of the stereotypes believed before. That’s a bad thing, isn’t it?

200

[quote]pookie wrote:
larryb wrote:
pookie wrote:
sharetrader wrote:
To pookie and any who think like him/her:

Him/her? HIM/HER???

That does it, I’m getting a new alias.

How about pook-he?

Hmmm. Sounds like a Korean menu item.

How about Pookie X? Sounds more manly, no?

…
[/quote]

What happened to the first nine?