[quote]Vegita wrote:
So i’m back to being an athiest? Cool, if your brain needs to label me as such in order to believe that I can support FSM thats fine.
V[/quote]
Uh, what are you talking about? I didn’t call you an atheist. Put the drugs down…and back away slowly.
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Could he not also be inflated with hydrogen? I’m just saying.
V[/quote]
You know, times are changing. Ladies can do stuff now and you’re going to learn how to deal with it.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Vegita wrote:
So i’m back to being an athiest? Cool, if your brain needs to label me as such in order to believe that I can support FSM thats fine.
V
Uh, what are you talking about? I didn’t call you an atheist. Put the drugs down…and back away slowly.[/quote]
I misunderstood your statement about calling it “life” then. What were you getting at if you don’t mind me asking?
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Vegita wrote:
So i’m back to being an athiest? Cool, if your brain needs to label me as such in order to believe that I can support FSM thats fine.
V
Uh, what are you talking about? I didn’t call you an atheist. Put the drugs down…and back away slowly.
I misunderstood your statement about calling it “life” then. What were you getting at if you don’t mind me asking?
V[/quote]
The crack you are apparently smoking.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Vegita wrote:
So i’m back to being an athiest? Cool, if your brain needs to label me as such in order to believe that I can support FSM thats fine.
V
Uh, what are you talking about? I didn’t call you an atheist. Put the drugs down…and back away slowly.
I misunderstood your statement about calling it “life” then. What were you getting at if you don’t mind me asking?
V
The crack you are apparently smoking.[/quote]
Ahhhhhhh! now I get it, sorry, it’s hard for me to shift in and out of funny mode sometimes.
Actually you were close, but to be 100% truthful about it, it’s the pasta sauce i’m high on. FSM forever! Death by 10,000 noodles to all non-believers!
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Could he not also be inflated with hydrogen? I’m just saying.
V[/quote]
Honestly, I think it’s just hot air.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Could he not also be inflated with hydrogen? I’m just saying.
V
Honestly, I think it’s just hot air.[/quote]
OH! Burn! Man, you got me there. Wow, you are witty. “Hot air.” Oh my, I think I just peed a little.
[quote]jackzepplin wrote:
Oh my, I think I just peed a little.[/quote]
Might want to get that checked out…
[quote]jackzepplin wrote:
I think I just peed a little.[/quote]
Better get that leak checked out before you start flying across the room.
I also replied to your parenting example, maybe you missed it?
I don’t mean to introduce more questions to an already heated debate, and it looks like this post is slowing down, but I have a quick question.
What do people who believe in God and Creation think about other explanations about the origins of our existence? Do Native American, Aborigine or other tribal myths lack credence, or is it enough that each group creates or believes in something that serves their own purpose?
The original purpose of this debate is to determine whether or not concepts other than those contained within a “Science” curriculum should be taught in public schools. The key word is “public”. I think there is little debate as to whether people have the right to believe in whatever they wish, and subsequently teach their children whatever they wish, but the argument is, should that belief be taught without regard for any other person’s (or families) beliefs? We are guaranteed religious freedom within the Constitution, and no one should be discrimminated because of THEIR relilgious beliefs, so by introducing concepts in a public venue that someone (or in this case, a parent) may not wish to entertain, is this not considered a form of discrimmination (“You may not believe this, but we’re going to teach it to you anyways, and you can’t do anything about it.”)?
Public schools should be for one thing: delivery of the basic skills needed to provide the child with a means to support themselves in the future (i.e. reading, writing, math, science, physical education, etc.). If you want to teach your child about Creation, Buddha or any other religion, then by all means, please do so, but not in a public school. I haven’t been to Sunday school for many years, but the last time I was there, there wasn’t a movement to begin a Darwinian discussion group.
Human beings have a characteristic that is both a curse and a blessing: free will. Choice, and the power of a free thinking rationale mind can be both the greatest contribution to our civilization (landing man on the moon), a detriment and may lead to the possible destruction of humanity (hydrogen bombs and Twinkies: we will either become explorers or fat,lazy radioactive couch potatos watching reality TV). With free will, each person is able to make their own choices as to how they feel the world was created and how to teach this to their children, the hard part is accepting the fact that not everyone thinks the same as we do. Some people may find this hard to believe, but not everyone can see that Creation is a story told by people to explain something that was beyond their level of comprehension, or that evolution is a fabricated piece of “science” that has so many holes in it, you’d have to be ignorant just to think it’s plausible.
Free will is a universal trait, and trying to supress this will only lead to contempt and hatred. So, whatever you choose to teach your children about the creation of the universe, leave public schools to teach the children the skills to use that free will and make their OWN decisions, and in time, let them decide what they believe.
I intend no disrespect or offense to those who consider themselves religious (sorry, can’t think of a better term), but imposing your ideas on the rest of us (non-religious evoluntionists) , just because you happen to feel very strongly about something, is neither right, nor justified. Please don’t try to convince us that we’re wrong, because in our rationale minds, it just doesn’t make sense.
To each, their own.
Kent Lorenz
[quote]pookie wrote:
I also replied to your parenting example, maybe you missed it?
[/quote]
Nope. I saw it just fine. I even read it.
Oh!?!? You expect a response?
Sorry, I just thought you might go away if we ignored your attempts at being an intellectual.
[quote]sharetrader wrote:
WMD wrote:
When you turn it into a law and insist everone else believe on pain of imprisonment or death. Or if you decide to blow up and abortion clinic because you so fervently believe in the Green Cheese Moon. Or you beat some gay guy to death because the Holy Book of the Green Cheese Moon says it is abomination to be gay. Stuff like that.
I don’t do any of the above. Most of the world’s Christians don’t do any of the above.
I don’t think anyone here has a problem with the faith in and of itself, at least I don’t. The problem arises when the faithful can’t control themselves and begin to insist everyone else believe it, too or you’re goin’ to hell or you have to die or some such thing.
Agreed
While no one has said such a thing yet on this thread, this is the frequent behavior of Christians in our culture. And throughout history.
Agree on the history aspect - at least some of the time. But don’t agree that it is a dominant characteristic of modern Christians. Characteristic of a particular brand of modern Christian, yes, but they are a minority - even in the US.[/quote]
You are probably right that most Christians don’t behave that way. However the very vocal and politically active Fundamentalist minority has developed an inordinate amount of power in this country, thanks to our president and Republican pandering to them.
As far as history goes, I’m afraid
Christianity has one of the worst records for human rights violations: the Crusades, the various Inquisitions, witch hunts and I’m afraid that even the Holocaust can to a large extent be laid at Christian feet. The bloody battles and massacres of the Wars of Religion in France, Germany and other parts of Europe. I could go on. I study the history of Christianity in grad school, so this is an important subject to me. I think that Christian fundamentalism is a real threat to our democratic republic. You should read some of the things JJJJ and ZEB post on these boards sometime. If other Christians disagree with the fundamentalists, you need to step up and make your voices heard. It sure would do me a world of good.
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
WMD
[quote]WMD wrote:
As far as history goes, I’m afraid
Christianity has one of the worst records for human rights violations: the Crusades, the various Inquisitions, witch hunts and I’m afraid that even the Holocaust can to a large extent be laid at Christian feet. The bloody battles and massacres of the Wars of Religion in France, Germany and other parts of Europe. I could go on. I study the history of Christianity in grad school, so this is an important subject to me. I think that Christian fundamentalism is a real threat to our democratic republic. You should read some of the things JJJJ and ZEB post on these boards sometime. If other Christians disagree with the fundamentalists, you need to step up and make your voices heard. It sure would do me a world of good.
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
WMD[/quote]
You’re welcome. WRT history of Christianity, you would know better than most that the Crusades were largely a response to the threat of Islam. Also I suggest that most of the violent activity you mentioned was driven by leaders who paid lip service to Christianity but whose real motive was power. Does this sound familiar?
Of course, Christianity is not the only religion in whose name despots have committed atrocities. Just that at the moment, the majority of peace-loving, law-abiding Christians are copping some bad PR because of the actions of a few zealots.
[quote]Xvim wrote:
sharetrader wrote:
Not quite sure what you’re getting at here. I’m not aware of any attempts to codify specifically Christian beliefs into law.
Interesting, I take it you’re not a citizen of the US or don’t follow our news here in the States much?
[/quote]
Correct, I am not a citizen of the US. However, I suspect that the sort of thing you’re thinking about (eg anti-abortion campaigning), although led by prominent right-wing Christians, espouses views that are not specifically Christian and indeed, might be shared by people of other religions or of no religion.
If you’re talking about the ID issue, I think I’ve made it clear that I don’t agree with teaching ID as science and also that I don’t think the majority of Christians would agree with it either. Heck, the last Pope made it clear that evolution was OK! Hence in my opinion it is also not a “Christian” issue.
[quote]WMD wrote:
sharetrader wrote:
WMD wrote:
You are probably right that most Christians don’t behave that way. However the very vocal and politically active Fundamentalist minority has developed an inordinate amount of power in this country, thanks to our president and Republican pandering to them.
…
If other Christians disagree with the fundamentalists, you need to step up and make your voices heard. It sure would do me a world of good.
WMD[/quote]
You are right on both points. Hope my speaking up on this thread has helped. It is a great pity that a vocal minority has been given so much power. However, I am hopeful that it is less power than it seems. The media have a great interest in puffing things up to sell eyeballs to their advertisers.
[quote]sharetrader wrote:
You are right on both points. Hope my speaking up on this thread has helped. It is a great pity that a vocal minority has been given so much power. However, I am hopeful that it is less power than it seems. The media have a great interest in puffing things up to sell eyeballs to their advertisers.
[/quote]
Maybe we can get sharetrader to move to Kansas and get elected to the state education board. Whaddaya think, pal? Can you fix this nonsense for us? 
I think there’s a couple of other states mulling this over right now. Pennsylvania?
[quote]jackzepplin wrote:
pookie wrote:
I also replied to your parenting example, maybe you missed it?
Nope. I saw it just fine. I even read it.
Oh!?!? You expect a response?
Sorry, I just thought you might go away if we ignored your attempts at being an intellectual.[/quote]
You’re new here, aren’t you?
[quote]pookie wrote:
You’re new here, aren’t you?
[/quote]
Dear Newbie, it appears that you signed up in 2004, while I was a member before they were tracking membership sign-ups (probably about four or five years longer than you). So, crawl back into your hole.
[quote]WMD wrote:
sharetrader wrote:
larryb wrote:
sharetrader wrote:
… But I also think a lot of the comment on this thread showed that some people find Christians and their beliefs threatening for some reason.
When those beliefs require ignoring evidence, logic, and reason, then they are threatening, as well as directly harmful.
Rubbish! I could believe the moon was made of green cheese, how does this threaten you?
When you turn it into a law and insist everone else believe on pain of imprisonment or death. Or if you decide to blow up and abortion clinic because you so fervently believe in the Green Cheese Moon. Or you beat some gay guy to death because the Holy Book of the Green Cheese Moon says it is abomination to be gay. Stuff like that.[/quote]
No, I think irrational religious beliefs are harmful even if they are not imposed on non-believers and do not directly impact non-believers. Such beliefs create an irrational mindset. If someone is firmly convinced of some fact despite a large amount of evidence to the contrary, or (figuratively speaking) puts his fingers in his ears and says “Na, na, na” whenever there is a mention of such evidence, then that person probably has little respect for evidence and logic in general.
[quote]jackzepplin wrote:
If you can honestly answer, no, then I don?t believe you. [/quote]
If he can HONESTLY answer no, then why the hell wouldn’t you believe him? I guess typing that into Microsoft word and reading it over didn’t work out too well for you did it?