Alex_uk: 40 years in the making

This is definitely a place where I process thoughts, I don’t do much internalisation - so this is a useful platform; nice to have others around to discuss and provoke thoughts and challenges.

Appreciate the encouragement - I’m definitely 30kg behind you on the strict press - because I’ve only ever done 80kg strict, but I’m guessing you mean closer because the momentum is there? I’ve taken your wisdom and been increasing the overhead pressing frequency, mixing it up between, seated, standing, different implements, leg drive/not etc to try and build the pressing strength all-round.

Plymouth brethren?

There’s a couple of examples I like to apply here from Acts, I’ll give the one that I remember best, I’m Acts 15 Paul argues “vehemently” against some Judeans about the necessity of circumcision. Then in Acts 16 we’re introduced to Timothy and Paul wants to take him on his mission trip, so circumcises him. Has Paul forgotten what he just argued against or, is it because he knows that Timothy being uncircumcised will hinder the message of the gospel and cause offense to the Jews?

Given Paul later writes:

It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else if it might cause another believer to stumble.

And:

I appeal to you, dear brothers and sisters, by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, to live in harmony with each other. Let there be no divisions in the church. Rather, be of one mind, united in thought and purpose.

I’m comfortable saying that Paul is happy to lay peripheral issues aside and place unity of believers above personal views on such issues.

That’s not to say we can’t have those discussions or thoughts but too many Christian’s over the centuries have divided themselves over relatively minor theological differences, so I always start with those thoughts in mind.

The church I go to (and am very heavily involved in) happens to be Arminian, but they walk out the gospel so well, that I couldn’t see myself going anywhere else. I’ve been to churches that more closely aligned to my doctrinal view points - but they didn’t have the same missional drive, and orthodoxy without orthopraxy is meaningless.

Sorry that was a very long ramble that didn’t really relate to your comment. I guess just explaining where I start with all of this.

I like theology, I like enjoy discussing and debating with others of a different view point, I try not to be intransigent and try to bring everything back to scripture.

Sounds like a good starting point - or even an end point! When all’s said and done - we’ll find out the truth eventually and Luis de Molina will have been right along! (Kidding Molinism is just straight up wrong :winking_face_with_tongue:).

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I find the same thing. I have no idea what’s going to bubble up once I start writing, and I also frequently find myself resolving things as I write. It accesses a different part of my brain, it seems.

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Same here. I love a good brain dump. Sometimes there is so much just floating around in there that I need to get it out in order to process and make some order out of it. It’s funny how obvious things become to me as I am writing. I like when I start out with a question, talk my way through like 10 circles, and end my post with an answer to my own question. Lol.

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See, we are really stretching the definition of the word “strict”. Better to compare push press or something. Probably only 15 or 20 kilo ahead.

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Spot on. And they are super intolerant of any alternative views.

I agree all the way on this one.
There are some actual heresies which need to be called out, but in the main this disagreements are about fringe issues.

to echo James: I will show you my faith by my works.
What we do with our faith matters and thats why Ive started questioning the beliefs Ive been rasied with, as we (as a group) say one thing and do another.

Im a relative babe in the woods on this stuff so wont hold a candle to you but happy to read along and take recommendations for reading etc.

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I’m generally pretty difficult to outright offend as well. I’m generally either a very open closed-minded person or a closed open-minded person. XD I’m a Christian although I’m definitely more Armenian, although not necessarily in the extreme. This fall I read the book “Does God Love Everyone?” by Jerry Walls, and while It’s not a massive deep dive into the subject per se, It’s a great little book that does a good job at summing up many of my own views toward Reformed theology and why I personally do not hold to the Calvinist perspective. With that being said though I also respect and share your views on the last couple sentences I quoted above in addition to this sentiment:

Especially since many times churches fight over piddly little things. I am very firm on things that affect doctrine and salvation but at the same time very respecting of the church as a whole even when I do not always agree with others. :slight_smile:

That’s very interesting. I’ve heard of people who lean Armenian attending more Reformed churches but in my experience It’s a lot less common to see the opposite.

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Religious discussion leaves me behind. I spent until 40 invested in the church of my upbringing. A religious sect that eschews its congregants from really looking to deeply into other faiths, Christian or not. At the age of 40, I was waiting to fall asleep one evening when I wondered where or how a supreme being came from. I even wonder how matter came into being. Is there a physicist out there? Needless to say, the thought made my melon explode. I now have reached a point where I feel faithless. Even angry (but not horribly) about all of those years being told what to do, how to act, the guilt trips, etc. Though not shunned, your friend pool diminishes when you quit attending the church I did. I have visited the Catholic faith. I have attended the Episcopal faith. I found both fascinating. I actually think I am a half baked atheist. But, I have no issues with other’s belief or faith. I am looking forward to see where this thread leads.

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Theology does your head in. I can explain and justify paradoxes to myself because I believe,explaining paradoxes to an unbeliever is way more difficult

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Liking the apostle Paul talk,someone’s studied well.If you can convert a Maori u can convert anyone.

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Never really thought about that, but yes that’s got to be a contributing factor. I think also I used to have a tight group of friends with very different views growing up and we’d spend endless hours debating and chatting stuff through, and even thinking to my family, a very questioning probing family who talk openly and challenge each other.

Reflecting this back, I probably grew up being someone who processes externally and now don’t have the time and space to do so, so this ends up being that space.

Yup, and I even end up getting to the answer, have other people point out the obviousness of the answer, and then still stubbornly proceed in the opposite direction (see my most recent change of programming and how long that took me to get to the right point).

Oh yes, it’s an interesting denomination!

Yup, shame we (the Christian faith) can’t just agree on those and after that rejoice in our shared faith in love and unity!

Good for you, it’s hard sometimes to even recognise the depths that the formation runs, but questioning the dogma is healthy, if it’s true it will withstands any criticism if it’s not, it will fail and it needs to.

I remember when I first came to faith (26 years old) I instantly fell into the patterns of belief and thinking I’d grew up with, which included a strong view on spiritual gifts (cessationist). Took me a couple of years to really see there isn’t any biblical rationale for that view point, and whilst I’m still very cautious and generally quite skeptical (the upbringing still having that impact), I go with what I see in the bible and measure everything by that.

Likewise, currently listening to falling upwards - a recommendation by @BethB, which would be quite far from my usual reading (I’m really not a fan of the Catholic church) but it’s good to be challenged and recognise that God doesn’t exclusively work in my neatly organised framework!

Thanks I’ll add it to my reading list!

Great to hear, I try to be the same, recognising that we all see through a glass darkly, I’m just as likely as the next believer to have erroneous views. If the church as a whole could just approach differences with this mindset it would be a much more Christ-like place.

Yea I guess so, I think reformed believers tend to be more dogmatic overall (the chosen frozen) - I even saw on a reformed forum a discussion on whether Arminians are even real Christians (I think they graciously concluded they are still saved, despite the very great heresy :rofl:) Christian’s can be a bit of a nutty group overall! (Not many wise not many noble!).

Haha, what a lovely description. Sorry to hear about your upbringing and journey, it’s sad that some churches have sought to exert control by limiting knowledge. We’re instructed to be transformed by the renewing of our mind, how can we do that when there are “guardians” who restrict, not enable. Real leaders of the faith are overjoyed to see others raised up and walking after Christ (Paul said imitate me as I imitate Christ, if our leaders aren’t initiating Christ they’re no leaders at all - Christ raised up disciples from the lowly and the uneducated). Sorry ramble over.

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I’m useless in a theological discussion. But I do enjoy following along.

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I’d guess you’re more under confident, than useless!

This made me smile:

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Oddly enough, I hadn’t really thought of this book as a Catholic book when I suggested it to you. Lol.

Women are an integral part of the body of Christ. I was actually raised for the most part by a solo mother who directed bible teachings(whether I followed is another conversation entirely lol) but some so-called Christian denominations have got it wrong making clergy a completely male dominated bastion. Without women contributing,it’s not Christian.

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Final drill night of the year, doubled up, ate a massive mixed meat kebab and chips, felt sick as a dog then went and hit a brief bench session.

Bench: 60, 80, 90, 100kg X some 110kg x 8.

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I am praying that it leads you Jesus! :heart:

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I’ve found out that surprisingly many people aren’t ready for open discussions about difficult topics. I suspect it’s mainly because their stand is not well enough thought out or they feel vulnerable for some other reason. You ask ”wrong” questions and you’ll get aggression. It kinda tells me everything I need to know. And topics like religion really stirs up emotions in people.

Not that this applies to you. You seem to have really stable views and good self esteem. Which I appreciate a lot.

And you’re a strong as F as a bencher/presser. Good job!

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I’ve thought about religion and faith quite a bit in my life. Young me was naive anti-religion leftist, but in uni. I did study religions a bit and even looked in to theology. I also made a bunch of christian friends, some of them being much more intelligent than me. Some deep talks and reading more about the topic has really made my views much more positive.

I’ve said this before, but I ”label” my self as a pro-Christian agnostic (I do see the change of creator as a possibility, but I can’t say what it’s nature might be). And or course I’m very tolerant/liberal towards all religions/faiths as long as they spread more good than bad around.

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Merry Christmas Alex! :christmas_tree:

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Thanks Beth, hope you and the family had a good one?

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