It was a genuine question. No intent to trap or set up.
The reason I asked is that 531 seems to really gel for people with performance goals, less so for others.
It was a genuine question. No intent to trap or set up.
The reason I asked is that 531 seems to really gel for people with performance goals, less so for others.
For a lot of folks, itās their first approach to TRULY ātraining like an athleteā, vs the gimmicks that get sold that are just lifting weights with some box jumps and tire flips thrown in.
Training so that, when you step out onto the competition floor, you perform well. Not just adding some āexplosiveā stuff to a regular training program.
I didnāt mean to imply that. I guess Iām just used to other forums and being dismissed pretty quickly when my questions might seem obvious to other people who have been in the game longer. My apologies.
I actually almost didnāt post here as I thought the place looked a little inactive. I didnāt spot any bravado that a lot of other places have though and Iām super glad I signed up and posted on the off chance. Iāve had more interaction than I thought I would and everyoneās been super helpful. Iām very grateful that you all are helping me with this little headache Iāve drummed up for myself.
In terms of my goals, Iām questioning them myself and theyāve seemed to ebb and flow this past week. All other programs Iāve looked at and much of the blogs etc itās all about strength, strength, strength and busting through plateaus any way you can. Thatās kind of what Iām chasing but I didnāt realize there could be more to it than that. I thought āstrength program then iāll add some cardio if i wantā. What you just said about performance goals, i must ask for you to elaborate on that and what it exactly means. And who are āthe others?ā
Awesome. I think youāre the second person to say you wish you got on board sooner - I guess I shouldnāt hesitate! Thanks for your recommendation.
The community here is fantastic and supportive, for sure. And, obviously, Iām awesome.
I didnāt really go into much detail here because I didnāt want to sound dismissive of others goals. By āthe othersā, I mean people whose primary aim is to look good naked or on their instagram feed. These goals are absolutely fine, they just donāt gel very well with the 531 mindset, in my experience.
I mean that there is a āperformanceā at the end of it. Whether thatās a particular sport youāre looking to play, a competition to enter or something a little more nebulous. Jim Wendler talks about training so you donāt lose your claws. Brian Alsruhe talks about training to be dangerous. Our own @T3hPwnisher talks about training to be more trouble than your worth. These are all performance goals. The point is that the training is vectored towards to being able to do X, rather than looking a certain way, or to gather praise along the way. And to be clear again, I donāt believe there is anything wrong with training to look good naked. I also donāt believe thereās anything wrong with training in order to get praise or recognition when you post it online, just that these mindsets fit poorly with 531.
And, to be clear, if this is your mindset, 531 can help you accomplish it - itās just not the mindset of the majority using 531.
I wanted to stop by this thread to highlight one or two things about 531 that stands out to me, but I welcome others that have followed 531 more judiciously and longer than me to disagree if necessary.
If you come into it from just having lifted weights, itād be a mistake to only focus on that aspect. Pay heed to the conditioning. If you purchase Forever the different templates have varying number of days of easy/hard conditioning. Donāt skip throws and jumps. Do something for mobility (it doesnāt have to be Limber 8 or Agile 11 but do something).
And, depending on the template a 531 session might not constitute a lot of work in the gym. That creates room for movement outside the gym.
On Jimās webpage he has an article (The Misfits, Training While Injured and Why You Should Stop Looking at Men) that outlines some daily work that consists of
Dips - 100 total reps
Chin/Pull-ups - 50 total reps
Back Raises - 100 reps
Prowler - 12 x 40 yards
To do alongside a beginner program Wendler had on his website which you can find using the Wayback machine.
Sorry for the delayed reply, it was my first day of signing up so I had to wait to post again.
Nebulous is a great way to describe me at the moment. Coming from the thought of just lift weights and get bigger/stronger is the only school iāve been looking into. Iām 32 though, iām not interested in ever doing a meet of any kind. My health should take priority and i seem to keep flirting with ādo more cardioā and ānope, eat more, gain moreā. The ethos Wendler (and you) describe seems to be much more balanced going long-term.
I have the 5/3/1 second edition book now which i will read through several times to try to understand more. Iāve decided i want to start when iām fresh from a deload to do it properly though. This could be 4-5 weeks away which is fine for me as itāll give me chance to learn as much as i can and even play around with my current training incorporating some of the principals of 5/3/1 getting me ready to jump into something so different.
Today i had planned to bench 4x10 of 80kg but after reading about someone doing a 5x5 @ 80% on 5/3/1, i ended up doing 82.5kg 5x5 (105kg is biggest iāve benched). I understand that thatās not 80% of a 90% training max but iām just playing around. On the last set i ended up doing 7 reps as it felt too easy, even though it wasnāt meant to be an AMRAP, and i could have done a lot more. I canāt imagine how easy this kind of stuff will feel working from a training max. I know itāll all be worth it to progress for longer but itās going to take a lot of discipline after pushing so hard for my so long (since i began training) .
I always thought for more conditioning iād just end up adding more cardio but working out the same. Itās great that iāll be able to find it all planned out for me. I dog walk a few miles every day and was considering just getting a weighted vest and leaving it at that.
If the weight is easy, focus on moving it FASTER.
The faster I do my sets the more reps I feel I can get through? (irrelevant i guess? itās training me to produce more power and i should still stop at the prescribed reps)
Your notion of progress is one I find confusing.
Letās say we were running 100 meters. I run it in 9 seconds flat. You run it in 9:45.
Next time we run, I run it it 8:56. You run it in 9:45. Then, after weāre done, you end up running an extra 10 meters.
Which one of us demonstrated progress?
Good point. Well made.
Iāve just heard so much about slowing the movement down, time under tension to increase difficulty etc. When I was doing my first makeshift BBB sets before doing much reading i even slowed them down so it would at least feel like i was doing something. I understand that there are many different ways to train though.
EDIT: I should add that i once did a set of 12 or 13 i was aiming to get 10 on and somebody told me it didnāt count because i was doing my set too fast which made it easier.
Youāre once again looking at this like itās a lifting program vs a program for athletes. And again: there is nothing WRONG with wanting to be big and move big weight in the gym. There are simply BETTER approaches for that goal. 5/3/1 improves you all over. Part of that includes being bigger and stronger, but it canāt ALL be that.
Have you mapped out two or three cycles so that you can see what your training would look like? There are spread sheets available (I built my own) that will do this for you. Then, you can look ahead and see what your 5ās week will look like in three months.
There are also endless variations - 5ās Progressive, AMRAP, Joker sets - all to get you the appropriate volume/effort.
You may already know that, donāt mean do be patronizing if you do.
Jimās mantra, start low, progress slow, set PRās is legit. For me, tracking PRās for my AMRAP sets at particular weights was motivating.
Not as yet. I still need to read the book all the way through. I get the mantra and i love it. I guess iām just trying to figure out what my goal really is. How much stock i want to put into continuing to get bigger and stronger and if itās all my stock then maybe 5/3/1 isnāt right for me. The conditioning aspect is also alluring though and how i feel iām sure is more important than what i can lift. As mentioned you can still get big and strong with 5/3/1, It just may not be the best approach.
I think you should choose one master to serve - size or strength. There are templates available for both, but itās one or the other.
Obviously, if you get stronger, you will get bigger, and vice versa, but trying to do both at the same time isnāt effective - just my opinion.
You will certainly enjoy reading.
For my $0.02, I will say:
The folks on here that commit to 5/3/1 long term seem to make progress without exception. I canāt say that for anyone else.
What @dagill2 says about it not clicking for us wussier types rings true: Iāve never stuck with it.
5/3/1 Forever is an extraordinarily confusing read (for me); Iād stick with the OG for now.
Thank you for posting this.
5/3/1 hasnāt clicked for me yet. Iām reading Forever so maybe that will change (probably will take 3-4 reads according to pwn)
IME, 5/3/1 has helped much more with upper body than lower body in terms of strength. Hypertrophy has never been my goal so I cannot speak to that
@TrainForPain I donāt think anyone here thinks youāre a wussā¦
@cdep89
In terms of losing progress, I donāt think thatās an issue. the volume required to maintain progress is <1/2 of the volume used to get there. Top end strength might go down, but that should come back quickly with a short peak, which is part of some of the 5/3/1 programs