Advice for Next Cycle Components

Pharma
41

[quote]5.0 wrote:
InTheZone wrote:

      Ok some new ideas that could be within reach.

  1. test e/tren e: 400/350. Nice, should be ok w/prolactin issues at this dose, but being enan, smart choice would be get some caber…that’s money again…

  2. test e/eq: 400/350. nice.

Again, I would love to go test e/tren ace, but issues about the weekend and windows of opportunity for the dirty deed are a plenty.

                 Gotta run!
                     
                       ToneBone

And this is going to be a 12 weeker? With number two, the ratios will keep your libido in the shitta’. I realize to each their own, and am experiencing it myself, but it’s been suggested the ratio for test:EQ be 5:3. So maybe, depending on your own sensitivities, up the test, or lower the EQ.

Alternatively, in the thread about ligaments and tendons, the suggested dosing for EQ was 3mg per kg of body weight. Since you’re about 200 pounds, that’s in the neighborhood of 90 kg, getting your EQ dosing in the range of 300 as it is. Only again suggesting a better way to go could be 500:300.

Something else to chew on.[/quote]

        Settle down now buddy, why the question about "this is going to be a 12 weeker?" I said 12-14, and I don't see anything wrong with that. I'd probably go with a taper on this route too.

Yeah the second option might tank the libido, but I already said at least FOR THIS particular cycle, I don’t give a rats ass about my libido.
I AM however, thinking about my shoulders and how some extra eq could help that situation out. So yeah appreciate the banter, but maybe 500-300 would be better, but for you, not me. I think being 50mg over the supposed correct dose isn’t going to hurt anything, might even help more with my delts. So I would go with what I put down there most likely, but will take what you’ve said and think about that.
I do like the masteron, and was thinking about increasing that in a combo, but then you have the extreme “hardening” or “drying” out effect from such a large dose, and that might pose a problem for the delts again…

I’m trying to keep whatever I go with at 750/week total. To insure solid but not TOO noticeable gains. Better to ramp up dosages a little at a time imo. 750 should be a great ride for me, considering how I did on 400 for 3 out of 4 weeks recently. Anyway, now if I did indeed accidentally aquire a half dosed bottle of adex, then I could tweak around the test dosage a bit higher after getting a correctly dosed bottle.

            One other that would be nice is test/eq/mast. Like lil guy was saying...but at any rate whatever it ends up being should be a fun time.

       Again, I like to keep it simple and easy.

So, I’ll be finding out some more info today probably and get back to you later. Thanks for the comments 5.0.
I appreciate the feedback. Oh, and btw, how far into your cycle are you now, and how are your gains compared to the last one, which was test only correct??

                    ToneBone
42

[quote]LillGuy001 wrote:
Regarding ratios and libido. Im currently running 300mg test E and 450mg EQ and my libido is still that of a 20 yr old.

Not quite what it is at a gram a week, but still definatley up there.[/quote]

See this is what I’m talking about 5.0. What it comes down to is you have to experiment on your own regardless, and sometimes, or frequently, what works at one dose for someone doesn’t for another etc. Most of us here, or at least you and I and a few others, have about the same base of knowledge and experience with all these things. The rest of the “knowledge” we garner is from reading and talking to these other guys who are the real vets, and have loads more experience than us.
But you have to remember just because you read it somewhere, or someone told you this or that, it isn’t necessarily going to go like what might be predicted etc.
That’s why I listen and talk about a lot of things, then I just put my own bodys intuition into making a decision, and frequently it is different than the average guys ideas here on the forum.

        Makes for interesting fodder now doesn't it buddy? 

   Let me shutup now, and stop flappin my gums.

                  ToneBone
43 
         If I went that route, test/eq, I'm now thinking I would make it an even 800/week total, with 400 each compound. 


                     ciao.
44

I wasn’t questioning the length of the cycle - personally I prefer that. I was just imagining 12 weeks without a, or very little, sex drive is all. And in reading all the member’s posts, I know each compound will affect each of us differently.

Sometimes I find myself caught up in the cycle I’m doing, and that’s all I can blather about. Far be it from me, though, to think it’s the best for you or anyone else. I’m simply offering an opinion, which is probably worth less than the two cents we always joke about, anyway.

45

[quote]5.0 wrote:
I wasn’t questioning the length of the cycle - personally I prefer that. I was just imagining 12 weeks without a, or very little, sex drive is all. And in reading all the member’s posts, I know each compound will affect each of us differently.

Sometimes I find myself caught up in the cycle I’m doing, and that’s all I can blather about. Far be it from me, though, to think it’s the best for you or anyone else. I’m simply offering an opinion, which is probably worth less than the two cents we always joke about, anyway.[/quote]

       Ha, no worries, it's good for us to toss the ideas back and forth and I take all of it into consideration. I think I'll have a surprise ending that's going to be superb my friend, MWAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!

          I'll save this for after my workout,

be back in a couple hours with the “winner”!!

                 ToneBone
46 
         It's down to this protocol for each of two different schemes now.

Let’s remember, summer is almost here, I want to be leaner. So, not being too sure about how strong the urge to slam every pizza pie in sight on eq has me leaning towards the more exotic but lower dosed of the two schemes.

  1. test-e/tren-e @ 400/200 per week. Conservative, but still higher than my recent shorty, and also comparing 100 mg mast to 200 mg tren is well,… not fair, lol.

  2. test-e/eq @ 400/400 per week. Significantly higher dose of androgens, and complimentary towards further success of shoulders which are coming along nicely.

  • recent shorty: 300/100 testpp/mast per week.

         So, either of the new cycles should stomp the recent shorty fairly well I think. I could up the first option to 500/250, however, there is a significant price difference and that's probably more realistic with what I can afford to do. Plus with the tren being enan, I would rather play it safe at first to establish side tolerance, thus the lower dose.

  1. PRO’s- very dry/vascular/hard/strong. Perfect for a summer cut.
    CON’s- no help to delts, possible tren sides, sleeping etc, (doubtful at 200/week though).

  2. PRO’s- Good dose of both. Controllable sides from test, joint benefits of eq etc. If diet kept in check, could also be used to cut, and produce nice looking gains.
    CON’s- Might not be able to control appetite increase, thus turning a summer cut into a buffet from hell, libido tanked possibly, but who cares, not me.

             So, I'm inclined to say I'm going to go with the first option gang. But it depends on the final roundtable discussion from all of you, so please chime in and let me know what floats your boats between the two choices now.

             thanks guys,

               ToneBone
47

[quote]InTheZone wrote:

  1. test-e/tren-e @ 400/200 per week. Conservative, but still higher than my recent shorty, and also comparing 100 mg mast to 200 mg tren is well,… not fair, lol.

                   ToneBone[/quote]

I pick door number 1 all the way bro. I think you can deal with any sides you may obtain at 200mg/week PLUS your get friggen HARD for this summer and turn your arms into road maps :slight_smile: I’ll tell one thing i wish i would have included tren in mine. go for it.

48

[quote]InTheZone wrote:

         It's down to this protocol for each of two different schemes now.

Let’s remember, summer is almost here, I want to be leaner. So, not being too sure about how strong the urge to slam every pizza pie in sight on eq has me leaning towards the more exotic but lower dosed of the two schemes.

  1. test-e/tren-e @ 400/200 per week. Conservative, but still higher than my recent shorty, and also comparing 100 mg mast to 200 mg tren is well,… not fair, lol.

    ToneBone[/quote]

Tren is an excellent cutting steroid and its very powerful so you don’t need high doses. This looks good. If you were getting results with lower doses than there’s no need to go high at this stage of the game. Higher and you run more of a risk of getting gyno and other undesirable sides.

I just started my cycle last week. Test E 250 and mast E 250 EW with 2 iu HGH ED for now (on day 3 of HGH). Right now I’ve been dieting using Dave Palumbo’s diet and doing lots of light cardio but in 8 or 9 weeks, I’m hitting some Dbol, EQ, and Tren, test and HGH. I’ll post some pics up on my profile when I’m done.

49

I like the test+tren option best Tone. However, I believe it would be in your best interest to up the tren to 300mg/wk. Anything less than that in my trainees has proven somewhat of a waste. And besides, you don’t need to worry about side effects since you’re not using acetate-- the sides associated with acetate (insomnia and irritability especially) seem to be almost non-existent with enanthate.

That combined with 400mg/wk of test will suit you very well. To be perfectly honest,ou could run this as short as 8 weeks or as long as 12 weeks. I’d advise running the tren right smack in the middle for 3-6 weeks depending on your cycle length and preference.

World

50

Tone, I’ve been e-mailing back and forth with you, but I will say here so others know my opinion, and could potentially discuss. I’ll leave out the dosing info, but will just give my ideas about compounds.

I’ll also throw in here that I have good reason to believe the adex you have is 1/2 the concentration it should be. Just my thoughts given the recent outcomes and discussion here. I already told you, but just posting my thoughts here for others’ benefits.

test/tren: my preferred option. I’d suggest tren a (personal preference, and easy to manage sides as you don’t know how you’ll react to it), but tren e would be fine. Tren is powerful shit, and even something like 400 test, 200 tren would be adequate (mild, but certainly effective). I would suggest a slightly higher dose of tren, but it is pricey, and comparing cost effectiveness and outcome, 200mg/wk would show through with increased hardness and fat loss. I would PREFER 300-350mg/wk, but 200 is adequate.

test/mast: this is a good combo, and would be my second choice except with one exception. I think higher doses of mast would result in excessive muscle tightness that could interfere with your shoulder rehabilitation. Tren has a nice hardening effect that is slightly different from mast in that it doesn’t seem to cause excessive muscle tightness. The 100mg/wk you did wouldn’t do much in this regard, but 300+ mg/wk would certainly make this effect apparent.

test/eq: good, but bad for appetite/dieting

test alone: cheap, effective, already gave reasons. I prefer test/tren, but if cost is an issue I would load up on test.

My final recommendation: total of 750mg/wk. Load up on testosterone and replace what you can with tren as current funds allow up to 300mg/wk tren.

I’d also use tren ace. No need to load up on a prolactin antagonist as you can just stop/lower the dose if sides occur. You save money, as with the longer ester you would need the ancillary on hand. With such a low dose you have a VERY LOW chance of anything happening, but being cautious it helps. Some people get overly aggressive, depressed, shit sleep, BP, etc. with tren. It is a VERY potent androgen and the ace ester allows you to quickly modify dosing to augment side effects. It also kicks in quicker and will leave your system quicker, which will act as a quick kickstart and also result in quicker and easier recovery post cycle.

51

[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
Tone, I’ve been e-mailing back and forth with you, but I will say here so others know my opinion, and could potentially discuss. I’ll leave out the dosing info, but will just give my ideas about compounds.

I’ll also throw in here that I have good reason to believe the adex you have is 1/2 the concentration it should be. Just my thoughts given the recent outcomes and discussion here. I already told you, but just posting my thoughts here for others’ benefits.

test/tren: my preferred option. I’d suggest tren a (personal preference, and easy to manage sides as you don’t know how you’ll react to it), but tren e would be fine. Tren is powerful shit, and even something like 400 test, 200 tren would be adequate (mild, but certainly effective). I would suggest a slightly higher dose of tren, but it is pricey, and comparing cost effectiveness and outcome, 200mg/wk would show through with increased hardness and fat loss. I would PREFER 300-350mg/wk, but 200 is adequate.

test/mast: this is a good combo, and would be my second choice except with one exception. I think higher doses of mast would result in excessive muscle tightness that could interfere with your shoulder rehabilitation. Tren has a nice hardening effect that is slightly different from mast in that it doesn’t seem to cause excessive muscle tightness. The 100mg/wk you did wouldn’t do much in this regard, but 300+ mg/wk would certainly make this effect apparent.

test/eq: good, but bad for appetite/dieting

test alone: cheap, effective, already gave reasons. I prefer test/tren, but if cost is an issue I would load up on test.

My final recommendation: total of 750mg/wk. Load up on testosterone and replace what you can with tren as current funds allow up to 300mg/wk tren.

I’d also use tren ace. No need to load up on a prolactin antagonist as you can just stop/lower the dose if sides occur. You save money, as with the longer ester you would need the ancillary on hand. With such a low dose you have a VERY LOW chance of anything happening, but being cautious it helps. Some people get overly aggressive, depressed, shit sleep, BP, etc. with tren. It is a VERY potent androgen and the ace ester allows you to quickly modify dosing to augment side effects. It also kicks in quicker and will leave your system quicker, which will act as a quick kickstart and also result in quicker and easier recovery post cycle.[/quote]

              Great post as usual.

I totally hear you on the tren ace, fuck the cost of caber is insane. I didn’t even find it on the usual suspects page, and the more expensive “older brother” wants fricking 199.00 a bottle!! I could never afford that.

The thing is with frequency, ace is what ed? My M/W/F protocol went great, and best I could do if I’m being honest again, is eod, so I don’t know if that’s a go with tren ace or not.

               We'll see, could always go with the economically sound test/mast again, and keep the mast over the last, but not too high, maybe again like 500/250, or 550/200. Great advice and comments thanks a ton.

                   ToneBone
52

Go with the test and tren tony. Im sure you wont be dissapointed.

Without the addition of the eq there is then no need to go to as many weeks.

And just to clarify, the ratio of test to eq that im currently taking is not one that im reccomending for all. In the case of tony who seems to have side related issues with a moderate dose of test it also may be suitable for him.

53

[quote]LillGuy001 wrote:
Go with the test and tren tony. Im sure you wont be dissapointed.

Without the addition of the eq there is then no need to go to as many weeks.

And just to clarify, the ratio of test to eq that im currently taking is not one that im reccomending for all. In the case of tony who seems to have side related issues with a moderate dose of test it also may be suitable for him.[/quote]

        Yep, that's what I'm going to do. Test e/tren ace. Like Schwarz said, the control one has with ace over enan isn't even close. So, I'd rather do that, start wherever, low, go up from there. And here's how I'm going to do it too. This will no doubt bring up a chorus of "Oh no's", but hey I'll live.

I’m going to go M/W/F, and a Saturday or Sunday shot, if and when the window of op is there. That way hey, while I MIGHT get some mood/side action come Mondays, or whatnot, I’ll have the supreme advantage of controlling the tren completely in my hands. Test e once or twice a week.

          So, to recap, I'm going to go that route, with test e/tren ace. I'm going to use 500/250 for dosing between the two. And I'll use the once/twice a week for the enan, and M/W/F, with a Sat or Sun thrown in whenever and wherever possible.

              Thanks for everything guys. I really enjoyed all of your input and points. They all helped me to come to a confident and reasonable decision I believe.

Looking forward to this coming about in around a month or so, and am still plugging away au natural in the meantime. Workouts going nice, and slowly ramping up on chest and traditional delt work at the moment, while keeping the mass/strength in quads and back I gained from the shorty just finished. So, I'm off to figure out how the hell I'll pay for everything now!!! Ha, haaaa...
       Wish me luck!

                   ToneBone

UPDATE AGAIN: I’m a clown. Here’s the reality guys.

I can’t afford this, but I could afford either the test e at 500/week, and tren ace at 200/week for 10 and 5 weeks respectively at these doses.

Or I could go with test e 500/week, and mast at 200/week for the 10 weeks of both.

Keep in mind I have 4 weeks of drol/win which could take up half the 10 weeks if the first option is chosen, or throw it in with option 2. Sorry I’m so wishy washy about all this.

54

Is there any way you could take more time off and save up money? It seems like you haven’t been off that long anyway. I don’t know what your opportunities are to save money since you’re going to school. Something to consider. Plus the time off would be beneficial for maximizing the effectiveness of the moderate dosing, as you won’t be loading up with a heavy dose.

55

[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
Is there any way you could take more time off and save up money? It seems like you haven’t been off that long anyway. I don’t know what your opportunities are to save money since you’re going to school. Something to consider. Plus the time off would be beneficial for maximizing the effectiveness of the moderate dosing, as you won’t be loading up with a heavy dose.[/quote]

        You're right, I was thinking in terms of another month and a half off. Better served to take maybe 2 to 2.5 off, I just want to be in a new skin at the start of the good weather for obvious reasons of vanity strictly speaking, lol. Yeah, I'll see about putting it away somehow, and possibly taking more time to do it right.

                 ToneBone
56 
        Ok the combo is more affordable than running the different esters, (long/short) with the test/tren.

So I’m now wanting to go with what I feel is relatively conservative in terms of dosage. 400/200, test-e/tren-e per week.

          Caber is ridiculous in price, but this should be tolerable, and I do have adex to keep estro in control, what do you guys think? I know the tren gyno is through a different mechanism, but it still is affected by estro to some extent isn't it? Thus the adex might help, the dose is fairly low, but still ass kickable for ToneBone. So again, what do you think about it, and my need/no need, for caber at that dose?

                   TBN
57

To be perfectly honest with ya Tone, I’m thinking you really won’t need caber at that low dose of tren. I was running it at 575 a week and then around 400 the next week and I didn’t get any sides to speak of besides insomnia…

Could save ya a few bucks. Your call.

World

58

Your right in that a-dex will help wtih the estro even if you are running tren it only requires caber if you get gyno the a-dex will still help prevent it. I also agree with world, even though your test tolerance is low i think these levels should be just fine for you without needing caber

59

[quote]World1187 wrote:
To be perfectly honest with ya Tone, I’m thinking you really won’t need caber at that low dose of tren. I was running it at 575 a week and then around 400 the next week and I didn’t get any sides to speak of besides insomnia…

Could save ya a few bucks. Your call.

World[/quote]

      This is exactly what I was thinking, just wanted to hear some of you "agree" with me before going for it!!

Lol… seriously though, I really don’t see any reason to blow money on it, as stated it’s already fairly low dosed for sides, and the adex SHOULD help PREVENT it from happening in the first place. So, should be solid for me.

                 Thanks,

                  ToneBone
60

[quote]Game_over wrote:
Your right in that a-dex will help wtih the estro even if you are running tren it only requires caber if you get gyno the a-dex will still help prevent it. I also agree with world, even though your test tolerance is low i think these levels should be just fine for you without needing caber[/quote]

          Same response to you Game. Thanks, I really just needed to hear some agreement about this. I feel more confident about going for it now. The levels are low, and let's not also forget, my adex dosing was only half of what I thought I was ingesting on the last cycle, since it was twice over with the alcohol to adex ratio. So that means I really wasn't near as high dosed as I thought, thus, I can feel good about that too, and dose it correctly this time. Just go twice what I did last time and shouldn't have to go as high as I "thought" I was.

              I'm pretty happy and look forward to this for the next pre-summer run. I feel great really and am surprised at how well I'm maintaining the gains almost two weeks post cycle here with the standard fair of just Nolva and a decent trib product.

            Still couldn't be happier with how things have gone on this one. My numbers are almost getting to be pretty decent for me and my age/weight etc. I plan on increasing the numbers even more of course. They were pretty good before the delt injury thing and they are getting back to that now, with legs surpassing where they were already. They were a weak point but are looking a lot better now. Anyway, thanks for chimin in buddy.

                   ToneBone