Advice For HS Football Player

Training Powerlifting
21

[quote]sundanceskiteam wrote:
Does sled sprints one day a week (w/ 45 lb plate) and hill sprints
[/quote]

45 lb. plate? YIKES! External resistance on a sled shouldn’t exceed 10% of one’s bodyweight or it could lead to a detrimental change of his sprint mechanics.
For him, 10 lb. plate should work nicely.

For the hills, same rule applies, sort of. Nothing over a 30% grade of incline, 10-20% is preferred. More could lead to a change in mechanics to compensate for the steepness, which is what we don’t want.

Good that he’s doing acceleration work, however. A football player doesn’t spend a lot of time at top speed, the majority of their efforts are within the realms of stopping and starting/changes of direction.

22

[quote]KBCThird wrote:

One other piece of unsolicited advice is that if I were you I’d ask everyone who’s offering advice exactly what their credentials are. You’ve already got conflicting advice, and I disagree with several of the opinions posted here, so you’ll want to be able to make an informed judgment on the worth of some of this advice. Personally, I played football only at the high school level, however I’ve coached hs football and been the strength coach for almost 5 years.
[/quote]

Played D1 Lacrosse. Coached D1 Lacrosse and D1 Rowing as a strength coach (Am not CSCS certified however). Also competed on national level in rowing and am currently moving back towards that having graduated from college and looking to the 2009 world cup and 2012 olympics (missed this years trials for 08 olys).

I’m not the end all to be all of strength coaches but I have used my own body as a testing field and then transferred that to those I train so I like to think I have at least a bit of credibility.

23

[quote]sundanceskiteam wrote:
He is doing speed work 2x a week.

Does sled sprints one day a week (w/ 45 lb plate) and hill sprints, then does one day of overspeed combined w/ normal sprints of 10, 20, 40, 60 yard sprints. Then has one day of plyometrics and agility drills.

He also has 3 days of spring practice where they do DB drills and one on ones for about 1 hr.

[/quote]

As a safety is he doing sleed sprints in a forward motion as well as a reverse motion? Kind of makes sense to be doing it reverse as well since safety’s and other DB’s tend to be back pedaling a good amount.

Also I’d agree with affliction in regards to not be doing a ton of heavy weight for sleed pulling as it can definitely effect running mechanics. That doesn’t mean he can’t do some heavy sled pulling, but I wouldn’t allow the heavy stuff to be more then the light stuff.

One last point, in regards to the squat in general. Although I feel as though he could stand for more strength there, do not do so at the detriment of other things. If he is lifting heavy for squat then chances are that that may effect increases in other speed/agility which are more important priority at this point. If anything I’d say make the clean a priority over squat as I’ve always found it to be better at increasing explosiveness and vertical leap.

24

[quote]sundanceskiteam wrote:
I’m helping train my younger brother who is trying to land a D1 scholarship in football… I’m novice to this, so I’m seeing if others would do anything different

Currently, he’s 6’1, 184 lb sophomore who played well for a good HS program as a safety and is on the recruiting radar of a lot of schools… He needs to get prepared for a Nike Camp, Underarmour camp, and various college camps this summer prior to having a good junior year.

These are his stats:

squat: 375 (up from 275 last November)
deadlift: 365
bench: 235
clean: 215
forty: electric timed 4.66 - 4.75
vertical: 29
broad: 8’9
shuttle: 4.32
pullups: 18
dips: 24

His current workout stuff is taken from Defranco, EFS, and articles from T-Nation.

Mond: spring football practice, then ME Upper
Tuesd: spring practice, ME Lower
Wed: off
Thurs: spring practice, DE Upper
Friday: plyometics, sled, sprints
Saturday: overspeed, plyometics, DE Lower

Are there any discrepancies that he should focus on (lack of strength, jumping) or just keep plugging away?

thanks[/quote]

Well for a sophmore those are some nice numbers however understand one thing because im going through the walk-on process right now, yes having a fast 40 helps, yes having a 40 inch vert helps , and be athletic etc etc etc what colleges are looking for are Football players remember you have people who play football and football players so their gonna be looking alot at his tapes when deciding to recruit or not and having good combine numbers is just icing on the cake + being sick on the grid iron.

If you want to really get serious with a planned workout you can shoot me a pm because its way too long just for posting in a thread basically it goes through a few phases which all football players go through as well as all programs go through or should go through ( any well known college program ive looked at goes through these specific phases) and i can give you some details about that as well if you would like and hopefully set you and your bro in the right direction to hopefully get him to that 4.30 40 or 38 inch vert like I have.

25

[quote]sundanceskiteam wrote:

  1. At what rate do you increase the weight on squats? He was squatting about 275 in November and can do 375 right now (w/ slight help out of the hole)… Do you try and get that up as quickly as possible or do you do it in increments to make sure he has a solid base (let him rep it out in the low 300’s for a couple months)? Also, is it dangerous to go up on weight if he requires more spotter assistance to get it up?
    [/quote]

Squatting isnt a group activity. If he requires assistance to lift it, it is too much weight and it doesnt count.

26

John33: You run a 4.3 40, have a 38 inch vertical and you’re walking on? Where? A D1 school? If you don’t want to say which one specifically I’d be happy with just a conference. Because those numbers are very impressive, and, no offense, pretty hard to believe. I don’t know anything about you, so don’t take it personal, there’s alot of people that can run a 4.3 while they’re typing on their computer, and not many that can actually do it.

27

Tell your brother to work on his ball skills as well. You want to be able to judge the ball. Interceptions rule football.

28

Just finished an NFL combine this past weekend and Speed = biggest part.

Strength is important, but speed is what got all the folks watching. Sure its great if you can squat heavy but they don’t see that at the combine or comps. They look for speed, vert & size, but speed is always first.

Talking with the agents they look at speed, speed and more speed. They look for good ball handling to go with that. The strength is important but its the speed that gets their attention. So what if a guy benches 40 reps, if he can’t run faster than a 5.5 he wont get ppl looking at him.

We had a guy run 4.2-4.3 on his 40’s and every head in the place was watching him when he ran and did drills. No one asked how much he benched…

That said, speed gets you noticed, skill keeps the interest, strength seals the deal… gota have all 3 but from my experience thats the order of em…

29

[quote]John33 wrote:
yes having a fast 40 helps, yes having a 40 inch vert helps , and be athletic etc etc etc what colleges are looking for are Football players remember you have people who play football and football players so their gonna be looking alot at his tapes when deciding to recruit or not and having good combine numbers is just icing on the cake + being sick on the grid iron. [/quote]

Ding ding ding. we have a winner.

30

4.3 and 38 inch vertical. HAHAHAHA. We have the next reggie bush on here.

31

[quote]sundanceskiteam wrote:
I’m helping train my younger brother who is trying to land a D1 scholarship in football… I’m novice to this, so I’m seeing if others would do anything different

Currently, he’s 6’1, 184 lb sophomore who played well for a good HS program as a safety and is on the recruiting radar of a lot of schools… He needs to get prepared for a Nike Camp, Underarmour camp, and various college camps this summer prior to having a good junior year.

These are his stats:

squat: 375 (up from 275 last November)
deadlift: 365
bench: 235
clean: 215
forty: electric timed 4.66 - 4.75
vertical: 29
broad: 8’9
shuttle: 4.32
pullups: 18
dips: 24

His current workout stuff is taken from Defranco, EFS, and articles from T-Nation.

Mond: spring football practice, then ME Upper
Tuesd: spring practice, ME Lower
Wed: off
Thurs: spring practice, DE Upper
Friday: plyometics, sled, sprints
Saturday: overspeed, plyometics, DE Lower

Are there any discrepancies that he should focus on (lack of strength, jumping) or just keep plugging away?

thanks…[/quote]

Tell him to get that clean up by the way. You want him to be knocking helmets off right ?

32

just because you run a 4.3 doesnt mean ur the nest reggie bush. just look at the kid from chadron state who went to the draft he ran a 4.3 and im pretty sure his vert was up there. the problem was he was 5’6 or 5’7 i dont remeber but he didnt even get drafted

33

hey man your brother is in good shape. those numbers are above average for a 10th grader. in the end the most important thing is his football ability. If he has a good film that will outweigh any 40 time or squat max. just tell him to keep up the good work, practice hard, eat healthy, keep lifting and everything will work out well.

34

The volume looks a bit high considering he’s practicing too- make sure he’s eating enough calories.

I agree w/Oldfart’s sentiments about speed being the deal maker/breaker.

Your brother needs to get a lot faster if he wants to play defensive back at high D1 level.

Keep us posted on his progress.

Kudos to the advice given so far- I wish this place was around when I played football.

35

[quote]heavyhitter70 wrote:
just because you run a 4.3 doesnt mean ur the nest reggie bush. just look at the kid from chadron state who went to the draft he ran a 4.3 and im pretty sure his vert was up there. the problem was he was 5’6 or 5’7 i dont remeber but he didnt even get drafted [/quote]

Anyone who has a 4.3 and a 36+ vertical and dosen’t go pro in a sport is a waste of talent.

36

[quote]sundanceskiteam wrote:
I’m helping train my younger brother who is trying to land a D1 scholarship in football… I’m novice to this, so I’m seeing if others would do anything different

Currently, he’s 6’1, 184 lb sophomore who played well for a good HS program as a safety and is on the recruiting radar of a lot of schools… He needs to get prepared for a Nike Camp, Underarmour camp, and various college camps this summer prior to having a good junior year.

These are his stats:

squat: 375 (up from 275 last November)
deadlift: 365
bench: 235
clean: 215
forty: electric timed 4.66 - 4.75
vertical: 29
broad: 8’9
shuttle: 4.32
pullups: 18
dips: 24

His current workout stuff is taken from Defranco, EFS, and articles from T-Nation.

Mond: spring football practice, then ME Upper
Tuesd: spring practice, ME Lower
Wed: off
Thurs: spring practice, DE Upper
Friday: plyometics, sled, sprints
Saturday: overspeed, plyometics, DE Lower

Are there any discrepancies that he should focus on (lack of strength, jumping) or just keep plugging away?

thanks…[/quote]

What is your brothers BF%?

37

Thanks for all advice so far. We’ll tone down the volume and will definitely decrease the weight on the sled sprints. To answer some questions from posters:

  • I have not measured his %BF, though I would imagine it’s fairly low (he’s pretty cut and has a six pack for what thats worth). He eats well (protein every 3 hrs and doesn’t eat a lot of sugary food). We’re trying to gain 2-3 lbs a month with a goal to be about 190 lbs prior to his junior season (then maybe a lean 200 lbs prior to his senior year.

  • He has good game film and works 3x a week on football skills. He started all 13 games as a sophomore for the top program in Utah (I know Utah isn’t Florida, California, or Texas :)). His team has a handful of national recruits (2 players rated in rivals top 300 and 5-6 w/ standing D1 offers), so they have a lot of colleges visiting during the May evaluation period. Last week, coaches from LSU, UCLA, Colorado, and BYU attended practices and all of them took time to talk w/ my brother, say he’s doing well and he’s on their radar screen and invited him to their summer camp.

Thanks again for all the advice and we appreciate anything people have to add and will implement their opinions into the training program. Will also update w/ how he does at the upcoming combine/camp season.

38

I would recommend incorporating single leg exercises into his workouts, such as single leg squats, step ups, front/side lunges, etc. I started doing this my junior year of high school and found that it helped my lower body development and improved my squatting strength.

I read an interview with a USC strength coach in a stack magazine couple years ago. Regarding lower body development and speed, He pretty much said you are as fast as your weakest link, so if one leg is weaker, your speed times are going to reflect that of your weaker leg.
In doing regular squats, if one side is weaker, a person can compensate with the other leg and in technique.
His recommendation was to add single leg exercises into your workouts.

Good luck with the training and camps.

39

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Affliction wrote:

Look man, I’m a former DI/DI-AA (transfer) football player. I’ve benched 475 and squatted 600. It wasn’t until near the end of my career that I figured out that weight room numbers do not equate to on-field performance. To my detriment. I’m trying to save him from my mistakes.

At this kid’s bodyweight, he should stop at 405, if not right now, for his max squat as one of his main points of emphasis. Yes, he should do maintenance work to keep his strength, and it will still improve gradually. But he should be sprinting 2x/week and working on sprint technique on the other days. I know what you’re saying, but let’s not misguide him. No one has ever said “squat kills” with regards to football. I believe the saying is “SPEED kills”. Especially as a safety. And with his 40 time, it is clear that max strength is certainly not the limiting factor here.

To the OP, don’t get me wrong. I’m not advocating that your brother drops his weightlifting endeavors. But encourage him to remember that he is first and foremost a football player. Weightlifting is only ONE of many activities he should engage in to increase his readiness on the football field. Feel free to ask more questions.

And I’m a current D1 lacrosse player, not necessarily the same as football but speed in my opinion is even a bigger issue with lacrosse then football, so believe me I’m not disagreeing with you in that sense. I truly do believe in the fact that speed kills.

To me it just seems like he doesn’t have the strength basis to really get the full benefit of plyos, which would be the quickest way to more speed. At his current strength levels I’d argue that he stands to be at higher risk for injury then if he could have a better foundation. Just my personal opinion there.[/quote]

Doesn’t have the strength basis for plyos? He’s a sophomore in HS! What’s that, 15 or 16 years old? His numbers are excellent (lower body-wise) for a kid that age and size. Not singling you out, but come on.

Again, what? His speed is definitly lacking? If he’s running a legit 4.66-4.75 range, which we can assume he is b/c the OP says it was laser-timed, then he’s in great shape. Every HS kid who says they run a 4.5 find out real quick they’re only running a 4.7 when they get to a college program and get a “real” time. I think you’re forgetting he’s only a sophomore. He will get faster-stronger/bigger all at once. He’s in the golden years for training.

[quote]I am not suggesting he forgo other opportunities to increase his skill, speed, agility, etc. for pure weight lifting gains, but I do believe that he still will have good gains from increasing his overall strength/size for the safety position. He isn’t close to diminishing returns in my opinion.

That is why I suggest still focusing on the strength aspect because at his current levels he can start doing basic plyos/speed work without running a risk of injuring himself, doing this at the same time as increasing his strenght.
[/quote]

Affliction is spot on: speed and quickness need to be the focus. The only thing I’ll disagree with is reverting to maintenance lifting for lower body. No reason he can’t get faster AND stronger (and will), but the emphasis should be squarely on speed training.

40

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
sundanceskiteam wrote:
He is doing speed work 2x a week.

Does sled sprints one day a week (w/ 45 lb plate) and hill sprints, then does one day of overspeed combined w/ normal sprints of 10, 20, 40, 60 yard sprints. Then has one day of plyometrics and agility drills.

He also has 3 days of spring practice where they do DB drills and one on ones for about 1 hr.

As a safety is he doing sleed sprints in a forward motion as well as a reverse motion? Kind of makes sense to be doing it reverse as well since safety’s and other DB’s tend to be back pedaling a good amount.

Also I’d agree with affliction in regards to not be doing a ton of heavy weight for sleed pulling as it can definitely effect running mechanics. That doesn’t mean he can’t do some heavy sled pulling, but I wouldn’t allow the heavy stuff to be more then the light stuff.

One last point, in regards to the squat in general. Although I feel as though he could stand for more strength there, do not do so at the detriment of other things. If he is lifting heavy for squat then chances are that that may effect increases in other speed/agility which are more important priority at this point. If anything I’d say make the clean a priority over squat as I’ve always found it to be better at increasing explosiveness and vertical leap.
[/quote]

You got it there. Good advice, I just had to keep reading, apparently.