Pharm clomid is on the way. Ordered that when I got my bloods back and saw the lh was still low and assumed the stuff I had was bunk.
And I did not use hcg while on cycle. I freely admit I’m an idiot for that, but got some bad advice from a couple guys at the gym about it being unnecessary amd wouldnt help.
Thanks for all the help guys. I ordered some hmg, hcg and pharm clomid so I’ll start as soon as it’s all in.
Same old shit with bro-science clomid doses.
See the HPTA restart link found here: About the T Replacement Category - #2 by KSman
And more links: About the Pharma / TRT category - #2 by KSman
same old shit that’s been proven to work a million times
It is still not the right way to do things. You criteria of success is that no one died. There are restart failures and there are good reasons to suspect the methods.
uh, no, my criteria of success is that it’s frequently used successfully
Yogi, KSman has a solid point in his argument. Maybe the way he’s putting it is problem for you but the thing is PCT practices like usage of multiple SERM’s, taking large doses of SERM etc are really the examples of bullshit broscience. Low dose SERM’s are actually the way to go and Igs’s recovery thread is a case in point. And I believe that taking big doses of clomid is responsible for giving it a bad rep, as well as cases of failed recovery and HPTA brittleness.
And this is, whether people are willing to admit it or not, the standard of advice given by anyone in these forums without a medical degree AND formal training in endocrinology. It’s the best we have to give. People intending to fuck with their hormones without medical supervision had better understand this.
?
Yogi didn’t recommend taking multiple SERMS. Clomid at 50mg/day isn’t unreasonable for someone shutdown for so long without the use of HCG.
Maybe he should have suggested using a SERM on cycle.
Yeah I agree that 50mg/day dose is not very unreasonable, and it’s been used in a couple long term studies on clomid successfully. Cycobushmaster had also posted the links to them in his clomid whirl thread if I remember correctly, and also most of those studies used the 25 mg ed or 50 mg eod dose of clomid. Please correct me if I’m wrong, doesn’t the length of PCT more important when trying to restart after prolonged shutdown, and if it’s so doesn’t tapering down of SERM towards the end of PCT beneficial especially if starting it at the high end SERM dose.
Oh, and my comment wasn’t on Yogi’s recommendation, I love Yogi too. 
no offence taken, I have no problem debating this stuff.
But the fact is that the 50mg of clomid/daily has worked for a really long time, and so I will continue to recommend it.[quote=“jasper41, post:26, topic:216917”]
Low dose SERM’s are actually the way to go
[/quote]
Are we absolutely sure about this? We’ve seen some evidence to suggest it, but certainly not enough to make it a blanket suggestion
Honestly man, I don’t know. I do think tapering should be done although, in theory, the half-life of SERMS would make it redundant.
Yogi, it is also a fact that 25mg dose had also worked as well in long term set up.
Absolutely?.. No, not at all. But based on the evidence provided by a few studies, empirical evidence from some lab based threads in T Replacement forums and my own little experience with SERM’s, I am myself pretty sure about the efficacy of low dose SERM’s. I’m definitely not proposing some blanket suggestion, nor I’m qualified enough to do so, but it makes sense when we apply deductive reasoning to it.
A period of 4-6 weeks for PCT, even at a slightly higher dosing is just not long enough to do any permanent damage. A nice taper takes care of the drastic drop. Even if you don’t taper, as DT79 said, the half life of SERM will taper you out.
Now, if you are overdosing SERM for an extended time and keeping your LH/FSH above range constantly then yes. Some desensitization is probably bound to happen.
Best thing you can do is get bloodwork. If your LH is in proper range, arguing over 25mg vs 50mg is pointless.
yeah mate, I totally understand your reasoning, and I’ve seen the studies that show low dose may be the way to go, but I’ve certainly not seen any evidence that the 50mg is harmful.
This. And in my mind - which others may not agree with - the fact that it has been the go-to dose for PCT for so long because it does work, means why fuck with it?
Another quick question while you are all in here, would GH help? I have read a few studies that show when it converts to IGF it helps protect and restore HPTA activity
Yes, from what I’ve read, GH will help bolster HPTA recovery.
Testosterone in turn also helps the pulsation of endogenous GH.
Test and GH are synergistic.
Thanks. I have a pretty decent connection for that so I’ll get some
100% agree. Tracking your hormones with blood work is the absolutely best thing to do in such situations. It’ll be far easier for one to find the right dosage and duration of PCT when keeping track of the blood work.
But still I’d like to state my opinion that if one is unaware of his body response to SERM’s especially in cases like OP where clearly an extended period of PCT is required, it’ll be better to err on the low side as many users who take high doses of SERM’s frequently report the estrogenic side effects from it. Also if low dose can bring your LH/FSH in proper range then why take more than necessary and risk desensitization & the resultant compromised recovery.
Just to be clear, 50 mg of clomid is not the high dose that can lead to detrimental consequences, On the contrary its been shown to be effective during the 12 week SERM therapy without any serious adverse reactions.
Blood work still lies supreme, and will ultimately determine what dose is exactly appropriate to achieve favorable hormonal response while mitigating any side effects.