Advanced GH/Gear Cycle Critique Please

Pharma
1

I appreciate your time critiquing my cycle;

Stats: 29 yrs old, 200lbs,5’11, 10% BF, experienced lifter, John Berardi massive eating diet.

Cycle Goals: Lean Mass gains. Muniscus knee fray recovery with GH (explains long duration)

Gear, etc: GH China Blue Tops, Glucophage 850mg tabs, T4, Clenbuterol, Test E, Deca, Equipoise, Winny 50mg tabs

Ancillaries: Liquid Adex, Nolvadex, Clomid, HCG necessary?

Cycle Duration: I plan on staying on the GH for 8 months at 3-4 ius per day split injections. Still confused as to when to inject. Early morning, late afternoon during GH downturn? For gear, I want to go 10 on 5 off for 3-4 cycles. Suggestions? Longer?

Cycle dosage: Test E 500wk/ last week of prop at same dose, Deca 400wk for 1st 5 weeks then EQ at same dose due to shorter half life, 50 mg/ED Winny split dosage(using milk thistle and LIV 52 for liver toxicity and a gallon of water daily, 3-4ius of GH split dose, 850 mg Glucophage 2XD with carb meals, T4 L-Thyroxin 200mcg daily(need input on this dosage as well as recommended taper please) Clen at 100mcg daily tapered on/ Benadryl every 3rd week at 100mg before bed to keep receptors sensitive. .25mg Adex daily for aromatase control. Nolvadex 10mg daily if sensitive to aromatization?

Ancillaries/recovery: Nolvadex at 30mg daily for 30 days, Clomid 50-100mg daily for 30-45 days. Clen at same dosage due to its anti catabolic properties. Anthony Roberts recommends Clomid for Thyroid recovery at 100mg daily for 30-60 days. Blood work after 60 days for Test, Estrogen, Thyroid levels.

Questions: Please critique and recommend other drugs, I respect every opinion on this great site. GH taper on dose schedule? Should I go 2 wks T4/clen then ECA for two weeks or stay consistent with T4/clen? Benadryl for receptors or other suggestion? I need T4 since Thyroid production is hindered by GH but not sure if it will quickly rebound. I am worried about Winny at 50 mg daily as far as liver toxicity but I need it to help GH with IGF 1 production from oral. Possibly 25mg on off days? Opinions? Thanks!

3

Many people don’t feel HCG is worth the effort, and recover without much losing much weight (other than water).
You mention ECA. Would you be taking that in addition to clen? Do you think that would be better than just increasing your dose of clen?

4

OK… a few points first;

Undeclynate (Eq) is a longer ester than Decanoate (Nandrolone).

5 Weeks off will likely NOT be enough to recover from all the cycles… I suspect if you are relatively ‘normal’ you will recover the first time, but not the others. Maybe 6-8 weeks cycles with 6-8 weeks off would be better. You would frontload of course and it could give you 2x6week cycles with 6 weeks off inbetween and finish on an 8 week cycle… then with a lot longer off.

The Prop to finish a cycle is a good idea, and will allow recovery to be quicker - however the use of the Decanoate ester with Nandrolone WILL hamper recovery to the point where it will simply take a little longer than it should. If Nandrolone is being used so regularly over this period, i would seriously recommend Cabergoline - Caber will stop the further suppression Prolactin has on the HPTA, increase sex drive during and post cycle and help recovery too. I would most definitely opt for trenbolone instead, at a dose between 280mg and 350mg it is side effect free for many, it has the opposite effect on sex drive than deca, and it is quickly in and out of the body.
Its body composition effects will also be a dream with the GH.

I would use a higher dose of GH for a shorter time personally, and inject that IV - as per BBB’s protocol, for more hypertrophy/plasia effects.
I would also - when planning a cycle such as this - be using GH, slin and AAS all together for the maximum benefits. That is my preferance, and if money was so little of a concern for a plan such as this - then i would go all out.

Be advised that Glucophage is liver toxic too… and i would not consider running Winstrol for longer than 6 weeks - are you thinking of 10wks winstrol? Winny is a fairly mild anabolic, and used in conjunction with deca/test etc… its effects are not likely to be very noticeable. To risk liver health for a drug that is so ‘crap’ (IMO) is not the best idea.
I would personally NOT run winstrol, and use Dbol for its IGF effects with GH. It will give a hell of a lot more to the test/deca stack.
Tren added to some of the cycles in replacement of the deca will keep quality really high too, and change it up some.

I am not too hot on my peptides, simply as i dont use them as of yet - however, i seem to recall that IGF-1 L-R3 is excellent when used with GH, but is not to be used with slin. If that is the case, then i would cycle the use of the two with the GH throughout… with slin being used primarily on AAS cycles, and the IGF being used during the ‘off’ periods. This may not be the best or even the correct dosing protocol for these peptides, so dont take my word on that.

200mcg T4 - I will leave the dosing for someone else who has used the drug, but i am pretty sure i remember this being equivalent to 50mg T3.
I would not stack clen and T4 unless i - 1) Had used both in abundance, 2) was going to compete at some sort of high level or some high level modelling and 3) knew how to dose them each prior to use.
As for ECA and clen, i suspect that they work via similar pathways so when cycled intermittantly they still cause the same receptor desensitivity. Benadryl would be advised however with either. I would have thought however, that for a cycle such as this - that one would choose to use T4/T3, and would know the full protocol for the safe use of it.
I hope you are not trying to run before you can walk… bear in mind our stats are the same except i am 3 inches shorter than you - and i dont consider myself in need of such a cycle regime. That said, i’d be lying if something along similar lines would not be tempting! (I would not use Thyroid meds mind you).

OK - recovery. I assume this is each recovery between each cycle of AAS? I would be using HCG throughout intermittantly (250iu E3D or so during cycles), I would also recommend cabergoline for the deca - it will really help.
A SERM PCT will be sufficient for 6-8 week cycles, choose either clomid or nolva - if the clomid/thyroid fact is true… then that may make sense to use - two birds, one stone etc…
I do know that there are a number of supplements that one would want to use for thyroid recovery - i personally would be consulting ‘Testanabol’ on this protocol as he has some good experience in the area.

Your original protocol for the AAS cycling was 10wks on with 5 off… except in your recovery you are suggesting you use Clomid for upto 45 days… this is over 6 weeks and would mean that you would be using a SERM throughout the whole ‘off’ period! This wouldnt be a true off period in that case.

I would be tempted to just use a very low dose of T4 intermittantly to keep thyroid production up - maybe there is a better, more natural way to do it - or maybe it isnt too necessary at all, i really wouldn’t like to say without researching it personally - i dont think that it sounds like you should do the thyroid part of this cycle at this point… i dont know the best protocol as i dont use the drug, and it doesnt seem as though you do either. It is dangerous to fuck with IMO.

I will let someone else more knowledgeable fill in my gaps!

Good luck - fun cycle!

5

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Don’t inject GH ED, or you risk somatostatin release which will dramtically blunt the effect of the GH. It will also stress the pancreas, having to release somatostatin all the time.

Inject double the dose, EOD or triple the dose E3d (best IMO). Make sure you inject intramuscular, so as to mimic the bodys own style of release.

You have generic blue tops. I hope they work out for you. They make me insulin resistant and with a tendancy towards a fatty liver. Even the metformin may not be enough to counter this. I suggest you control your carbs, maybe cycling them on a 3 day rotation. Take fish oil and R-ALA too, to help maintain insulin sensitivity.

BBB[/quote]

"I have another question that I have not been able to fully get a resolute answer to with regards to meal timing and GH injections. I’m leaning more towards a longer, lower dose style of use because my biggest concern is tendon, ligament, and injury repair, and might consider using some of your protocols in the future. So assuming an early morning (4-6am) and early afternoon (or possibly after work at say 6pm) injection of 2iu each, how long before or after injections should I be eating, and do certain nutrients impact the exogenous growth more or less. For example I like to eat, and it’s almost always a relatively small protein/fat meal such as 50g of protein and 5 fish oil capsules, at around 4-6am when I awake to go to the bathroom. This is when I was going to do my first shot of the day. Is it also ok to eat at this time or will it blunt the effects of the GH. Does the type of meal and macros matter, and are there specific macros to avoid around the time of GH injections (say 1 hour before and after, or more importantly at the same time)?

Then when doing my second injection, if I inject at 6pm and I plan to eat a decent sized carb plus protein meal at around 6:30 to 7 with some Glucophage and then go to the gym, will the meal negatively impact the GH, or vice versa, especially considering it will be a slightly high carb meal that is meant to spike insulin. I know that a lot of BBers using GH and insulin do a shot of gh and then one of insulin 1 hour later, so perhaps there isn’t huge worry of overlap and they actually work well together, so I guess the concept of putting a high-carb, insulin inducing meal 45-60 min after a GH injection is pretty much the same and should be ok.

Meal timing is an area where I have struggled to find a lot of good knowledge and thought you might be able to add something to this or just give your thoughts. I know you like GH injections after workouts, so what do you eat after a workout with that? I’m assuming you eat something post workout. Any and all thoughts are appreciated. This is really the last thing I want to nail down before I start, and perhaps I’m overcomplicating it, but I’d rather know as much as I can."

6

[quote]Zinterhauss wrote:
Many people don’t feel HCG is worth the effort, and recover without much losing much weight (other than water).
You mention ECA. Would you be taking that in addition to clen? Do you think that would be better than just increasing your dose of clen? [/quote]

I would be cycling clen T4 3-4 weeks and then coming off to use an ECA stack to allow the receptors to become sensitive again for the clen and the thyroid to rebound from the T4.