Adding 15 lbs to Bench in 6 wks

Training Powerlifting
41

Obviously what works for you works for you…

Although I follow bodybuilding more than powerlifting, doesn’t mean I don’t like getting stronger.

I have videos of Ryan Kennelly, bench moster, and in his videos he has days where he hits 1, 2 ,3 ,4 reps. He doesn’t do it like you, where you pick 90% of your 1 RM and go from there. He pyramids up to one top set with fucking 1000 pounds or whatever, but hits 585, 700, 850, 970 or whatever before hand.

Than he has workout where he concentrates on 4, 5, 6 reps and even benched 405 x 20, obviously for show purposes, but his training is mixed and always sets up for a PR, pyramiding up in weight each set…

Shit Elano would probably be better off using 5/3/1 or something which focues on progression and higher rep days as well a medium and lower rep days. Obviously Wendler knows his stuff.

Konstantine Kinstantinovs has a lot of videos of himself on youtube, truly incredible dude, and he uses 4-8 reps on the majority of his lifts…

Like I said I’ve failed miserably doing what you’re doing and would not suggest anyone doing that, but again do what works.

I love to bench, will soon be joing the 405 club, and still have a lot to learn. So you benching 255, really have no right to be calling people fucking idiots. It makes you look dumb…We all have our opinions, if someone disagrees do it respectfully, it goes much further…

42

[quote]dankid wrote:
Stronghold wrote:

You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. “Most powerlifters and weightlifters” are using volume/load progressions of some sort in their training, not hitting max singles 50 weeks out of the year and hoping to magically get stronger.

That may be, but they probably are still hitting singles, doubles and triples. I mean when was the last time you saw a weightlifter do a set of 10 on clean an jerk?

Westsides DE method is volume, but uses low reps (1,2,3) And there are progressions and cycles here.

Sheiko is a volume method that uses low reps.

Im sorry Bro, I dont care how strong you think you are, or how weak you think I am; YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT, with poor ass reasoning skills.

In a sport like powerlifting or weightlifting where technique is highly important, the number of reps per set should be kept low, regarldess of the volume and intensity.[/quote]

First of all, I never said using lower reps wouldn’t work, I simply disagreed with your (incorrect) premise that you couldn’t be a good powerlifter if you weren’t hitting heavy singles on a regular basis. As far as motor learning, coaching is more important than loading will ever be. Heavy singles with bad form are still heavy singles with bad form.

The olympic lifts don’t exactly lend themselves to higher reps due to the higher technical demand of the lifts.

I don’t think I’m strong at all, but I know for damn sure that I’m stronger than you are and have gotten that way by doing the opposite of what you keep talking about. You’re another Louie Simmons parroting bro banging away furiously at your keyboard while wearing your WSB t-shirt (size medium of course) and cross referencing Supertraining with your Webster’s dictionary.

I do what strong (and smart) people tell me. You scream at the strong people and tell them they’re all wrong. Who’s the idiot again?

43

[quote]dankid wrote:

Ok so most powerlifters and weightlifters are training wrong by doing mainly singles, doubles and triples?[/quote]

Do you think every single powerlifter trains with a Westside template? There are tons of successful powerlifters who do singles only sparingly, if at all. A 200 lb person benching only 210 is incredibly weak, and should not do anything less than a triple. Hell, doing the average fratboy 3 x 10 is probably going to get him more gains than singles.

You don’t need advanced training methods when you’re weak as fuck. I’d be a lot stronger right now if I didn’t make that same mistake.

44

[quote]elano wrote:
Wow, I’m impressed with a lot of the advice and I am really thankful that yall are helping me.
I tried the Dave Tate technique monday and wow did it make a big difference.

The program I have been following for a year is:

-Monday-
5x5 back squat
5x5 bench press
5x5 powerclean or bb row
3x5 dips
3x5 chinups

-Wednesday-
3x3 front squat
3x3 press
3x3 power clean or bb row
5x5 curls
3x20 calf raise

-friday-
1rm, 2rm,3rm OR 5rm on the squat, bench, and deadlift for a single set
Latly I’ve been doind 2rm and 1rm work on this day

There is a really strong guy in my gym who benches in the 300s. I talked with about my situation and he wrote me up a program that looks like this:

-Monday-
4x3 Reverse deadlifts (I don’t know if this is a good idea, he says he has a hunch)
5-4-3-2-1 Bench Press
3x8 Incline dumbell press
3x5 Weighted dips leaning forward

-Wednesday-
5-4-3-2-1 Power cleans with 5 and 4 being warmup sets and 3-2-1 being max effort[/quote]

Why are you doing powercleans? Just wondering Maybe do deadlifts not rack pulls, you will be doing deads in the competition and all and I would put them on a different day than squats like tuesday…

[quote]-Thursday-
3x5 Close grip bench
3x10 Straight bar cable pulldown as heavy as I can go with good form[/quote]

What about dead skulls or a skull crusher of some type of tricep extension. Gotta get those babies strong. Might want to do some shoulder work too, they do help your bench press…Not doing any sort of shoulder press or shoulder work period is pretty dumb in my opinion…I used to be dumb like that, and my lifts suffered…I’m doing a lot better now that I consistently hit shoulders…

[quote]-Friday-
4x3 Squat
2x6 Explosive squat using 1/2 the weight
4x3 Rack pulls from the pins at the knee

What do yall think about this? He said he was going to give me another bench routine in 2 weeks. [/quote]

Like I said earlier maybe, squats on friday, deadlifts on Tuesday or some shit. I’d want to be training deads if I were about to pull in competition and I sure as hell couldn’t pull to the best of my ability after legs…Actually just noticed you said reverse grip deadlifts. How about you pull like you want to pull in the comp…

45

[quote]PublickStews wrote:
dankid wrote:

Ok so most powerlifters and weightlifters are training wrong by doing mainly singles, doubles and triples?

Do you think every single powerlifter trains with a Westside template? There are tons of successful powerlifters who do singles only sparingly, if at all. A 200 lb person benching only 210 is incredibly weak, and should not do anything less than a triple. Hell, doing the average fratboy 3 x 10 is probably going to get him more gains than singles.

You don’t need advanced training methods when you’re weak as fuck. I’d be a lot stronger right now if I didn’t make that same mistake.[/quote]

Given that he only has 6 weeks, and looking at his current workout, I strongly feel that he needs to cut down on the volume (especially on accessory lifts). Whether or not he takes it all the way to singles or maybe 5x3, thats up to him, but the workout he listed has a lot of extra stuff thats probably holding him back.

But its not like adding 15lbs to a 210 bench is 6 weeks should be that hard.

46

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. “Most powerlifters and weightlifters” are using volume/load progressions of some sort in their training, not hitting max singles 50 weeks out of the year and hoping to magically get stronger.[/quote]

This.

5x5 or 5x3 or whatever the OP is using is probably fine. I also think it’s a good idea to do some paused singles like he’ll do in the meet using LIGHT weight. Not retarded light but something he could get 3-5 with and absolutely smoke. Depending on how close the meet is (6 weeks?) this probably isn’t the time to throw in a bunch of HEAVY singles.

47

Do you think every single powerlifter trains with a Westside template? There are tons of successful powerlifters who do singles only sparingly, if at all. A 200 lb person benching only 210 is incredibly weak, and should not do anything less than a triple. Hell, doing the average fratboy 3 x 10 is probably going to get him more gains than singles.

You don’t need advanced training methods when you’re weak as fuck. I’d be a lot stronger right now if I didn’t make that same mistake.[/quote]

I fully agree with this post

48

I do power cleans because it really makes the pull off the floor the easiest part of the lift for deads. The guy who wrote that program for me pulls over 500 and I’ve personally seen him clean 255x5 and 225x10 so he knows how to get strong. The rack pulls are for above the knee work, and it’s not reverse grip deadlifts, it’s reverse meaning the bar is behind you. I think am going to scrap that and just do regular deadlifts though. Like I said, this program was made for me by someone else.

Anyways, It’s wednesday so I guess I’ll go knock out some cleans.

Any more crituque on that program would be great. I only have 6 WEEKS until the meet so I want to focus on strength and technique more than gaining any significant mass in that short of time.

49

[quote]PublickStews wrote:
dankid wrote:

Ok so most powerlifters and weightlifters are training wrong by doing mainly singles, doubles and triples?

Do you think every single powerlifter trains with a Westside template? There are tons of successful powerlifters who do singles only sparingly, if at all. A 200 lb person benching only 210 is incredibly weak, and should not do anything less than a triple. Hell, doing the average fratboy 3 x 10 is probably going to get him more gains than singles.

You don’t need advanced training methods when you’re weak as fuck. I’d be a lot stronger right now if I didn’t make that same mistake.[/quote]

x2

I’m fairly certain Dankid isn’t a powerlifter and doesn’t actually know any competing powerlifters outside of the internet.

50

I hold the moderators responsible for dankid’s trolling, it’s been going on for way too long now, polluting every damn topic. You got to give it to him though, his trolling is so high level that even mods think he’s just a stumbling idiot.

51

Yeah well he’s helped me more in this thread than either of you. I know my bench is weak. I don’t need that pointed out, that’s not why I started the thread.

52

Stick with the guy at your gym.

Hands on coaching is infinitely better than interwebz.

He will be able to troubleshoot and adjust as needed, on the spot.

Don’t over think this.

53

[quote]elano wrote:
Yeah well he’s helped me more in this thread than either of you. I know my bench is weak. I don’t need that pointed out, that’s not why I started the thread.[/quote]

I’m sorry that “find an experienced lifter to fix your form” wasn’t the sexy response you were looking for.

54

[quote]elano wrote:
Yeah well he’s helped me more in this thread than either of you. I know my bench is weak. I don’t need that pointed out, that’s not why I started the thread.[/quote]

OH SNAP!!! Guess who the trolls are now.

OP, I didn’t really start barbell benching until recently, because i previously had a bad shoulder. So I was mainly doing DB floor pressing. I started doing barbell press a few months ago when I got into westside, and went with a close grip and haven’t had any problems since. When I maxed a few months ago, I got 225, which was my old max, but it was still tough. Ive since then gotten my max up to 255. This isn’t great, but for me this was a huge improvement and im happy with it. Im not a powerlifter, and I dont claim to be. Im not built for this sport. But I still train to get stronger, and enjoy the process.

Go ahead and do what the guy at your gym has for you, but dont stick with something if it isn’t working. For me, I always found that if I stalled or started getting weaker, it was because I was doing too much volume. So cutting back or even doing a deload usually leads to some gains. Technique is ALWAYS going to be high priority if you are concerned with getting the most weight up. I dont really understand why people wouldn’t train technique with lower reps, and I dont understand the reasoning behind doing technique work with only lighter weight. Train for the competition based on the needs of the competition. The reasoning of a lot of these guys on here is similar to a sprinter running miles.

It really shouldn’t be that hard for you to achieve your goal. You just have to figure out the path to reaching it. Based on what you’ve been doing, it looks like you are doing a decent amount of volume with a pretty high frequency. There are certain things, like shoulder press, cleans, and curls, etc , that in this short of a time, will probably hold you back. I would either eliminate these, or just cut back on the number of sets. This change alone may get you progressing again. Or you might need to cut down on the number of sets or reps on your bench. It isn’t a bad idea to assess what your weaknesses or sticking points are. Even better would be to get someone more experienced to do so. Some of my weaknesses were off the chest, and the fact that I couldn’t really grind. My maxes would move fast, but if the weight got heavy, I would just give out. Paused benching helped a lot with the first problem, and the heavy singles are teaching me to push harder.

Its really hard to say what you need without actually knowing you, but you are probably either doing too much, or too little. And when it comes to strength it is almost always that you are doing too much.

***Another option would be to reverse program a bit. If you were currently benching something like 175 for 5x5, you’d drop it down to 165 and do the same thing. Focus on technique and add 5lbs per week, and hopefully you’d over-shoot the point where you stalled before. This will work, but I just dont think its the best option for your goals and your time-frame.

Good luck, keep us posted as to what you are doing, and when you hit your goal.

55

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
elano wrote:
Yeah well he’s helped me more in this thread than either of you. I know my bench is weak. I don’t need that pointed out, that’s not why I started the thread.

I’m sorry that “find an experienced lifter to fix your form” wasn’t the sexy response you were looking for.[/quote]

I just re-read your post and see where you wrote that. Thanks. I’ve been working on my technique already and it is definitely improving since I was pretty much just laying on the bench before.

56

[quote]dankid wrote:

OP, I didn’t really start barbell benching until recently, because i previously had a bad shoulder. So I was mainly doing DB floor pressing. I started doing barbell press a few months ago when I got into westside, and went with a close grip and haven’t had any problems since. When I maxed a few months ago, I got 225, which was my old max, but it was still tough. Ive since then gotten my max up to 255. This isn’t great, but for me this was a huge improvement and im happy with it. Im not a powerlifter, and I dont claim to be. Im not built for this sport. But I still train to get stronger, and enjoy the process.

Go ahead and do what the guy at your gym has for you, but dont stick with something if it isn’t working. For me, I always found that if I stalled or started getting weaker, it was because I was doing too much volume. So cutting back or even doing a deload usually leads to some gains. Technique is ALWAYS going to be high priority if you are concerned with getting the most weight up. I dont really understand why people wouldn’t train technique with lower reps, and I dont understand the reasoning behind doing technique work with only lighter weight. Train for the competition based on the needs of the competition. The reasoning of a lot of these guys on here is similar to a sprinter running miles.

It really shouldn’t be that hard for you to achieve your goal. You just have to figure out the path to reaching it. Based on what you’ve been doing, it looks like you are doing a decent amount of volume with a pretty high frequency. There are certain things, like shoulder press, cleans, and curls, etc , that in this short of a time, will probably hold you back. I would either eliminate these, or just cut back on the number of sets. This change alone may get you progressing again. Or you might need to cut down on the number of sets or reps on your bench. It isn’t a bad idea to assess what your weaknesses or sticking points are. Even better would be to get someone more experienced to do so. Some of my weaknesses were off the chest, and the fact that I couldn’t really grind. My maxes would move fast, but if the weight got heavy, I would just give out. Paused benching helped a lot with the first problem, and the heavy singles are teaching me to push harder.

Its really hard to say what you need without actually knowing you, but you are probably either doing too much, or too little. And when it comes to strength it is almost always that you are doing too much.

***Another option would be to reverse program a bit. If you were currently benching something like 175 for 5x5, you’d drop it down to 165 and do the same thing. Focus on technique and add 5lbs per week, and hopefully you’d over-shoot the point where you stalled before. This will work, but I just dont think its the best option for your goals and your time-frame.

Good luck, keep us posted as to what you are doing, and when you hit your goal.[/quote]

Thanks man, you have been VERY helpful. I suspected that the volume was getting to me. The guy at my gym told me the same thing. I’m doing his program now which is less volume and hopefully I will meet my goal or surpass it. I will let ya know.

57

Fuck all the programs you’ve gotten. Work on eating and technique. I guarantee you if you get that down you will get 225 in no time. Spread your hands out to a maximum of 81 cm or 2’6". Get all the weight on your traps upper back. Keep your lats tight. Take a deep breath. Tuck your elbows on the descend. Don’t just try to bring the bar to your chest, really try to bring your chest up to the bar. Try to hit right under your nipples or on your sternum. Make sure your wrist aren’t folded back and are locked and upright. Try to keep your elbows tucked and only flare out if you have to when bringing it back up. While you’re pushing up also push your body away. Try to use leg drive when pushing up as well. The shortest distance between two objects is… don’t push back, push straight up.

Your program you had looked stupid. To much shit honestly. Recalculate your maxs kinda like 5/3/1 but instead use 1RMx.95 of a beltless max… Use that in these equations on Bench/Squat/Deadlift/OHP work… on main accessory Incline/Front Squat/SLDL/POwercleans use 1rm x .875%

M- SQuat: 75%x4, 80%x4, 85%x5, 80%x4, 80%x4… Front Squat 65%x5, 75%x5,85x10
T- Bench: Incline work (Same percentage as above

F: Deadlift: SLDL Same percentages

S: Push Press: Power cleans Same as above

You can add 2 more accessory. Preferably one that will help with that lift that day and then a core exercise.

Each week drop 1 rep from each set, however go up in percentage by 5% (so last week started at 75%,80%,85%,80%,80% … do 80%/85%/90%/85%/85%)… continue this for a total of 3 weeks and on the 4th week add the belt and max or deload

58

[quote]elano wrote:
Yeah well he’s helped me more in this thread than either of you. I know my bench is weak. I don’t need that pointed out, that’s not why I started the thread.[/quote]

Are you kidding? You think he helped you?

59

elano

Sorry I did not read through all of the posts due to a lot of the back and forth arguing, but I just wanted to let you know that I have a 225 bench, and on my “5” day of 5/3/1, I hit 175x9 (to failure). I know everyone is different in terms of reps vs maxes, but I don’t know if that helps you gauge where you are at.

60

[quote]dankid wrote:

Given that he only has 6 weeks, and looking at his current workout, I strongly feel that he needs to cut down on the volume (especially on accessory lifts). Whether or not he takes it all the way to singles or maybe 5x3, thats up to him, but the workout he listed has a lot of extra stuff thats probably holding him back.

But its not like adding 15lbs to a 210 bench is 6 weeks should be that hard.[/quote]

Wait, so you strongly feel that he needs to cut down on his volume (especially on accessory lifts), but that he doesn’t need to taper for the meet?

Why would he need to cut back on his volume in order to make progress in his training, but not need to do the same thing leading up to the meet? That doesn’t make a drop of sense.