I need some help from the experts. I’ve been on TRT for 2 years now with pretty good success. My normal dose through my clinic is 140mg/wk (split twice70mg twice per week) with .1mg arimadex / 300mg DIM / 60mg progesterone capsulated and taken 4x per week spread out. This regimen usually had me on the high side of test with normal results for everything else. I tend to shoot high because I always have high SHBG. I also take 800mg HCG weekly.
Labs 12/06/17 on protocol above
Tot Test 1440 264-916 ng/dl
Free Test 32.2 8.7-25.1 pg/dl
DHT 84 30-85 ng/dl
Estradiol 24.5 7.6-42.6 pg/ml
Estrone 50 12-72 pg/ml
In May, I spoke to my clinic and decided to add Nandrolone to my protocol. They recommended I drop my test to 80mg/wk and start Nandrolone at 150mg/wk. I continued with my AI dose from above. Things were going well for about 4-5 weeks and then the side effects started to kick in. I started having difficulty getting erections and maintaining them. Also, my anxiety and emotional sensitivity has gone way up. I stopped after this 5 week period and resumed my old protocol listed above. It’s been about 3 weeks since stopping Nandrolone with persistent ED problems and remaining anxiety. I ran bloods below and they are all over the place.
Labs 6/27/18 after 2 weeks discontinuing Nandrolone and resuming prior protocol.
Tot Test >1500 264-916 ng/dl
Free Test 28.5 8.7-25.1 pg/dl
DHT 100 30-85 ng/dl
Cortisol 12.9 6.2-19.4 ug/dl
Prolactin 2.4 4.0-15.2 ng/ml
Estradiol <5.0 7.6-42.6 pg/ml
Estrone 82 12-72 pg/ml
SHBG 51 16.5-55.9 nmol/l
My theory is the E2 is so low that it is causing the ED and anxiety issues. I’m just confused as to why its that low when my test is so high even with an AI. Also, I’m confused as to why my Estrone is so high when my E2 is so low. I’m not sure if the low prolactin as any sides or is to be worried about.
I think I am going to lower my dose of test to 120mg/week and drop the AI capsules all together for now. I am a little worried I will rebound to the high side of E2 but I can retest in a few weeks. Does anybody know how long it takes to feel the E2 recovery? Does my theory on E2 being the problem sound correct?
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ABSOLUTELY!!! Your Estrogen is way to low!!!
I wouldnt even lower the test dose. Your ai is microdosed anyways isnt it? Drop ai and let it rebound and retest. You need estrogen or your gonna be in the third ring of hell.
Your SHBG is high, which always inflates TT. You went from 80mg of test a week and continued the same AI protocol, then switched back to the old amount of test.
You basically crashed your E2 by not adjusting your AI dose when you went to 80 a week. That’s exactly what happened.
E2 can take a LONG time to recover, it depends on how long its been low I think also.
If you stop fucking with it. youll start to feel better in days, then in about a week or so, things will feel much better. But I would say, 2-3 weeks for full recovery from tanking your e2. (speaking from experience)
Injecting more test will help it along the way.
You shouldn’t be the slightest worried about what a little high E2 will do to you right now. Low e2 is 10x worse than high.
Also, what business do you have taking an AI with a SHBG that high? You should shoot for minimal amount of test needed to get your Free test in range , without E2 sides. Should be possible without an AI, or e2 control… That stuff is last resort. FOR THIS EXACT REASON!
Hope you feel better soon.
That is what DIM does. E2 gets changed into E1/E3 .
You should…
- Put the AI aside for now. (or forever in my opinion)
- Increase your Test dose by a slight amount, until you start to feel higher E2 symptoms
(scary, I know, but trust me, you will feel better much faster, and you are not going to grow tits overnight)
- When you start having a few of the mild, but tell tale symptoms (itchy nipples is really the #1 indicator) back off the test to an appropriate amount.
The next part takes a little finessing, but its totally do-able.
Your SHBG is close to what mine is. You should try injecting 100mg a week. 50mg twice a week, NO ai. See what happens. If you feel good, but have some slight e2 symptoms like acne, and limp dick, you can back off a little. If you don’t feel much, you can slowly increase until you feel good.
Did you ever have a protocol without E2 blockers? TRT started working for me when I stopped fucking with my e2.
Thank you for all the comments and help. I was thinking the same thing about my E2 being the problem and that I probably crashed it for a over a month. I’m assuming it may take that long or more to recover.
I’ve only tried no AI once. I crashed my E2 when I first started TRT as I was on double this dose of AI. I then tried no AI and developed mild gyno. We then added the AI back in at half way (what I am on in my above post) and my E2 stabilized in the low 20s.
I don’t know why I was in the 20s before and now I am below measurable on the same darn protocol.
Bro. Because you kept the same AI protocol, but lowered your test to 80 mg a week from 140…
You almost halved your test dose, and kept the AI the same. That’s why you tanked it, and it cant recover, because you are still taking the AI.
Right I understand that and agree 100%. But when I took the tests I had been back on the higher 140mg/wk for two weeks. I figured my blood levels should have risen back to the mid ranges that’s all. I thought that the blood levels changed pretty quickly with the physiological taking much longer to catch up.
Not with crashed E2. takes a LONG time to build back up.