I am reading about theories of the body for my dissertation. In a particularly well-respected review chapter, I came across this phrase about male body building:
“Grosz argues that male body building can be read as an attempt to render the whole body into the phallus” (pp. 34-35 in Social geographies by Gill Valentine, 2001)
The following paragraph uses a few studies to describes male body building as an “narcissistic act” full of anxiety about their own and other male bodies and their lost “sexual capital” by getting to big to be found attractive, and thus laughable, by women. Also, apparently men worry about looking fat in clothes.
While I will grant that some of these issues exist within body building (which I consider any intentional alterations to the body through the lifting/moving of heavy objects, i.e. to build the body) it seems a rather shallow analysis. But before I spend the next months preparing a response I wanted to turn to y’all about your opinion about this academic treatment.
Are their comments about body building correct? And if so, are they the main characteristics and motivation for body building?
Depends how you define bodybuilding. Most people who lift weights to improve their appearance are doing the act of bodybuilding yet make so little progress and put in so little effort that they could hardly be described as bodybuilders.
Hence, you could argue that as they make little progress they lose no “sexual capital” by becoming “over muscled” despite “being bodybuilders”.
On the other hand, if you look at the motivation of the dedicated bodybuilders who actually improve themselves a lot, (pros, other amateurs and whatnot) then I would argue that those individuals do not put that immense effort in in order to get bigger to be found attractive. Instead they have more of a personal motivation - maybe to see how big they can get simply because it shows immense discipline and effort.
Also worth bearing in mind, is the confidence that an individual may gain from making a big personal improvement through bodybuilding. This confidence would have far more bearing on the “sexual capital” of the person in question rather than simply the improvement of their physique.
I think the review chapter appears to be a gross generalisation that does not properly define bodybuilding, and does not examine the types of personalities that are involved.
More pop-psychology bullshit. Here’s my dissertation, Professor Grosz is a pasty little twerp who reflexively tries to explain bodybuilding as a way of gaining power over people who are physically superior to himself.
It’s human nature to want to simplify everything down to one big all encompassing theory, it gives you power over the random dangerous universe. But that’s just a disease of the human brain. Life outside of the ivory tower is actually pretty big and complicated, and is more than happy to demolish any theories or ideologies that try to tame it.
It’s shallow but part of it is accurate. I want to be big and scary so as not to be a target. I am mostly benevolent but I feel I must show those who would do me and mine harm, that they are fucking with the wrong phallus. Is it psychologically fucked up? Maybe it is, but the fact is that the weak become the prey of the strong in this world. I don’t intend to be some sort of predator but I sure as fuck don’t intend to be anyone’s prey.
Does that make me somewhat frightened of the world? Yes, but with good reason IMO. I’ve traveled all over the world and been fucked with and robbed etc… I intend to make anyone think three times before trying to make me a victim. I want to intimidate everyone. I want to keep everyone away from me.
I’m a big baby. Oh well, maybe I’ll get counseling when I retire and my sons take over the job of scaring everyone…
I disagree. Sure at first your attempts to get bigger are shallow. But after getting into the life style for a while. Its not about the women or being scarey. Its about letting go of day to day stress. I find I am a much happier person for a few days after a good session. My outlook on life is different, my opinions are more positive. It does great things for me and my state of mind.
When I noticed this happening I found a real motivator to keep it up. So for me the iron gives me my time to feel better not about my body but my whole being. Little nerds sitting at a desk would never understand this. Only your fellow iron movers would. This is why some stupid book would never be accurate at describing bodybuilding or powerlifting for that matter.
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
It’s shallow but part of it is accurate. I want to be big and scary so as not to be a target. I am mostly benevolent but I feel I must show those who would do me and mine harm, that they are fucking with the wrong phallus. Is it psychologically fucked up? Maybe it is, but the fact is that the weak become the prey of the strong in this world. I don’t intend to be some sort of predator but I sure as fuck don’t intend to be anyone’s prey.
[/quote]
I agree with you that people are much less likely to associate acts of kindness with weakness when you are large enough to kill them with your bare hands. I don’t think that has much to do with penises.
Another flaw I just noticed in the Professor’s theory is when he says that getting bigger is “laughable” to women. That may be true in a few extreme cases, but who here hasn’t gotten more positive attention from women after they started training?
The professor needs to spend more time observing and less time trying to explain.
This reminds me of the fat Aikido master, who says all UFC fighters are a bunch of untrained roid head hooligans, only about a billion times more offensive.
There is sometruth about trying to turn yourself into a walking penis, anyone who lifts and doesn’t begin to exude macho, is more mentally flawed than the bigorexic guys.
As far as getting “so big” that “you are unattractive.” That is non-sense, I’ve been around a lot of guys who lifted, none of them have approached that except one guy who I would say is “bigorexic.” I think alot of pepole don’t even realize how hard it is just to make respectable progress in lifting, save, get “so huge you’re no longer aesthetically pleasing.” It is very difficult to become like that, even with steroids, people don’t realize this, they think you take creatine and SWELL. Not so, actually it’s fucking bothersome that they even think that, it totally devalues efforts.
I think the one thing lifting has given me is, despite not having transformed myself drastically, I walk like I deserve to be a man.
People tell me I’ve gotten HUGE when I haven’t gotten that much bigger, at least in my mind, but I think it is, my posture and my respect for myself that rubs off.
I’m suprised the good doctor didn’t see that aspect of it.
Grosz sounds like a psychoanalytical hack. Spend some time on the forums and formulate your own opinions. A lot of people aren’t so great at explicitly saying why they do certain things, but by seeing them talking about those things, their reasons become obvious to the observer.
[quote]thomas.galvin wrote:
I would argue that male bodybuilding can be read as an attempt to insert the phallus into the vagina.[/quote]
Good one.
I would say that bodybuilders fall into two categories, the 1% that compete and the 99% that don’t. I would say that in the 1% that compete there is a high percentage with serious issues. Some do it because of their competitive nature and other do it because they are trying to overcome feelings of inadequacy or other things.
The 99% that don’t compete represent pretty much 99% of all males. Every guy I know does something, either lifting weights or some other form of physical activity, to build their body with the ideal goal of looking like Matthew Mcconaughey.
Saying that bodybuilders are trying to turn their entire body into a phallus is actually pretty accurate, who wouldn’t want to be the biggest most dominant dick walking around.
Saying that bodybuilders are trying to turn their entire body into a phallus is actually pretty accurate, who wouldn’t want to be the biggest most dominant dick walking around.[/quote]
I couldn’t agree more. It seems this point, maybe the only accurate one from the article cited, has gone over a few heads. Nobody fucks with Mr. Bigdick except the cadre of ladies at his beck and call. That should be me. See?
While I think the phallus part is a little over the top he’s got some truth in there. People who get serious about bodybuilder in my opinion are either A) former athletes/athletic type who like to challenge themselves physically or B) insecure people who need something to create a sense of dominance and importance
Well, vascularity is usually a big goal for Bodybuilders when contest time roles around.
And I’m no professional, but I’m under the impression that dicks tend to be pretty vascular.
I remember one of my pothead friends was pretty dedicated to taking his morning multivitamin. Before he’d leave his room (usually not before 2pm) he’d take it. I asked him why he cared so much about his health that he wasted money on Vitamins but he’d never go to the gym. I remember he a response pretty much in the same vein as Grosz and said that lifting weights is a total waste of time and is only pursued by the psychotic.
Claims like these are always excuses for people who cannot bench 135lbs to save their life.
Some of this seems rather obvious. Ask yourself this: Would you really dedicate so much for a hobby if the end results were not there?(muscle growth/body recomposition)
I’ll be honest. When I reach my physique goals, it will be at least partly to make up for certain inadaquecies. I’m shy, self-conscious, fairly insecure, and a loner. I don’t mind all of these traits, but increased self confidence is an attractive goal. I don’t want to be like many extroverted lifters I know whose egos are oozing with arrogance.
While it is rather naive for me to think this way, I would be lying to myself if I said it wasn’t a motivating factor. Being an FFB doesn’t help matters either, as I still harbor certain psychological insecurities from my years as “the fat kid”.
On the flip side, I do like the peace of mind that lifting provides. Still, I don’t think I can honestly say I would go the lengths I do with my lifestyle and eating habits if it did not offer the benefits(in terms of body recomposition) that it does.
If they make such an assertion as the ones you have described.
They better be some kind of bodyweight exercise master, and think weights are ineffective. Or else, they are a fool because you do not value your health or physique.
I’d like to know what the shrink does to tend for his body?
There seems to be a few motivations mixed in here, some has to do with challenging oneself, some for overcoming perceived inadequacies and some to be a phallus. That suggests that the analysis is partially right but that there is more to the practice.
For those who want to know who the talking heads are:
Monaghan’s research looks interesting and I am beginning to suspect it might have been cherry-picked a bit. I am trying to get a copy of his the perfect body article.
“Grosz argues that male body building can be read as an attempt to render the whole body into the phallus” (pp. 34-35 in Social geographies by Gill Valentine, 2001)[/quote]
What is the deal with philosophers and male genitalia? Why does every motivation have to either be related to your penis or your mother?
What is “female bodybuilding” related to?
I swear, everyone of these guys either tries to label every bodybuilder as either insane or gay.
[quote]
The following paragraph uses a few studies to describes male body building as an “narcissistic act” full of anxiety about their own and other male bodies and their lost “sexual capital” by getting to big to be found attractive, and thus laughable, by women. Also, apparently men worry about looking fat in clothes.[/quote]
The problem here is any act that involves how you look or how you are perceived can be labeled “narcissistic”…yet I don’t see any of these guys labeling themselves as such when it comes to what they wear, what they drive and how much money a woman spent on her hair, nails and makeup last week.
For some reason, they find this to be a negative act for men (or rather “bodybuilders”) yet ignore it completely everywhere else in society.
Why is that?
Those comments can be made about any activity that involves social status. The error is in acting like bodybuilding is perverse because of it.
From what I gather, you would have to be pretty fucking huge for no women at all to find you attractive simply because of big muscles. The top guys in the sport sure don’t have ugly girlfriends or wives (for the most part) so how can that statement about “sexual capital” be true?
You asked what is missing? What’s missing is any attempt at all to see this as a healthy lifestyle, or rather, not anymore unhealthy than staying up all night for weeks on end studying for exams simply so you aren’t broke when you graduate.
It is also no more unhealthy than spending over 25 grand on a car just so you can look bad ass in your driveway.
It is also no more unhealthy than owning 40 pairs of shoes all bought on sale as if you are preparing for a fucking shoe shortage.
This is America. I thought narcissism was the way things worked around here.