So what’s your solution. Force them to have an abortion?[/quote]
I’m only half joking about this, but I hear that living off of welfare is really quite comfortable. How about if for each additional child we REDUCE the check they receive or at minimum it stays the same instead of incentivising additional children.[/quote]
I agree. Incentivizing more children is where people start having an issue. It’s pretty bad when someone can make a living on having a child with three different men and live off the welfare and child support and not even apply for a job for years. The idiots that fuck them don’t help the situation either.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
License plate making can support a woman and her 5 children? I need to reconsider my career path I didn’t realize there were so many opportunities, must be a shortage of prisoners or something.[/quote]
Shouldn’t have 5 kids if all you can do is make license plates. [/quote]
I doubt anyone would disagree. The problem is letting a child suffer for something it has no control over. [/quote]
Like I said, make the parents pay for them even if it means they are indentured servants for the rest of their lives. [/quote]
Faced with that do you think abortions will really stop or just go underground again.
[/quote]
Or mothers will just abandon their babies. [/quote]
Do you think death for a baby is better than abondonment? Assuming the child is found of course.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
You could make the same double standard for the anti-abortion group. On one hand someone has a right to get money from the govt. to survive, but an unborn baby does not have a right to live. On one hand life is sacred, on the other hand, not so much.
The stand your ground law is probably the worst comparison you can make. Is the unborn baby choosing to attack the mother and the mother is defending herself by aborting it?? Nice.[/quote]
No. Because pro-choice people don’t view a fetus as a child. If they believed an unborn child was the same as child out of the womb then it would be a double standard of sorts.
The SYG law isn’t about self-defense when you have no other choice. It’s about being able to legally choose between two available options. You can run, or you can kill. It’s a question of valuing your pride more than someone’s life.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
License plate making can support a woman and her 5 children? I need to reconsider my career path I didn’t realize there were so many opportunities, must be a shortage of prisoners or something.[/quote]
Shouldn’t have 5 kids if all you can do is make license plates. [/quote]
Yes because the issue in America is that educated people with money are having bigger families while uneducated people with less money are not having kids.
Oh wait, that’s not what’s happening at ALL. [/quote]
Again, low income families only have about half of the abortions annually in America from what I’ve read.
If the Felon above has 5 kids, he might want to try a different abortion clinic, cause it ain’t working.
So what’s your solution. Force them to have an abortion?[/quote]
All abortions are unwanted children. Why would I force anyone to have an abortion? You’re the one trying to force people to do stuff. I would love for unwanted children to be at 0 and abortions to be at 0. So would pretty much any pro choice person that I’ve ever met. [/quote]
You are saying the Felon can’t afford to have kids so his best option is an abortion. What if he (more like she) doesn’t want one, what then?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:I can’t stop people from trying to kill their baby in their own house. All I can do is try and stop the “legal” killing of children. As oxymoroic as that sounds.
No it will probably go underground, but like I said, there’s not much I can do about that. [/quote]
If only we had some examples from history to wonder how it might be:
[quote]It was one of the late dictator’s cruelest commands. At first Romania’s birthrate nearly doubled. But poor nutrition and inadequate prenatal care endangered many pregnant women. The country’s infant-mortality rate soard to 83 deaths in every 1,000 births (against a Western European average of less than 10 per thousand). About one in 10 babies was born underweight; newborns weighing 1,500 grams (3 pounds, 5 ounces) were classified as miscarriages and denied treatment. Unwanted survivors often ended up in orphanages. “The law only forbade abortion,” says Dr. Alexander Floran Anca of Bucharest. “It did nothing to promote life.”
Ceausescu made mockery of family planning. He forbade sex education. Books on human sexuality and reproduction were classified as “state secrets,” to be used only as medical textbooks. With contraception banned, Romanians had to smuggle in condoms and birth-control pills. Though strictly illegal, abortions remained a widespread birth-control measure of last resort. Nationwide, Western sources estimate, 60 percent of all pregnancies ended in abortion or miscarriage.[/quote]
So what’s your solution. Force them to have an abortion?[/quote]
I’m only half joking about this, but I hear that living off of welfare is really quite comfortable. How about if for each additional child we REDUCE the check they receive or at minimum it stays the same instead of incentivising additional children.[/quote]
100% agree and I’m all for this.
Like I said earlier you could put the child in a home/orphanage and take every penny of government assistance the parent’s are entitled to and instead put it towards the child care.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:I can’t stop people from trying to kill their baby in their own house. All I can do is try and stop the “legal” killing of children. As oxymoroic as that sounds.
No it will probably go underground, but like I said, there’s not much I can do about that. [/quote]
If only we had some examples from history to wonder how it might be:
[quote]It was one of the late dictator’s cruelest commands. At first Romania’s birthrate nearly doubled. But poor nutrition and inadequate prenatal care endangered many pregnant women. The country’s infant-mortality rate soard to 83 deaths in every 1,000 births (against a Western European average of less than 10 per thousand). About one in 10 babies was born underweight; newborns weighing 1,500 grams (3 pounds, 5 ounces) were classified as miscarriages and denied treatment. Unwanted survivors often ended up in orphanages. “The law only forbade abortion,” says Dr. Alexander Floran Anca of Bucharest. “It did nothing to promote life.”
Ceausescu made mockery of family planning. He forbade sex education. Books on human sexuality and reproduction were classified as “state secrets,” to be used only as medical textbooks. With contraception banned, Romanians had to smuggle in condoms and birth-control pills. Though strictly illegal, abortions remained a widespread birth-control measure of last resort. Nationwide, Western sources estimate, 60 percent of all pregnancies ended in abortion or miscarriage.[/quote]
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
You are saying the Felon can’t afford to have kids so his best option is an abortion. What if he (more like she) doesn’t want one, what then?[/quote]
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Well when you put it that way it sounds awful, but I don’t see it as slavery. More like court ordered child support for both parents. [/quote]
That sounds like jail. I don’t see how the kid wins out in that scenario.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
License plate making can support a woman and her 5 children? I need to reconsider my career path I didn’t realize there were so many opportunities, must be a shortage of prisoners or something.[/quote]
Shouldn’t have 5 kids if all you can do is make license plates. [/quote]
I doubt anyone would disagree. The problem is letting a child suffer for something it has no control over. [/quote]
Like I said, make the parents pay for them even if it means they are indentured servants for the rest of their lives. [/quote]
Faced with that do you think abortions will really stop or just go underground again.
[/quote]
Or mothers will just abandon their babies. [/quote]
Do you think death for a baby is better than abondonment? Assuming the child is found of course. [/quote]
For a baby? No. But we are talking about a fetus.
Personally, I don’t like abortion. There is something revolting about it however, I am pro-choice because I don’t believe my personal feelings should trump someone else’s rights, especially when I am a man (who obviously can’t get pregnant) and the people I would be oppressing, for lack of a better word, are the ones who have to deal with this issue directly.
So what’s your solution. Force them to have an abortion?[/quote]
I’m only half joking about this, but I hear that living off of welfare is really quite comfortable. How about if for each additional child we REDUCE the check they receive or at minimum it stays the same instead of incentivising additional children.[/quote]
100% agree and I’m all for this.
Like I said earlier you could put the child in a home/orphanage and take every penny of government assistance the parent’s are entitled to and instead put it towards the child care. [/quote]
Yes. There is not a while lot of oversight to what the mother does with all that money. A friend of mine paid child support for his kids and had visitation a couple times a year. You know what he had to do when he saw his children? Buy them new clothes.
Edit: I don’t agree with taking the child from the mother, but there needs to be more oversight in how the mother uses child support and welfare money.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
License plate making can support a woman and her 5 children? I need to reconsider my career path I didn’t realize there were so many opportunities, must be a shortage of prisoners or something.[/quote]
Shouldn’t have 5 kids if all you can do is make license plates. [/quote]
Yes because the issue in America is that educated people with money are having bigger families while uneducated people with less money are not having kids.
Oh wait, that’s not what’s happening at ALL. [/quote]
Again, low income families only have about half of the abortions annually in America from what I’ve read.
If the Felon above has 5 kids, he might want to try a different abortion clinic, cause it ain’t working.
So what’s your solution. Force them to have an abortion?[/quote]
How many are adults with an ability to care for a child? I don’t have the stats but when you say household does that mean a 14 year old girl whose parents are not poor would be considered not poor? Not only that, a household may not be poor but having a child might change that. [/quote]
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
You are saying the Felon can’t afford to have kids so his best option is an abortion. What if he (more like she) doesn’t want one, what then?[/quote]
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Babie’s life vs. Mother’s freedom. When you boil it down that’s really the isse. All BS aside, I’m siding with the baby every single time. [/quote]
It is two lives. That is the issue…not just the kid’s life or the mom’s life…and I would personally say the one with a conscious mind has the responsibility to look out for herself first.[/quote]
It is not 2 lives. It is 1 life and 1’s freedom. Unless I’ve missed that woman are dying in child birth by the thousands.
Don’t agree. 9 months is nothing compared to an average life span of what 70 years. [/quote]
No, it is TWO LIVES. One who is conscious and one who is not and isn’t a fully developed human being yet.
That fully developed human should have the right to protect their own body if the means are available. You are talking about the entire course of someone’s life.
maybe that abortion means that mother with no education can now become a doctor and support all of her kids later.
Maybe having that kid would have resulted in two people on welfare instead of later on one in med school.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Well when you put it that way it sounds awful, but I don’t see it as slavery. More like court ordered child support for both parents. [/quote]
That sounds like jail. I don’t see how the kid wins out in that scenario.[/quote]
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:I can’t stop people from trying to kill their baby in their own house. All I can do is try and stop the “legal” killing of children. As oxymoroic as that sounds.
No it will probably go underground, but like I said, there’s not much I can do about that. [/quote]
If only we had some examples from history to wonder how it might be:
[quote]It was one of the late dictator’s cruelest commands. At first Romania’s birthrate nearly doubled. But poor nutrition and inadequate prenatal care endangered many pregnant women. The country’s infant-mortality rate soard to 83 deaths in every 1,000 births (against a Western European average of less than 10 per thousand). About one in 10 babies was born underweight; newborns weighing 1,500 grams (3 pounds, 5 ounces) were classified as miscarriages and denied treatment. Unwanted survivors often ended up in orphanages. “The law only forbade abortion,” says Dr. Alexander Floran Anca of Bucharest. “It did nothing to promote life.”
Ceausescu made mockery of family planning. He forbade sex education. Books on human sexuality and reproduction were classified as “state secrets,” to be used only as medical textbooks. With contraception banned, Romanians had to smuggle in condoms and birth-control pills. Though strictly illegal, abortions remained a widespread birth-control measure of last resort. Nationwide, Western sources estimate, 60 percent of all pregnancies ended in abortion or miscarriage.[/quote]
Birth control is subsidized. Sex education is standard curriculum.[/quote]
You’re reading the wrong parts.
Though not using birth control and not teaching sex ed are often stuff pro life Jesus freaks are big fans of they weren’t what I was wanting you to take home from that.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
You are saying the Felon can’t afford to have kids so his best option is an abortion. What if he (more like she) doesn’t want one, what then?[/quote]
Then she gets on welfare.[/quote]
Take her welfare and give it to the kid then. [/quote]
OK…I am sure he can just catch a bus to the store for food.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
You are saying the Felon can’t afford to have kids so his best option is an abortion. What if he (more like she) doesn’t want one, what then?[/quote]
Then she gets on welfare.[/quote]
Take her welfare and give it to the kid then. [/quote]
This can be understood but what is confusing is how those who are against abortion are also against welfare.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Well when you put it that way it sounds awful, but I don’t see it as slavery. More like court ordered child support for both parents. [/quote]
That sounds like jail. I don’t see how the kid wins out in that scenario.[/quote]
How does the child win if it’s aborted?[/quote]
It doesn’t…just like it probably won’t win if you take away welfare and force that same mother to support that kid with no job and no father.
You made a suggestion that is basically jail…which means we still have to pay for that.
I am not happy about abortions and don’t plan on having one for my kid. That doesn’t mean I have to be against abortions because I am looking at society as whole and not just this one pint in time.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
For a baby? No. But we are talking about a fetus.
[/quote]
We can stop here I guess. They’re no point in continuing. I’m not going to argue for the next 12 pages on whether a fetus is a person or not. It’s one of those words we made up to excuse our actions. “Oh it’s okay to suck this thing out it’s just a fetus. It’s not even human.” That’s absurd to me.