[quote]Professor X wrote:
But…you weren’t robbed. You paid that to be a part of this society. You can always move to Canada and live in the woods by yourself.
[/quote]
Canada doesn’t tax its citizens? Really?
Taxes are forcefully taken from citizens. That is robbery if a private citizen does it.
[quote]
This makes no sense whatsoever.
Like I said, many here don’t even care about life…they just want to play semantics.[/quote]
What makes no sense about it? Also, I’m not arguing about life. I’m opposed to murder.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
Canada doesn’t tax its citizens? Really?
Taxes are forcefully taken from citizens. That is robbery if a private citizen does it.[/quote]
You missed the point. Canada isn’t the point. The point is, move out if you hate it so much because you pay those taxes to be a part of this society. Move away from society if you feel you don’t have to contribute at all.
You are ok with people DYING but are against murder.
OK…yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Let’s end all welfare…so those people die…but we didn’t kill them directly so its ok.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
None of this is black and white…but politics sure as hell does seem to treat these topics like they are.
People are AGAINST all abortions. That doesn’t even make any logical sense. Unless these same people are living their lives in an effort to save all of these children once they get here, what is right is allowing a human being to decide what to do with their own body.
I can’t get pregnant…but I know I sure wouldn’t want to be forced to carry a new life I didn’t want and wasn’t able to take care of…all because politics demanded it…and those same people won’t be there to help feed the kid after day two.[/quote]
I agree it is not black and white; however, many people are against all abortion because from their point of view, it is murder. To them (not me) no matter what the circumstance are killing a child that otherwise would come to term is wrong. I completely get it, but don’t agree with that view.
It does make logical sense. They are for protection lives that cannot protect themselves, but not for taking care of that life because it isn’t their responsibility. Like I said, I get, but don’t agree with it.
Here is the kicker, no one is forcing you to carry an unwanted baby. Instead they are forcing you to take responsibility for the life you helped create, whether that was your intention or not. Maybe that’s semantics, but to me there’s a difference.
Obviously politics doesn’t demand it either because we have government supported abortions every single day here.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I agree it is not black and white; however, many people are against all abortion because from their point of view, it is murder. To them (not me) no matter what the circumstance are killing a child that otherwise would come to term is wrong. I completely get it, but don’t agree with that view.[/quote]
…and my response to that is if you are going to hop on that sanctity of life train, you had better ride that bitch till the wheels come off.
Leaving a kid to fend for himself after that birth isn’t doing that.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
The father has a felony record and can’t get a job to support the other 4 kids he has. The mother was a stripper who quit working when she got pregnant.
This is real life.[/quote]
Then have the father make license plates, clean street, wash cars, whatever to pay for that child. Have the mother find a job or take the child away and give the foster home/orphanage every single penny she is entitled to under every government program she is covered by.
[quote]
Real life is way more complicated than “let’s just let them take care of it”.[/quote]
Agree.
Don’t agree. Plenty of kids have really shitty childhoods and turn into productive members of society. Heck only about half of abortions are in low income families. Atleast the kid has a shot at life if he’s not aborted. He can make something of himself. Aborted children do not have that opportunity.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I agree it is not black and white; however, many people are against all abortion because from their point of view, it is murder. To them (not me) no matter what the circumstance are killing a child that otherwise would come to term is wrong. I completely get it, but don’t agree with that view.[/quote]
…and my response to that is if you are going to hop on that sanctity of life train, you had better ride that bitch till the wheels come off.
Leaving a kid to fend for himself after that birth isn’t doing that.[/quote]
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You missed the point. Canada isn’t the point. The point is, move out if you hate it so much because you pay those taxes to be a part of this society. Move away from society if you feel you don’t have to contribute at all. [/quote]
Where would I move? Where can I be free from taxation? Where are property rights recognized to that point?
[quote]
You are ok with people DYING but are against murder.
OK…yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Let’s end all welfare…so those people die…but we didn’t kill them directly so its ok.
Wow at the thought process.[/quote]
Yes, death is okay. Yes, I am opposed to murder. I do support ending all welfare.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Then have the father make license plates, clean street, wash cars, whatever to pay for that child. Have the mother find a job or take the child away and give the foster home/orphanage every single penny she is entitled to under every government program she is covered by. [/quote]
Did you miss where I wrote KIDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS?
You and I must have way different ideas on the jobs available for felony record holders with no education that can pay for 5 kids.
The mother also doesn’t have an opportunity that she may have if she wasn’t pregnant.
once again, I am putting myself in those shoes.
I sure as hell would not want something growing in me I did not want and did not love. In a situation like that, unless you plan to support government programs to help children like that AND their mothers, why be against abortion?
Government programs should be there to support that new family…especially if we politically forcing a woman to keep the kid.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
What amazes me (actually it doesn’t) is how there are posters who talk about the sanctity of life in regard to a fetus who then talk about shooting illegals as they cross the border. Some of them are not only women and kids but also pregnant women. These same posters are against welfare but want a poor, uneducated teen to keep a baby that can only survive via welfare. [/quote]
I hope that’s not direct at me. I gave Ryu shit for his “shoot illegals as they cross” comment. [/quote]
No. You never came across as a douchebag.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
Where would I move? Where can I be free from taxation? Where are property rights recognized to that point?[/quote]
Dude, move to fucking Greenland for all I care. Just quit acting like taxes shouldn’t be paid or that they are ROBBING you when you drive to work on those streets and your kids go to those schools.
LOL!
Nothing else to say.
To the people who are ok with thousands of people dying but are against “murder”…please save us the moral superiority act.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
Why is USMC being questioned about whether or not he is willing to pay for “unwanted” children as if his money currently only goes toward those who choose to birth the children they conceive? He already pays for abortions. If he has to pay one way or the other, he might as well get to choose which.[/quote]
You’re right. His tax dollars should go up as if we get rid of abortions it will take a lot more money and resources to support the unwanted children than he is currently paying to perform abortions. [/quote]
Or, we could not spend money on the NSA reading my e-mails… or about 1,000 other things. [/quote]
Good places to start. I’d start at the F35. Way more expensive than phones. [/quote]
Well you better figure out something else then because the F/A 18 is on it’s last leg. At least unlike phones, defense spending is in the constitution. [/quote]
So the F-35 may end up totaling over 1.5 trillion according to some estimates but at least defense spending is in the constitution.
It’s easy to say you want people to take responsibility but you have parents with educations and good jobs who wanted to have kids who, when it comes to raising them, are pretty much bystanders. To expect a 13 year old to have the sense to be a good parent, let alone a basic provider, is asking too much.
I knew a girl who at 14 was pregnant with her second child. The father was 18 and it was going to be, as far as anyone knew, his third child. It would be nice if everyone was able to do the right thing and did the right thing but it’s not the case. In the meantime the reality is a child who can’t be expected to wait for its parent or parents to get their act together.
Another thing: a girl just has to say she doesn’t know who the father is to get him off the hook. She can claim she was drunk and raped, for example.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I am strictly for people accepting responsibility for themselves. If you cant afford a child, don’t get pregnant. If you do get pregnant, accept responsibility for your actions. Like I said, if you cant handle that, there is a 100% guaranteed way to not get pregnant. If you get raped, go to the hospital and get your plan B to keep a pregnancy from occurring. Also there is always the option of putting the child up for adoption for the parents that cant afford to raise it. [/quote]
This isn’t reality.
What is reality is the guy getting drunk at a club and screwing a stripper who has a kid she decides not to get aborted so she ends up on welfare because daddy sells drugs and has a felony.
It is great to be for personal responsibility. I am for that too.
I am also for being a REALIST.
Condoms break and people have sex with no deep thought other than taking care of the immediate erection.
Those completely against abortion logically must be FOR taking care of these kids through government assistance…otherwise, why be against aborting them?
Sanctity of life seems to end at birth.[/quote]
How about stripper mommy decides to get her shit together and raise her child appropriately? Maybe she can save all that stripper money and start taking some college courses. Or she could just continue stripping and use her money a little wiser because strippers don’t strip for free.
Somewhere in a time far far away in a place called Earth, and a country called America, society worked just fine without abortions. Somehow all these unwanted children were allowed to live. I doubt they wish they were aborted.
You and I must have way different ideas on the jobs available for felony record holders with no education that can pay for 5 kids.[/quote]
I thought we were talking about a mistake here, like 1 kid. I don’t even know what to say about 5 kids. The parents are really stupid and are probably not fit to be parents.
Take the kids, put them in homes and make the parents pay for them. I don’t really care if they have to be indentured servants until they’re 97 to pay for those 5 kids.
You reap what you sow.
[quote]
The mother also doesn’t have an opportunity that she may have if she wasn’t pregnant.
once again, I am putting myself in those shoes.
I sure as hell would not want something growing in me I did not want and did not love. In a situation like that, unless you plan to support government programs to help children like that AND their mothers, why be against abortion?
Government programs should be there to support that new family…especially if we politically forcing a woman to keep the kid.[/quote]
Again, only about 50% of abortions are in low income families. If a woman doesn’t want something growing in her, maybe she should of thought about that before fucking 7 different guys in 7 days.
For the 4th or so time now, that is not my stance. I am for some programs in this context. Tax payers should not have to pay for 5 mistakes though. It’s absurd.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
How about stripper mommy decides to get her shit together and raise her child appropriately? Maybe she can save all that stripper money and start taking some college courses. Or she could just continue stripping and use her money a little wiser because strippers don’t strip for free.[/quote]
You see a lot of pregnant strippers?
Uh, the population was way less back then and there was way more room for all of those kids.
500 parentless kids released on this city this year isn’t going to go unnoticed by anyone.
It tears down our own society because 15 years later that same kid will be crawling through your window to steal your tv…then you pay for their jail time…and feed them until they die.
Avoiding that abortion led to you paying MORE in the long run.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I am strictly for people accepting responsibility for themselves. If you cant afford a child, don’t get pregnant. If you do get pregnant, accept responsibility for your actions. Like I said, if you cant handle that, there is a 100% guaranteed way to not get pregnant. If you get raped, go to the hospital and get your plan B to keep a pregnancy from occurring. Also there is always the option of putting the child up for adoption for the parents that cant afford to raise it. [/quote]
This isn’t reality.
What is reality is the guy getting drunk at a club and screwing a stripper who has a kid she decides not to get aborted so she ends up on welfare because daddy sells drugs and has a felony.
It is great to be for personal responsibility. I am for that too.
I am also for being a REALIST.
Condoms break and people have sex with no deep thought other than taking care of the immediate erection.
Those completely against abortion logically must be FOR taking care of these kids through government assistance…otherwise, why be against aborting them?
Sanctity of life seems to end at birth.[/quote]
How about stripper mommy decides to get her shit together and raise her child appropriately? Maybe she can save all that stripper money and start taking some college courses. Or she could just continue stripping and use her money a little wiser because strippers don’t strip for free.
Somewhere in a time far far away in a place called Earth, and a country called America, society worked just fine without abortions. Somehow all these unwanted children were allowed to live. I doubt they wish they were aborted. [/quote]
Lol at America not having abortions long before it was allowed. Making things illegal stops them from happening says heroin users, rapists, and murderers.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
Why is USMC being questioned about whether or not he is willing to pay for “unwanted” children as if his money currently only goes toward those who choose to birth the children they conceive? He already pays for abortions. If he has to pay one way or the other, he might as well get to choose which.[/quote]
You’re right. His tax dollars should go up as if we get rid of abortions it will take a lot more money and resources to support the unwanted children than he is currently paying to perform abortions. [/quote]
Or, we could not spend money on the NSA reading my e-mails… or about 1,000 other things. [/quote]
Good places to start. I’d start at the F35. Way more expensive than phones. [/quote]
Well you better figure out something else then because the F/A 18 is on it’s last leg. At least unlike phones, defense spending is in the constitution. [/quote]
So the F-35 may end up totaling over 1.5 trillion according to some estimates but at least defense spending is in the constitution. [/quote]
I’m saying that the F/A 18 platform is falling apart. I know from first hand expereince that some of the parts aren’t even being maufactured anymore. Like, the companies don’t exist. So if you plan on maintaining air superiority or even being able contend in air to air combat, you better come up with something to replace them with.
Do we specifically need the F-35B’s. Probably not, but they’re cheaper and more functional than the F-22 Raptors. At least they’re supposed to be. It’s been a while since I’ve look at either.
I thought we were talking about a mistake here, like 1 kid. I don’t even know what to say about 5 kids. The parents are really stupid and are probably not fit to be parents. [/quote]
LOL, dude that is the point. Do you think these people are just a job away from helpng themselves? These are social problems that are cyclical. Mommy is a stripper with no daddy around so baby becomes a stripper to pay bills and the cycle continues.
Mind you, everything I just rote is a real scenario I am aware of. I didn’t make that up.
Mc Donald’s isn’t paying enough to take care of 5 kids and yourself. Sorry…and even they might deny a felony holder…which means the problems in society continued.
[quote]Take the kids, put them in homes and make the parents pay for them. I don’t really care if they have to be indentured servants until they’re 97 to pay for those 5 kids.
You reap what you sow.
[/quote]
OK…so now you are for putting people in “payment jail”? Who pays for that?
…and once again, how do you get a good job to pay for those 5 kids with a felony?
License plate making can support a woman and her 5 children? I need to reconsider my career path I didn’t realize there were so many opportunities, must be a shortage of prisoners or something.