A Sane Canadian (No, Not Vroom)

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]CaptainLogic wrote:
PB, good God stop posting, you’re a national embarrassment.

paul bunyan wrote:
In canada we have programs for mentally ill people so that they don’t go on the streets and cause crime.

Wow, that’s great, how about perpetuating some more myths about people with debilitating illnesses? Do we also have a program to keep melanoma patients off the street to stop the spread of cancer? Or maybe you’re just spewing patriotic BS faster than you can think?[/quote]

That’s some funny shit!

62

You guys keep saying im wrong but ive yet to hear a descent arguement about what ive posted.

MIKE- China and India are industrializing at a rate that rivals that of early 20th century Russia. Jobs are being shipped over to India at an alarming rate . China turns out something like 4 times more engineers per year than the US. I don’t know how old you are but I’ll bet you and I both shall see the day China emerges as and economic and military giant.

Yes the liberals are a bunch of mutts. But the conservatives are far worse. You talk about politicians wasting money on lifestyle and trips, well how much money would the conservatives have wasted if we had gone to Iraq like they wanted. I wish the conservatives did get elected. That way their incompetance would be revealed to idiots like you. Your gonna love this, my party is NDP. But if I ever hear ann election is real close I just might vote libeRAL. Why don’t you move to the states, your vision of what canada should be is quite similiar to America.

LORSICO- Drug companies don’t sell drugs cheaper to third world countries. Thats why people have to get permission from the companies to make generic versions. The reason canada has cheaper drugs is because our hospitals are all united under the government so our BUYING POWER is greater, like wal mart sort of. And I don’t think you are stupid enough to call canada a thrid world nation. Hospitals can turn you away if you are dying. They only have to stabalize you , then out the door. Don’t talk to me about the mentally ill, im right ur wrong. I used to get headaches so I got an MRI just in case. I doubt in the states I would have got one.

63

Wow, another Canada versus US thread.

Anyway, just had to say that it looks like we have ignorance north of the border as well, about our own government and political systems – not to mention the health care system.

So, there are good points and bad points with our health care system. It is not as bad as some would have you believe, but yes, there are horror stories concerning waits. I suppose in some way those counter horror stories concerning bankruptcies in the states.

However, just acknowledging that there are problems with both systems, and that really, nobody knows how to solve the health care issue yet.

As for medication prices, if you are paying more than us for them, you might want to think about how and why that works. You’ll probably also find that Europeans pay less for medication than Americans too. It has nothing to do with quality, just your own money grubbing companies making as much profit as they can get away with, nothing more and nothing less… in and of itself, it is neither good nor bad.

Finally, all governments, including ones in Canada, whether liberal or otherwise, have some level of corruption. It is human nature. It happens in the US and just about any other country you can mention. I love watching people freak out like the Canadian liberal government invented questionable spending practices.

We do have lots of oil, and we are a huge supplier to the US. We also generate lots of power and transmit a lot of that to the US. We also have a lot of raw materials, which the US buys from us, as well as growing demand from Asia.

Anyway, as for military size, one thing to realize is that Canada is not interested in imposing military might externally. Given that, it is very difficult for another country to seriously launch a traditional attack on Canada. Terrorism is of course a different type of threat, which is not something that our military is expected to counter directly.

So, hopefully I avoided doing anything other than smoothing out a few rough points. I don’t think I’ve presented a major liberal viewpoint or anything like that… just trying to set the ground work for some discussion, if anyone is actually interested in carrying these topics further.

64

Funny thing 'bout this thread. Vroom is all over the threads about American issues and politics… criticizing constantly…got an answer for everything…but when a thread pops up about his home country’s issues and politics…not hardly a peep…well, we did hear a lil peep…What a hypocrite. Where are ya, buddy?

65

[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
vroom wrote:
Hmm, I think if Canada built up its military it would be preemptively invaded, just in case…

Yes, I’m kidding, calm the fuck down already.

It depends, do you have oil?

Canada has a shit load of oil. We export almost as much oil to the US as saudi arabia does. The soft wood lumber issue is heating up and our government and businessmen are apparantly chatting with china and india about possible oil trade. If the deal goes through I wouldn’t be surprised to see marines battling chinese in my back yard.[/quote]

You are really getting dumber with each post you write. Incredible.

66

[quote]Remz wrote:
paul bunyan wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
vroom wrote:
Hmm, I think if Canada built up its military it would be preemptively invaded, just in case…

Yes, I’m kidding, calm the fuck down already.

It depends, do you have oil?

Canada has a shit load of oil. We export almost as much oil to the US as saudi arabia does. The soft wood lumber issue is heating up and our government and businessmen are apparantly chatting with china and india about possible oil trade. If the deal goes through I wouldn’t be surprised to see marines battling chinese in my back yard.

You are really getting dumber with each post you write. Incredible.[/quote]
I’ll admit that post was stupid,but there is plenty truth to it.

67

Good timing throttle! Anyway, as it turns out I was busy traveling to and from the Staley Bootcamp in Arizona. It was great by the way.

Have you been keeping up on events outside of the politics forum at all?

68

[quote]vroom wrote:
Good timing throttle! Anyway, as it turns out I was busy traveling to and from the Staley Bootcamp in Arizona. It was great by the way.

Have you been keeping up on events outside of the politics forum at all?[/quote]

I have now that you ask! Was trying to make the bootcamp but I needed to coordinate it with a business trip to AZ and couldn’t get it worked out. How great was it? I’m envious.

Now, baby, here is a thread for you! It’s time for you to tear into this thread like TC’s dogs do a mailman covered with …Canadian bacon. Have at it bruddah.

69

Paul Bunyan:

Yer Funnnny

P.S

Im lafing at you, not with u.

P.P.S.

Your proof that cndinan soscial programs dont work too gud.

70

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
paul bunyan wrote:
Doogie is a douche. We have a small military because our liberal government as corrupt as they may be is intelligent enough to know that giving health care to canadians is more important than bombing a nation over nothing. How dare you criticize our armed forces, look at the world wars you idiot. In ww1 we amassed an army of 800 000 from a population of like 8 million. You can bet ur ass that when a just cause arises in the near future our country will kick serious ass like before. We don’t need a fucking strong military in peace time.

Here I was reading through this semi-humorous post when I came across this piece of crap.

“Healthcare”, you can honestly sit there and tell me your wait-in-line for years, sorry - come back next month, we will see you when you are almost dead healthcare system works? You are bragging about a healthcare system so good that Canadian’s, who can afford it, come to the States for their care? Even the high-ranking Canadian Mister of health comes to the US for care. Your country is a prime example of why the Hillary push for socialized medicine failed; because it doesn’t work!

“Military”. Oh no, he didn’t! Dude, the only reason you are not speaking Russian right now is because there is a US State between you and Russia.

Your only perk is location. If you were not right next to the US you would have been taken over many, many, many times by anyone and everyone who felt like it. And then you might not be so smartass about saying how you are neutral and never in wars, etc. You only have that luxury because you are next to the US.

[/quote]

Yeah, that’s it. Canada gets a pass because it’s next door to the U.S. Not because it would be a giant logistical nightmare to ferry adequate troops and materiel across the sea. Or that Canada doesn’t have grand imperial designs on the rest of the world, thus pissing the world off. Nor could it be that Canada’s weather or terrain would be a huge problem for any military inclined to invade. Which leads to my next question: which country is it that you think wants to invade Canada?

WMD

71

[quote]JPBear wrote:
Paul Bunyan:

Yer Funnnny

P.S

Im lafing at you, not with u.

P.P.S.

Your proof that cndinan soscial programs dont work too gud. [/quote]

Apparently they’re pretty lax about teaching spelling, too.

72

[quote]WMD wrote:
JPBear wrote:
Paul Bunyan:

Yer Funnnny

P.S

Im lafing at you, not with u.

P.P.S.

Your proof that cndinan soscial programs dont work too gud.

Apparently they’re pretty lax about teaching spelling, too.[/quote]

She wuz mayking a funni…

73

I would like to add a few tidbits to this post. Since I work for one of the nortorious drug companies, I think that I can add this from an insiders perspective. Please pay attention:

THE SAME LARGE COMPANIES THAT SELL DRUGS IN THE US ARE THE SAME ONES THAT SELL THEM OUTSIDE THE US!

You might find a few smaller generic companies, but on a whole this is true when you are talking about the major players. The quality has not changed just because it is sold to other countries. When you are talking unknown quality, what you are talking about is some smaller, lesser know generic companies making products. BTW another lesson:

MANY OF THE LARGE COMPANIES CONTRACT THEIR DRUG MANUFACTURING TO SMALLER FIRMS TO KEEP COST DOWN!

So even if the drug has a major player’s name on it, it might have been manufactured at one of these smaller faciities.

If you have any questions about what I said or questions about the pharma industry, please let me know.

We now return to our regularly scheduled rants.

74

[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
… Drug companies don’t sell drugs cheaper to third world countries. Thats why people have to get permission from the companies to make generic versions. The reason canada has cheaper drugs is because our hospitals are all united under the government so our BUYING POWER is greater, like wal mart sort of. And I don’t think you are stupid enough to call canada a thrid world nation. Hospitals can turn you away if you are dying. They only have to stabalize you , then out the door. Don’t talk to me about the mentally ill, im right ur wrong. I used to get headaches so I got an MRI just in case. I doubt in the states I would have got one. [/quote]

You are wrong about the drug prices. Canada and many other countries have lower prices because their government imposes price controls.

The drug companies are FORCED to sell at the lower price or not at all.

The problem is that the drug companies turn around and raise prices for the US consumer so they can make a profit and afford research.

The US consumer is actually indirectly subsidizing Canada and many other countries by doing this.

If the US adopted similar price controls it would likely drive some drug companies out of business and force the drug companies to either reduce research or appeal to the government to subsidize more research.

Either way the US consumer or US tax payer would pay for it.

Before you brag how much better your system is, you should learn more about it. Perhaps you will be thankful to the Americans that pay through the nose to make your system workable.

75

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

You are wrong about the drug prices. Canada and many other countries have lower prices because their government imposes price controls.

The drug companies are FORCED to sell at the lower price or not at all.

The problem is that the drug companies turn around and raise prices for the US consumer so they can make a profit and afford research.

The US consumer is actually indirectly subsidizing Canada and many other countries by doing this.

If the US adopted similar price controls it would likely drive some drug companies out of business and force the drug companies to either reduce research or appeal to the government to subsidize more research.

[/quote]

You might want to reevaluate your conception of the ‘poor drug companies’. For the past 2 decades the pharmaceutical business has ranked as the most profitable industry in the fortune 500 list.

In 2001 the average profit as a percentage of sales for the 10 American drug companies on the fortune 500 list was 18.5%. As a comparison, the median net return for all other fortune 500 companies as a percentage of sales was 3.3%.

Americans have been getting screwed by big Pharma for years now, so don’t go spouting off about ‘Americans subsidizing drug prices in other countries’. I think the companies can afford to cut prices a little, especially since they spent an average of 14% of sales on Research and Development in 2000, while dishing out 36% of their sales for something called ‘Marketing and Admin’.

It’s pretty tough to have sympathy for an industry that spends more on marketing than on R & D, then cries poverty whenever there’s any mention of price regulation.

76

[quote]The problem is that the drug companies turn around and raise prices for the US consumer so they can make a profit and afford research.

The US consumer is actually indirectly subsidizing Canada and many other countries by doing this.

If the US adopted similar price controls it would likely drive some drug companies out of business and force the drug companies to either reduce research or appeal to the government to subsidize more research.[/quote]

LMFAO!

Hook line and sinker baby. Maybe you should get your information from a source other than the Pharceutical industry lobbyists?

Ahahahahahahahaha. Priceless!

It turns out, companies are making a profit even in “price controlled” countries… or they could simply not choose to be in those countries at all.

Oh well, I feel so sorry for those huge drug companies… sniff sniff… their plight today is so troubling.

77

[quote]vroom wrote:
The problem is that the drug companies turn around and raise prices for the US consumer so they can make a profit and afford research.

The US consumer is actually indirectly subsidizing Canada and many other countries by doing this.

If the US adopted similar price controls it would likely drive some drug companies out of business and force the drug companies to either reduce research or appeal to the government to subsidize more research.

LMFAO!

Hook line and sinker baby. Maybe you should get your information from a source other than the Pharceutical industry lobbyists?

Ahahahahahahahaha. Priceless!

It turns out, companies are making a profit even in “price controlled” countries… or they could simply not choose to be in those countries at all.

Oh well, I feel so sorry for those huge drug companies… sniff sniff… their plight today is so troubling.[/quote]

Then who pays for it? Serious question, please respond.

Don’t feel sorry for them. They are making a fortune and turning out tons of new products every year. I advised on a lot of their deals over the years. They are great investments.

The US does not have a communist or socialist economy so the research is paid for by private companies. They assume the risk an in turn are compensated via profit. Cutting edge drugs are developed so investors can earn back a profit. This has benefit for the consumer and the investor. If the US controlled the price also, what incentive would the drug companies have to develop them?

Socialized medicine does not work for other then very basic healthcare.

Social drug programs will only provide the best drugs if someone else does the heavy lifting, similar to how the weak Canadian military is acceptable because a strong nieghbor is currently benevolent towards it.

78

[quote]WMD wrote:
Yeah, that’s it. Canada gets a pass because it’s next door to the U.S. Not because it would be a giant logistical nightmare to ferry adequate troops and materiel across the sea. Or that Canada doesn’t have grand imperial designs on the rest of the world, thus pissing the world off. Nor could it be that Canada’s weather or terrain would be a huge problem for any military inclined to invade. Which leads to my next question: which country is it that you think wants to invade Canada?

WMD
[/quote]

The French of course, haven’t you been paying attention!

79

[quote]vroom wrote:
The problem is that the drug companies turn around and raise prices for the US consumer so they can make a profit and afford research.

The US consumer is actually indirectly subsidizing Canada and many other countries by doing this.

If the US adopted similar price controls it would likely drive some drug companies out of business and force the drug companies to either reduce research or appeal to the government to subsidize more research.

LMFAO!

Hook line and sinker baby. Maybe you should get your information from a source other than the Pharceutical industry lobbyists?

Ahahahahahahahaha. Priceless!

It turns out, companies are making a profit even in “price controlled” countries… or they could simply not choose to be in those countries at all.

Oh well, I feel so sorry for those huge drug companies… sniff sniff… their plight today is so troubling.[/quote]

vroom, the relatively small profit they make selling to Canada does not provide enough to fund much of research they do.

I think the pharmaceutical companies are flawed. They spend far too much on advertising. They stick it to the US consumer that is not in a position to negotiate volume discounts.

Like it or not the US consumer is funding far more research per capita than the Canadian consumer.

I believe real reforms are necessary in the US system, but Canadian price controls are only effective because the US is footing the bill.

A true free market would likely bring prices down across the board for healthcare as well as drug costs.

80

[quote]hedo wrote:

Then who pays for it? Serious question, please respond.

[/quote]

Who pays for what?

The US is the only industrialized country that doesn’t regulate drug prices, and you’re somehow suggesting this is a good thing? I guess if your idea of good is hitting up the American public for all it’s worth in order to make astronomical profits, then yeah, unregulated drug prices are great! But like I said in my last post, price regulation could easily be implemented in the US and the companies would still turn out a profit.

It is true that about half of the drug companies profits come at the expense of the American public, but you can’t go blaming other countries if your own corporations make you their bitch.