A Liberal Supermajority

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Muslims have every right to become members of our society, but ANYBODY, Muslim/Christian/whatever who violates the basic tenants of Eurocentrism and tries to promote, say, putting women in Birkas because it’s part of their religion, need to go.

Well, that’s the real problem, isn’t it? - Special rules for special people, and certain people thinking they have a divine mandate for those special rules? That’s what shari’ah is - an alternative Constitution handed down from Allah that says, “Do this and not that.” But given our complete cultural capitulation to every minority that feels it doesn’t have economic and academic “equality,” it will be hard to recover any sort of resistance to the former.

But what you’re saying also involves nonwhites subscribing to ideas that came from European civilization. Many may view any pressure to subscribe to those ideas as “racism.” Many are also apt to view the lack of the success of their own civilization as a product of “white colonialism,” not as a product of their own cultural values, just as I believe the relative success of Western civilization comes from the values that you described initially. I don’t believe these are “white” values - I believe they are universal. But I’m not sure nonwhites will view them the same way. [/quote]

Very good indeed.

One thing we seem unable to accept anymore is that there is no way 3000 conflicting world views can coexist in one country. No way. The melting pot was where any person can be melted into the structure of OUR society. Not a society where any and all ideology is accepted as equal to every other one. That is a modern perversion of what immigration has meant to the history of this nation.

82

Well, they can coexist under some sort of dictatorship. Saddam managed to keep everyone from fighting.

The rest of the world is entitled to its way of life, of course. Our viewpoint in this country, (the one mentioned by Entheogens), is the reason we’re not living in dollar-a-day poverty like much of the rest of the world. China, India, Brazil, and Russia are catching up economically by adopting capitalism. Most of Africa is still in the stage of wealth distribution and Big Man politics (where we are heading), and doesn’t seem to be doing too well, except for Ghana.

83

[quote]skaz05 wrote:
Just wow man. Scary.

For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. We are quickly approaching the type of world in which I would not choose to live. I’ve considered myself free all my life. I would refuse to be a serf.

I have the money and a small home in a very isolated part of Colorado. My wife and kids love it there and think of it as a vacation home. It may soon be our permanent home. I probably would never stop being an American (which to me was always something very special), but would not want to be around my fellow Americans.

I know many of you won’t vote for the insanity being proposed; but the majority of Americans will. To me, that is intolerable.

I do not think of Americans as noble anymore. I am very saddened by that.

Afterall, who IS John Galt?

84

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
skaz05 wrote:
Just wow man. Scary.

For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. We are quickly approaching the type of world in which I would not choose to live. I’ve considered myself free all my life. I would refuse to be a serf.

I have the money and a small home in a very isolated part of Colorado. My wife and kids love it there and think of it as a vacation home. It may soon be our permanent home. I probably would never stop being an American (which to me was always something very special), but would not want to be around my fellow Americans.

I know many of you won’t vote for the insanity being proposed; but the majority of Americans will. To me, that is intolerable.

I do not think of Americans as noble anymore. I am very saddened by that.

Afterall, who IS John Galt?

[/quote]

Good grief

85

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
skaz05 wrote:
Just wow man. Scary.

For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. We are quickly approaching the type of world in which I would not choose to live. I’ve considered myself free all my life. I would refuse to be a serf.

I have the money and a small home in a very isolated part of Colorado. My wife and kids love it there and think of it as a vacation home. It may soon be our permanent home. I probably would never stop being an American (which to me was always something very special), but would not want to be around my fellow Americans.

I know many of you won’t vote for the insanity being proposed; but the majority of Americans will. To me, that is intolerable.

I do not think of Americans as noble anymore. I am very saddened by that.

Afterall, who IS John Galt?

[/quote]

HH, even as a few people regaurd you (and me too, probably) as a loon here. Does the situation playing out similarilly to atlas shrugged scare the hell out of you too?

86

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
skaz05 wrote:
Just wow man. Scary.

For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. We are quickly approaching the type of world in which I would not choose to live. I’ve considered myself free all my life. I would refuse to be a serf.

I have the money and a small home in a very isolated part of Colorado. My wife and kids love it there and think of it as a vacation home. It may soon be our permanent home. I probably would never stop being an American (which to me was always something very special), but would not want to be around my fellow Americans.

I know many of you won’t vote for the insanity being proposed; but the majority of Americans will. To me, that is intolerable.

I do not think of Americans as noble anymore. I am very saddened by that.

Afterall, who IS John Galt?

[/quote]

Do you see some shocking parallels between atlas shrugged, and today? I find it horrifyingly shocking.

87

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
<<< For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. >>>
[/quote]

I view it the other way.

It tears my heart out watching my fellow citizens take one more giant step toward not being American any more. Every principle and virtue this country was built upon is being twisted and bastardized.

Can you imagine the response from the signers of the constitution if they knew what we were doing with what they left us? They’d be vomiting on all fours wondering why they bothered.

88

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
skaz05 wrote:
Just wow man. Scary.

For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. We are quickly approaching the type of world in which I would not choose to live. I’ve considered myself free all my life. I would refuse to be a serf.

I have the money and a small home in a very isolated part of Colorado. My wife and kids love it there and think of it as a vacation home. It may soon be our permanent home. I probably would never stop being an American (which to me was always something very special), but would not want to be around my fellow Americans.

I know many of you won’t vote for the insanity being proposed; but the majority of Americans will. To me, that is intolerable.

I do not think of Americans as noble anymore. I am very saddened by that.

Afterall, who IS John Galt?

Do you see some shocking parallels between atlas shrugged, and today? I find it horrifyingly shocking.[/quote]

While we’re on this “Look at me! I read a book!” thread, here’s another one this society is starting to resemble that you should be more concerned about: 1984, by George Orwell. Public constantly under (illegal) surveillance? Check. Constantly at war with nations that may or may not actually be threatening? Check. Refusal to allow any civilian oversight of government activities? Check.

89

The parallels between where we are and the plot of Atlas Shrugged are indeed noteworthy. One of the scenes in the book is the president telling Galt to ‘lead us to a peaceful and prosperous industrial society’, to which Galt responds, “At the point of a gun?”.

Let’s be honest: who here would voluntarily pay 40% (or whatever) to our government? I’d wager few or none. It is only under threat of confiscation/imprisonment that any of us pays. Is that any way to run a society? At ‘gunpoint’?

We’re expected to provide jobs, at gunpoint. We’re expected to provide healthcare, at gunpoint. We’re expected to provide food and housing, at gunpoint.

What if we don’t? What if we just Shrug?

�??The pattern keeps recurring because businessmen are willing to take the blame. From capitalism�??s inception, its defenders have been morally disarmed by the widespread view that self-interest is morally suspect, and disinterested service to others is a moral ideal. So each new spate of controls has been grudgingly accepted as a fair price to pay for society�??s toleration of the selfish pursuit of profit.

�??Atlas Shrugged depicted a society in economic collapse due to this recurring cycle, and today�??s parallels are obvious. Government manipulation of money, credit, and lending standards over several decades caused the mess we�??re in. Now, the offered solution is more of the poison that sickened the economy–more bailouts, more cheap money, more government-guaranteed loans, and above all, more regulations.

http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=21639

90

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
skaz05 wrote:
Just wow man. Scary.

For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. We are quickly approaching the type of world in which I would not choose to live. I’ve considered myself free all my life. I would refuse to be a serf.

I have the money and a small home in a very isolated part of Colorado. My wife and kids love it there and think of it as a vacation home. It may soon be our permanent home. I probably would never stop being an American (which to me was always something very special), but would not want to be around my fellow Americans.

I know many of you won’t vote for the insanity being proposed; but the majority of Americans will. To me, that is intolerable.

I do not think of Americans as noble anymore. I am very saddened by that.

Afterall, who IS John Galt?

Do you see some shocking parallels between atlas shrugged, and today? I find it horrifyingly shocking.

While we’re on this “Look at me! I read a book!” thread, here’s another one this society is starting to resemble that you should be more concerned about: 1984, by George Orwell. Public constantly under (illegal) surveillance? Check. Constantly at war with nations that may or may not actually be threatening? Check. Refusal to allow any civilian oversight of government activities? Check.

[/quote]

Do you honestly think that the new baby jesus is going to stop doing any of this?

Hell - he’s going to add to it.

But thanks for playing.

91

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
skaz05 wrote:
Just wow man. Scary.

For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. We are quickly approaching the type of world in which I would not choose to live. I’ve considered myself free all my life. I would refuse to be a serf.

I have the money and a small home in a very isolated part of Colorado. My wife and kids love it there and think of it as a vacation home. It may soon be our permanent home. I probably would never stop being an American (which to me was always something very special), but would not want to be around my fellow Americans.

I know many of you won’t vote for the insanity being proposed; but the majority of Americans will. To me, that is intolerable.

I do not think of Americans as noble anymore. I am very saddened by that.

Afterall, who IS John Galt?

Do you see some shocking parallels between atlas shrugged, and today? I find it horrifyingly shocking.

While we’re on this “Look at me! I read a book!” thread, here’s another one this society is starting to resemble that you should be more concerned about: 1984, by George Orwell. Public constantly under (illegal) surveillance? Check. Constantly at war with nations that may or may not actually be threatening? Check. Refusal to allow any civilian oversight of government activities? Check.

[/quote]

Ever read Animal Farm? ‘…some are more equal than others’ That is what we have to look forward to.

92

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
skaz05 wrote:
Just wow man. Scary.

For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. We are quickly approaching the type of world in which I would not choose to live. I’ve considered myself free all my life. I would refuse to be a serf.

I have the money and a small home in a very isolated part of Colorado. My wife and kids love it there and think of it as a vacation home. It may soon be our permanent home. I probably would never stop being an American (which to me was always something very special), but would not want to be around my fellow Americans.

I know many of you won’t vote for the insanity being proposed; but the majority of Americans will. To me, that is intolerable.

I do not think of Americans as noble anymore. I am very saddened by that.

Afterall, who IS John Galt?

Do you see some shocking parallels between atlas shrugged, and today? I find it horrifyingly shocking.

While we’re on this “Look at me! I read a book!” thread, here’s another one this society is starting to resemble that you should be more concerned about: 1984, by George Orwell. Public constantly under (illegal) surveillance? Check. Constantly at war with nations that may or may not actually be threatening? Check. Refusal to allow any civilian oversight of government activities? Check.

Do you honestly think that the new baby jesus is going to stop doing any of this?

Hell - he’s going to add to it.

But thanks for playing. [/quote]

I don’t think he’s the “baby Jesus,” and I can understand why you’re sick of people fawning over him. Nor do I think that things are going to be fixed instantly, or even necessarily within his first term (if he does win), but I do think he can go a long way toward starting the process.

93

[quote]pat wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
skaz05 wrote:
Just wow man. Scary.

For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. We are quickly approaching the type of world in which I would not choose to live. I’ve considered myself free all my life. I would refuse to be a serf.

I have the money and a small home in a very isolated part of Colorado. My wife and kids love it there and think of it as a vacation home. It may soon be our permanent home. I probably would never stop being an American (which to me was always something very special), but would not want to be around my fellow Americans.

I know many of you won’t vote for the insanity being proposed; but the majority of Americans will. To me, that is intolerable.

I do not think of Americans as noble anymore. I am very saddened by that.

Afterall, who IS John Galt?

Do you see some shocking parallels between atlas shrugged, and today? I find it horrifyingly shocking.

While we’re on this “Look at me! I read a book!” thread, here’s another one this society is starting to resemble that you should be more concerned about: 1984, by George Orwell. Public constantly under (illegal) surveillance? Check. Constantly at war with nations that may or may not actually be threatening? Check. Refusal to allow any civilian oversight of government activities? Check.

Ever read Animal Farm? ‘…some are more equal than others’ That is what we have to look forward to.
[/quote]

Yes, I have read Animal Farm, and I find it ironic that you would mention it since it works better as an analogy for the current state of affairs than any “socialism” which would come to pass under an Obama administration.

I truthfully have no diea why any of you think you would stand to lose anything if Obama were elected. How many of you are in the top 1% of earners?

94

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
skaz05 wrote:
Just wow man. Scary.

For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. We are quickly approaching the type of world in which I would not choose to live. I’ve considered myself free all my life. I would refuse to be a serf.

I have the money and a small home in a very isolated part of Colorado. My wife and kids love it there and think of it as a vacation home. It may soon be our permanent home. I probably would never stop being an American (which to me was always something very special), but would not want to be around my fellow Americans.

I know many of you won’t vote for the insanity being proposed; but the majority of Americans will. To me, that is intolerable.

I do not think of Americans as noble anymore. I am very saddened by that.

Afterall, who IS John Galt?

Do you see some shocking parallels between atlas shrugged, and today? I find it horrifyingly shocking.

While we’re on this “Look at me! I read a book!” thread, here’s another one this society is starting to resemble that you should be more concerned about: 1984, by George Orwell. Public constantly under (illegal) surveillance? Check. Constantly at war with nations that may or may not actually be threatening? Check. Refusal to allow any civilian oversight of government activities? Check.

Do you honestly think that the new baby jesus is going to stop doing any of this?

Hell - he’s going to add to it.

But thanks for playing.

I don’t think he’s the “baby Jesus,” and I can understand why you’re sick of people fawning over him. Nor do I think that things are going to be fixed instantly, or even necessarily within his first term (if he does win), but I do think he can go a long way toward starting the process.
[/quote]

Is it Ironic to anyone else that the guy saying this has a fascist/communist style Obama poster avatar?

95

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
pat wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
skaz05 wrote:
Just wow man. Scary.

For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. We are quickly approaching the type of world in which I would not choose to live. I’ve considered myself free all my life. I would refuse to be a serf.

I have the money and a small home in a very isolated part of Colorado. My wife and kids love it there and think of it as a vacation home. It may soon be our permanent home. I probably would never stop being an American (which to me was always something very special), but would not want to be around my fellow Americans.

I know many of you won’t vote for the insanity being proposed; but the majority of Americans will. To me, that is intolerable.

I do not think of Americans as noble anymore. I am very saddened by that.

Afterall, who IS John Galt?

Do you see some shocking parallels between atlas shrugged, and today? I find it horrifyingly shocking.

While we’re on this “Look at me! I read a book!” thread, here’s another one this society is starting to resemble that you should be more concerned about: 1984, by George Orwell. Public constantly under (illegal) surveillance? Check. Constantly at war with nations that may or may not actually be threatening? Check. Refusal to allow any civilian oversight of government activities? Check.

Ever read Animal Farm? ‘…some are more equal than others’ That is what we have to look forward to.

Yes, I have read Animal Farm, and I find it ironic that you would mention it since it works better as an analogy for the current state of affairs than any “socialism” which would come to pass under an Obama administration.

I truthfully have no diea why any of you think you would stand to lose anything if Obama were elected. How many of you are in the top 1% of earners?
[/quote]

So now you know what Obama would do?

If the guy that owns the company I work for (in the top 1%) can’t afford me anymore because of taxes, then yes, I’ll lose because of that tax. Everything economically is related. I’m an engineer, it just makes it more economical to send my job to India or China.

96

I like the phrase, the new baby Jesus’. That’s hilarious and so spot on it’s funny, in a cosmic kind of way.

97

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
pat wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
skaz05 wrote:
Just wow man. Scary.

For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. We are quickly approaching the type of world in which I would not choose to live. I’ve considered myself free all my life. I would refuse to be a serf.

I have the money and a small home in a very isolated part of Colorado. My wife and kids love it there and think of it as a vacation home. It may soon be our permanent home. I probably would never stop being an American (which to me was always something very special), but would not want to be around my fellow Americans.

I know many of you won’t vote for the insanity being proposed; but the majority of Americans will. To me, that is intolerable.

I do not think of Americans as noble anymore. I am very saddened by that.

Afterall, who IS John Galt?

Do you see some shocking parallels between atlas shrugged, and today? I find it horrifyingly shocking.

While we’re on this “Look at me! I read a book!” thread, here’s another one this society is starting to resemble that you should be more concerned about: 1984, by George Orwell. Public constantly under (illegal) surveillance? Check. Constantly at war with nations that may or may not actually be threatening? Check. Refusal to allow any civilian oversight of government activities? Check.

Ever read Animal Farm? ‘…some are more equal than others’ That is what we have to look forward to.

Yes, I have read Animal Farm, and I find it ironic that you would mention it since it works better as an analogy for the current state of affairs than any “socialism” which would come to pass under an Obama administration.

I truthfully have no diea why any of you think you would stand to lose anything if Obama were elected. How many of you are in the top 1% of earners?

So now you know what Obama would do?

If the guy that owns the company I work for (in the top 1%) can’t afford me anymore because of taxes, then yes, I’ll lose because of that tax. Everything economically is related. I’m an engineer, it just makes it more economical to send my job to India or China.

[/quote]

Fortunately, my company had a really bad experience with India that cost them millions of dollars. Even in the higher tax bracket I doubt they’ll go back. They’ll just shave a few jobs to cover it. Brilliant this whole “Tax the rich” motif. So instead of earning it, I could hold my hand out for far, far less of it in the unemployment line. I sure can’t wait.

98

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
pat wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
skaz05 wrote:
Just wow man. Scary.

For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. We are quickly approaching the type of world in which I would not choose to live. I’ve considered myself free all my life. I would refuse to be a serf.

I have the money and a small home in a very isolated part of Colorado. My wife and kids love it there and think of it as a vacation home. It may soon be our permanent home. I probably would never stop being an American (which to me was always something very special), but would not want to be around my fellow Americans.

I know many of you won’t vote for the insanity being proposed; but the majority of Americans will. To me, that is intolerable.

I do not think of Americans as noble anymore. I am very saddened by that.

Afterall, who IS John Galt?

Do you see some shocking parallels between atlas shrugged, and today? I find it horrifyingly shocking.

While we’re on this “Look at me! I read a book!” thread, here’s another one this society is starting to resemble that you should be more concerned about: 1984, by George Orwell. Public constantly under (illegal) surveillance? Check. Constantly at war with nations that may or may not actually be threatening? Check. Refusal to allow any civilian oversight of government activities? Check.

Ever read Animal Farm? ‘…some are more equal than others’ That is what we have to look forward to.

Yes, I have read Animal Farm, and I find it ironic that you would mention it since it works better as an analogy for the current state of affairs than any “socialism” which would come to pass under an Obama administration.

I truthfully have no diea why any of you think you would stand to lose anything if Obama were elected. How many of you are in the top 1% of earners?
[/quote]

While I am against the patriot act in every way the patriot act is due to expire, or maybe it already has. Which is great, but because the republicans did things I did not approve of, does not mean I will willing welcome it with open arms from democrats.
At least in the republican sense it was done out of panic over terrorism. That does not make it right, but it’s more understandable than state mandated neighborliness and oversight over my life because the government thinks that’s better. I can take care of myself, I don’t need the government to hold my hand.

Handouts makes slaves of people, I refuse to be a slave.

99

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
skaz05 wrote:
Just wow man. Scary.

For the first time in my life, I don’t like being an American. If people vote for this sort of society, then I have lost commonality with my fellow citizens. We are quickly approaching the type of world in which I would not choose to live. I’ve considered myself free all my life. I would refuse to be a serf.

I have the money and a small home in a very isolated part of Colorado. My wife and kids love it there and think of it as a vacation home. It may soon be our permanent home. I probably would never stop being an American (which to me was always something very special), but would not want to be around my fellow Americans.

I know many of you won’t vote for the insanity being proposed; but the majority of Americans will. To me, that is intolerable.

I do not think of Americans as noble anymore. I am very saddened by that.

Afterall, who IS John Galt?

Do you see some shocking parallels between atlas shrugged, and today? I find it horrifyingly shocking.

While we’re on this “Look at me! I read a book!” thread, here’s another one this society is starting to resemble that you should be more concerned about: 1984, by George Orwell. Public constantly under (illegal) surveillance? Check. Constantly at war with nations that may or may not actually be threatening? Check. Refusal to allow any civilian oversight of government activities? Check.

[/quote]

already have. good book, also.

100

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
I truthfully have no diea why any of you think you would stand to lose anything if Obama were elected. How many of you are in the top 1% of earners?
[/quote]

I am not, but my company is. If they have to pay more, then they will make cuts, period. Companies have to make cuts or drive up prices. So you either increase unemployment or inflation, how is that hard to get?

This is not bubble-up economics, it is wealth redistribution. I rather they increase the welfare checks then take from the rich and give to the poor…It’s a formula for disaster.