H Factor, do you think the only difference between men and women are genitals? You keep bringing up that point.
Second thought. Where abortion is legal, when a woman gets pregnant from a man that was not looking for a long term commitment, why does she get to choose if she keeps the baby? Man and woman get pregnant, man doesn’t want to have the kid (it’s half his) and suggest abortion. Woman says no she is having the baby. At that point what gives the woman a right to collect child support? Other side of the equation if they get pregnant and the man wants the child but the woman doesn’t because it will interfere with her career or school or whatever, why does she get to have the abortion if the man wants to raise the baby on his own?
H Factor, do you think the only difference between men and women are genitals?
[/quote]
Do the differences make one sex more of a person than the other? I think that’s the main point.
As far as pregnancy goes: a man knows the score before he gives his sperm away. Or are you saying he retains ownership of his sperm?
H Factor, do you think the only difference between men and women are genitals?
[/quote]
Do the differences make one sex more of a person than the other? I think that’s the main point.[/quote]
Of course it doesn’t. If that’s the main point it’s pretty pointless. Both men and women are people that’s a fact. But, men and women are different in more ways other than their genitals and restroom practices. The differences in men and women can play a role in many professions where equal pay is wanted. That’s all I’m saying. Women shouldn’t be treated as unequal, but they should not be given the same pay as male counter parts because they have a vajayjay either.
[quote]
As far as pregnancy goes: a man knows the score before he gives his sperm away. Or are you saying he retains ownership of his sperm? [/quote]
And so does the woman when she catches that sperm. What I am saying is why does the woman have all the rights when it comes to aborting a baby?
Equal pay is real though, insofar as exactly equal work is not compensated equally (which maybe can’t be measured objectively).[/quote]
Interesting the Daily Beast of all sources ran this article written by a woman.
[/quote]
Yeah I have known the 70-something cent thing is bullshit for a long time. If more women are majoring in education and more men are majoring in finance, there you have it.
Truth be told, though, there are studies that suggest that women do make less than men for the exact same work, particularly mid-and-late career work. But, like I said, these things are close to impossible to measure without bias.[/quote]
True.
Sowell goes into this a lot in Economic Facts and Fallacy. He pretty much concludes that it is life choices (namely women are more likely to sacrifice their career for a period of time to head the family head role, which in turn allows their partner to maximize their earning potential. So in essence the woman is investing in her partner’s career more than her own.) Because when he looked at data sets that compared “never married” women with men and “never married” men, the income disparity all but disappeared. [/quote]
I hadn’t heard this. Will look into it. If biology is to blame, then it isn’t a problem at all. Either way the number certainly didn’t belong in the SOTU.[/quote]
More on that, and even some stats from other countries which show the impact of more generous maternity and childcare policies - more women still choose to work less, and see being part-time to raise kids as an ideal. And the “opting out by mid-career college educated wives”. That describes me, and nearly all of my friends.
Lot of people inventing positions I didn’t say. I guess one could quote me and talk about a post of mine, but maybe it is easier to invent positions for me so I can be attacked for someone else’s thoughts?
The only thing worse than a fem nazi who thinks we need to change manhole covers to person whole covers is ridiculous people who try and pretend our society is filled with all these female privileges as if a man can’t make it in 2014 because society is so setup for females.
Nah, not worse or better…they are the exact same. Equally annoying.
H Factor, do you think the only difference between men and women are genitals?
[/quote]
Do the differences make one sex more of a person than the other? I think that’s the main point.[/quote]
Of course it doesn’t. If that’s the main point it’s pretty pointless. Both men and women are people that’s a fact. But, men and women are different in more ways other than their genitals and restroom practices. The differences in men and women can play a role in many professions where equal pay is wanted. That’s all I’m saying. Women shouldn’t be treated as unequal, but they should not be given the same pay as male counter parts because they have a vajayjay either.
So in other words talking about stuff I never said? The point of the genitals talk was not to say that was it for differences but how are those differences justification for unequal treatment. It isn’t right for men or women!
As far as abortion it doesn’t have anything to do with anything I have said. It should be pretty obvious that as a man I can’t get pregnant nor can I have an abortion therefore obvious differences will exist towards decisions about those. That may not be fair, but until a woman can fuck you and get you pregnant differences are bound to exist. That may not be fair, but I can’t get pregnant! I can’t make it be my body.
And again I never said things need to be the same in all manners. This would prove impossible in some cases anyways.
I don’t think any of my original posts in here said any of the things people want to pin on me, so no one quoted them and people like Orion just said they a bunch while talking to me. I’m far from a women’s studies type guy, but the other side I’m male and don’t have a chance because of female privileges is just as much of a little bitch copout as the fem nazis.
The only thing worse than a fem nazi who thinks we need to change manhole covers to person whole covers is ridiculous people who try and pretend our society is filled with all these female privileges as if a man can’t make it in 2014 because society is so setup for females.
[/quote]
Certain specific gripes aside, the men’s rights movement–the real idiots who seem never to believe that a man has hit or raped a woman, who see themselves as the perpetual victims, who see a feminist conspiracy when their son is suspended for biting another kid in school–is just another (and probably the most egregious) manifestation of the utter pussification of the American male.
It’s so much easier to tell yourself that your own inadequacies–sexual, social, financial, familial–are rooted in oppression than it is to look your failure in the eyes and claim it as your own. Related to this is an increasing bitterness I’v noted among people whom I used to hang out with in high school. “Women are tramps, don’t trust a single one” really means, “I am desperate and unappealing and sexually inadequate, so I date low-class hoodrats and then I’m shocked when they go out and get themselves some strange.”
H Factor, do you think the only difference between men and women are genitals?
[/quote]
Do the differences make one sex more of a person than the other? I think that’s the main point.[/quote]
Of course it doesn’t. If that’s the main point it’s pretty pointless. Both men and women are people that’s a fact. But, men and women are different in more ways other than their genitals and restroom practices. The differences in men and women can play a role in many professions where equal pay is wanted. That’s all I’m saying. Women shouldn’t be treated as unequal, but they should not be given the same pay as male counter parts because they have a vajayjay either.
So in other words talking about stuff I never said? The point of the genitals talk was not to say that was it for differences but how are those differences justification for unequal treatment. It isn’t right for men or women!
As far as abortion it doesn’t have anything to do with anything I have said. It should be pretty obvious that as a man I can’t get pregnant nor can I have an abortion therefore obvious differences will exist towards decisions about those. That may not be fair, but until a woman can fuck you and get you pregnant differences are bound to exist. That may not be fair, but I can’t get pregnant! I can’t make it be my body.
And again I never said things need to be the same in all manners. This would prove impossible in some cases anyways.
I don’t think any of my original posts in here said any of the things people want to pin on me, so no one quoted them and people like Orion just said they a bunch while talking to me. I’m far from a women’s studies type guy, but the other side I’m male and don’t have a chance because of female privileges is just as much of a little bitch copout as the fem nazis. [/quote]
In fairness to you I didn’t read all of the post in this thread. I read some when it was started and just revisited it yesterday. I saw your multiple post about “just because men have dicks and women have vaginas” angle and asked you a question. And threw in the abortion topic as an example. You responded, so I responded.
The only thing worse than a fem nazi who thinks we need to change manhole covers to person whole covers is ridiculous people who try and pretend our society is filled with all these female privileges as if a man can’t make it in 2014 because society is so setup for females.
[/quote]
Certain specific gripes aside, the men’s rights movement–the real idiots who seem never to believe that a man has hit or raped a woman, who see themselves as the perpetual victims, who see a feminist conspiracy when their son is suspended for biting another kid in school–is just another (and probably the most egregious) manifestation of the utter pussification of the American male.
It’s so much easier to tell yourself that your own inadequacies–sexual, social, financial, familial–are rooted in oppression than it is to look your failure in the eyes and claim it as your own. Related to this is an increasing bitterness I’v noted among people whom I used to hang out with in high school. “Women are tramps, don’t trust a single one” really means, “I am desperate and unappealing and sexually inadequate, so I date low-class hoodrats and then I’m shocked when they go out and get themselves some strange.”[/quote]
I agree with some of these views. I have areas of my life that I work to improve on. I enjoy trying to improve myself in all areas of my life and feel that gives me the best possible route to be the best me I can be.
[quote]
“Women are tramps, don’t trust a single one” really means, “I am desperate and unappealing and sexually inadequate, so I date low-class hoodrats and then I’m shocked when they go out and get themselves some strange.”[/quote]
There are several things I disagree with this statement.
To lump all people into one category IMO is foolish
Some men with those views are in an environment where their choices in women, the vast majority fall into this category.
So to say their views are because of their own faults is not always accurate. It reminds of a game or angle some shady women play. They will be cheating or scheming, and when the man comes to them with their concerns about things or actions, the woman plays this same tactic and says it’s the man’s own insecurities that are causing him to feel this way.
There are several things I disagree with this statement.
To lump all people into one category IMO is foolish
Some men with those views are in an environment where their choices in women, the vast majority fall into this category.
So to say their views are because of their own faults is not always accurate. It reminds of a game or angle some shady women play. They will be cheating or scheming, and when the man comes to them with their concerns about things or actions, the woman plays this same tactic and says it’s the man’s own insecurities that are causing him to feel this way.
[/quote]
Indeed, I specifically mentioned people I know because I didn’t mean to generalize. Obviously there is every stripe and type of situation under the sun.
What I am saying is that I’ve noticed an increasingly embittered strain among guys I’ve known who are spectacularly mediocre in every respect and yet believe that their problems have more to do with cultural oppression than with their own weaknesses.
Edit: By the way, I haven’t read through this thread and don’t know who is saying what about what, so it goes without saying that none of this relates to anybody on here. I’m just giving my observation of what I think is a sad weakness that is gathering momentum in this country.
Double edit: And, if you think about it, when I talk about people who say “women are tramps,” I’m attacking that same sort of generalization–“I dated this woman and this happened to me, and now I’m bitter toward every human being with a vagina.” We all know that this is a very common sentiment, and what I’m saying is that’s just more unmasculine whining.
Equal pay is real though, insofar as exactly equal work is not compensated equally (which maybe can’t be measured objectively).[/quote]
Interesting the Daily Beast of all sources ran this article written by a woman.
[/quote]
Yeah I have known the 70-something cent thing is bullshit for a long time. If more women are majoring in education and more men are majoring in finance, there you have it.
Truth be told, though, there are studies that suggest that women do make less than men for the exact same work, particularly mid-and-late career work. But, like I said, these things are close to impossible to measure without bias.[/quote]
True.
Sowell goes into this a lot in Economic Facts and Fallacy. He pretty much concludes that it is life choices (namely women are more likely to sacrifice their career for a period of time to head the family head role, which in turn allows their partner to maximize their earning potential. So in essence the woman is investing in her partner’s career more than her own.) Because when he looked at data sets that compared “never married” women with men and “never married” men, the income disparity all but disappeared. [/quote]
I hadn’t heard this. Will look into it. If biology is to blame, then it isn’t a problem at all. Either way the number certainly didn’t belong in the SOTU.[/quote]
More on that, and even some stats from other countries which show the impact of more generous maternity and childcare policies - more women still choose to work less, and see being part-time to raise kids as an ideal. And the “opting out by mid-career college educated wives”. That describes me, and nearly all of my friends.
[/quote]
That’s a good article. If, after adjusting for hours worked and all the rest, the pay is equal, then there is obviously no problem.
The only thing worse than a fem nazi who thinks we need to change manhole covers to person whole covers is ridiculous people who try and pretend our society is filled with all these female privileges as if a man can’t make it in 2014 because society is so setup for females.
[/quote]
Certain specific gripes aside, the men’s rights movement–the real idiots who seem never to believe that a man has hit or raped a woman, who see themselves as the perpetual victims, who see a feminist conspiracy when their son is suspended for biting another kid in school–is just another (and probably the most egregious) manifestation of the utter pussification of the American male.
It’s so much easier to tell yourself that your own inadequacies–sexual, social, financial, familial–are rooted in oppression than it is to look your failure in the eyes and claim it as your own. Related to this is an increasing bitterness I’v noted among people whom I used to hang out with in high school. “Women are tramps, don’t trust a single one” really means, “I am desperate and unappealing and sexually inadequate, so I date low-class hoodrats and then I’m shocked when they go out and get themselves some strange.”[/quote]
I agree with some of these views. I have areas of my life that I work to improve on. I enjoy trying to improve myself in all areas of my life and feel that gives me the best possible route to be the best me I can be.
Generalizing always leads to poor conclusions. That’s why i tried asking orion who “they” was. Its not the women in my family. Its not my fiance. We got weird ass fem crazy people and apparently we have woe is me women get all the breaks and advantages “men.” I originally asked why we had a war because I don’t think anyone disagrees with some things I’ve said. Instead people just made up people to argue against which is why I was wondering why everyone was quoting me like I was in the man basher brigade. I’m not in that club nor am I in the oh man women get everything club either.
I think both camps are the exact same whininess and sense of entitlement. Like smh said, people wanting someone to blame for their own inadequacies
There are several things I disagree with this statement.
To lump all people into one category IMO is foolish
Some men with those views are in an environment where their choices in women, the vast majority fall into this category.
So to say their views are because of their own faults is not always accurate. It reminds of a game or angle some shady women play. They will be cheating or scheming, and when the man comes to them with their concerns about things or actions, the woman plays this same tactic and says it’s the man’s own insecurities that are causing him to feel this way.
[/quote]
Indeed, I specifically mentioned people I know because I didn’t mean to generalize. Obviously there is every stripe and type of situation under the sun.
What I am saying is that I’ve noticed an increasingly embittered strain among guys I’ve known who are spectacularly mediocre in every respect and yet believe that their problems have more to do with cultural oppression than with their own weaknesses.
Edit: By the way, I haven’t read through this thread and don’t know who is saying what about what, so it goes without saying that none of this relates to anybody on here. I’m just giving my observation of what I think is a sad weakness that is gathering momentum in this country.[/quote]
The make me a sandwich woman type crowd is generally uneducated and incapable of doing anything correct so they need to act all big and bad because they have more in common with little boys than men. It’s a true problem in the areas of Kansas I’m around. It’s welfare and drug abusing dumbasses who have to belittle women because their own life is such a joke they must deflect attention from it.
Many of these guys are jealous of women because in this area a lot of the women are more intelligent, harder workers, and better decision makers.
More and more I think the issues with some of our men is they are incapable of looking in the mirror and grinding out some real work. I wish this wasn’t the case, but around me I see very few “good” men.
Well this is an interesting thread. It instantly reminded me of an incident I had this Thursday in my developmental bio lab with my female lab partner. I do not know if it is entirely related to the topic at hand but I feel it is.
So: We were examining the process of fertilization between sea urchin gametes and I was preparing a slide of sea urchin eggs for her to observe on her own. To do this you have to make a circle with Vaseline on the slide before you place the cover slip otherwise you risk crushing the eggs. So I make a circle and ask her “Is this good enough” I might have added for you I can’t remember and she laughed hahahaa and said
“I think it is amusing that your are asking me for approval”. To which I replied “This slide is for you not me I could care less.”
But I really was angered by what she said and tried to analyze the underlying meaning of what she meant. Why is it amusing that I am asking her opinion? And why would she think I am seeking her approval?
Was asking her opinion not a masculine thing to do? Even though the slide was for her to view the process of fertilization because I had already seen and done my own.
Maybe the girl is just a bitch and just felt like making me feel inadequate or something I don’t know.
I definitely thought of alphaness and masculinity and thought I could have just made the slide for her not asked her opinion of it and given it to her or rather not even tried to help her at all and done nothing. That probably would have been more in tune to the masculine archetype I try to embrace. Either way it was an unusual experience because I do try to adhere to the masculine ideal and these sort of interactions with women are a rare occurrence for me. I do try to be kind and fair especially to people I don’t know such as this girl.
The only thing worse than a fem nazi who thinks we need to change manhole covers to person whole covers is ridiculous people who try and pretend our society is filled with all these female privileges as if a man can’t make it in 2014 because society is so setup for females.
[/quote]
Certain specific gripes aside, the men’s rights movement–the real idiots who seem never to believe that a man has hit or raped a woman, who see themselves as the perpetual victims, who see a feminist conspiracy when their son is suspended for biting another kid in school–is just another (and probably the most egregious) manifestation of the utter pussification of the American male.
It’s so much easier to tell yourself that your own inadequacies–sexual, social, financial, familial–are rooted in oppression than it is to look your failure in the eyes and claim it as your own. Related to this is an increasing bitterness I’v noted among people whom I used to hang out with in high school. “Women are tramps, don’t trust a single one” really means, “I am desperate and unappealing and sexually inadequate, so I date low-class hoodrats and then I’m shocked when they go out and get themselves some strange.”[/quote]
I agree with some of these views. I have areas of my life that I work to improve on. I enjoy trying to improve myself in all areas of my life and feel that gives me the best possible route to be the best me I can be.
Generalizing always leads to poor conclusions. That’s why i tried asking orion who “they” was. Its not the women in my family. Its not my fiance. We got weird ass fem crazy people and apparently we have woe is me women get all the breaks and advantages “men.” I originally asked why we had a war because I don’t think anyone disagrees with some things I’ve said. Instead people just made up people to argue against which is why I was wondering why everyone was quoting me like I was in the man basher brigade. I’m not in that club nor am I in the oh man women get everything club either.
I think both camps are the exact same whininess and sense of entitlement. Like smh said, people wanting someone to blame for their own inadequacies [/quote]
“They” are most women in todays world because even though they might not push for special treatment they happily accept it.
And no "I think both camps are the exact same whininess and sense of entitlement " is BS as good as that might make you feel .
Women can be all strong and independent as much as they want, as long as I get to keep my money.
The only thing worse than a fem nazi who thinks we need to change manhole covers to person whole covers is ridiculous people who try and pretend our society is filled with all these female privileges as if a man can’t make it in 2014 because society is so setup for females.
[/quote]
Certain specific gripes aside, the men’s rights movement–the real idiots who seem never to believe that a man has hit or raped a woman, who see themselves as the perpetual victims, who see a feminist conspiracy when their son is suspended for biting another kid in school–is just another (and probably the most egregious) manifestation of the utter pussification of the American male.
It’s so much easier to tell yourself that your own inadequacies–sexual, social, financial, familial–are rooted in oppression than it is to look your failure in the eyes and claim it as your own. Related to this is an increasing bitterness I’v noted among people whom I used to hang out with in high school. “Women are tramps, don’t trust a single one” really means, “I am desperate and unappealing and sexually inadequate, so I date low-class hoodrats and then I’m shocked when they go out and get themselves some strange.”[/quote]
I agree with some of these views. I have areas of my life that I work to improve on. I enjoy trying to improve myself in all areas of my life and feel that gives me the best possible route to be the best me I can be.
Generalizing always leads to poor conclusions. That’s why i tried asking orion who “they” was. Its not the women in my family. Its not my fiance. We got weird ass fem crazy people and apparently we have woe is me women get all the breaks and advantages “men.” I originally asked why we had a war because I don’t think anyone disagrees with some things I’ve said. Instead people just made up people to argue against which is why I was wondering why everyone was quoting me like I was in the man basher brigade. I’m not in that club nor am I in the oh man women get everything club either.
I think both camps are the exact same whininess and sense of entitlement. Like smh said, people wanting someone to blame for their own inadequacies [/quote]
“They” are most women in todays world because even though they might not push for special treatment they happily accept it.
And no "I think both camps are the exact same whininess and sense of entitlement " is BS as good as that might make you feel .
Women can be all strong and independent as much as they want, as long as I get to keep my money.
Get that?
They leech off of me, not the other way around. [/quote]
It makes sense to hate women for taxation. I remember when people complained about taxes one hundred years ago and it was all because of women then as well. Nothing logically wrong with being mad at an entire sex over taxes because only one sex benefits from them.
Is it safe to assume when I asked you for sources for some of your stats that they were either made up or completely faulty at best?
When someone reasons with me and proves me wrong, I change my stance. So prove me wrong. I don’t think I’m the one coming off close minded on this issue.
You also sound like a coworker of mine who has had two divorces. Women take all my money type stuff from him all the time. Do you have some context for why one should hate vaginas as you seem to hate?
[quote]A-rod wrote:
Well this is an interesting thread. It instantly reminded me of an incident I had this Thursday in my developmental bio lab with my female lab partner. I do not know if it is entirely related to the topic at hand but I feel it is.
So: We were examining the process of fertilization between sea urchin gametes and I was preparing a slide of sea urchin eggs for her to observe on her own. To do this you have to make a circle with Vaseline on the slide before you place the cover slip otherwise you risk crushing the eggs. So I make a circle and ask her “Is this good enough” I might have added for you I can’t remember and she laughed hahahaa and said
“I think it is amusing that your are asking me for approval”. To which I replied “This slide is for you not me I could care less.”
But I really was angered by what she said and tried to analyze the underlying meaning of what she meant. Why is it amusing that I am asking her opinion? And why would she think I am seeking her approval?
Was asking her opinion not a masculine thing to do? Even though the slide was for her to view the process of fertilization because I had already seen and done my own.
Maybe the girl is just a bitch and just felt like making me feel inadequate or something I don’t know.
I definitely thought of alphaness and masculinity and thought I could have just made the slide for her not asked her opinion of it and given it to her or rather not even tried to help her at all and done nothing. That probably would have been more in tune to the masculine archetype I try to embrace. Either way it was an unusual experience because I do try to adhere to the masculine ideal and these sort of interactions with women are a rare occurrence for me. I do try to be kind and fair especially to people I don’t know such as this girl.[/quote]
why did you make it for her?
why did you ask if it is good enough? If she didn’t like it she could redo it herself.
