A cautionary tale for those who identify with the Democratic Party

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

Zero chance anyone has the time to read that.

To answer one of your questions, the western world (1st world) holds Israel to a higher standard than Hamas/Syria/houthis/KSA/etc because Israel is part of the western/1st world. It’s not because we are antisemitic and have it out for Israel, it’s because we have higher expectations for anyone with their stature in the world.

Additionally, the Yemen, Syria, Hamas/Hezbollah conflicts are all between near-peer adversaries, or against a Goliath military power. Israel massively outclasses Hamas, and has the ability to temper and restrain their own actions without much risk. While in those other conflicts every advantage possible is needed to survive and win.

Higher expectations placed on Israel are part of being a western 1st world country and military power.

22

So Saudi Arabia has a higher per capita income than some first world countries and has the second strongest millitary out of 57 muslim countries

Israel is constantly attacked and has constantly been attacked by its arab neighbours

Hamas just sent a suicide bomber who blew himself up prematurelt and has vowed to continue doing so… they’ve also vowed to kill any tourist overseas/overseas resident with Israeli heritage

They mention genocide in their charter

Have shot over 20k rockets into Israel since the early 2000s

Do you expect israel to do nothing after Oct 7? “Oh they shouldn’t attack because Hamas hides behind civillians and fires from civillians infrastructure. If israel tries to get rid of Hamas civillians die”

Hamas specified they’d repeat Oct 7 “again and again and again… 1000 times over” on a grander scale until Israel is annihilated and going by their charter “all the jews” are purged off the land making it in line with the rest of the arab world

Does Pol Pot get off ligher for killing millions of Cambodians because he ruled a third world country?

What about the Rwandan genocide? Less important because it happened in a third world country?

About china… currently putting uhyghur muslims in concentration camps, harvesting organs and forcibly sterilising them

We have videos of blindfolded, shackled uhyghur muslims being loaded onto train carts… looks very similar to nazi germany

There are 12 million uhyghur muslims in china with most being sent to these camps

It’s possible they won’t exist in 5-10 years yet no one bats an eye…

China has a powerful millitary and is no longer considered third world… many chinese billionaires exist… although some have dissapeared after complaining about the CCP

I don’t for a second buy the lame excuse of Israel being held to a double standard

Jews are always held to double or triple standards

I’d suggest reading what I have to say… its a 6 minute read tops… if you don’t have time… don’t respond…

As if third world status makes room for female genital mutilation, the existsnce of a REAL rape culture, beheading homosexuals, systemic and widespready belief in radical jihadist groups… and it excuses what so many islamic immigrants have done upon immigrating to western countriee

The creation of racist ethnic monocultures/tightly knit communities that essentially impose a style of gender apartheid, terrorist attacks, rapes

The 2016 NYE rape of 1500 german women in the city of Cologne, Germany perpetuated almost exclusively by men of muslim descent from Arab and muslim countries who came in as refugees

But zionists are the ones who need to be held to a very high standard

In Gaza the IDF generally calls every single citizen with a phone number once and leaves 2 voice mails… drops flyers warning of impending evacuation

Civilliana die because Hamas forbids them from evacuating… it’s Israels fault

Hamas hijacks aid shipments… Israels fault

Hoatages die… Israels fault…

Absurd…

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23

FWIW, I never said or even hinted at Israel being in the wrong, or not having a right to defend itself. Simply explaining why many people hold Israel to a higher standard than it’s neighbors. Related: I think the USA should be held to a higher humanitarian standard than Russia.

24

Which is not true at all. What standard was the US held to when it invaded Afghanistan and Iraq? How many Iraqi civilians were killed?

And if someone holds Arabs to a lower standard, then that is racist against them.

Stop being an apologist for antisemitism.

25

Faaar too many civilians were killed in those wars, and 20years later, it is pretty much universally regretted by the American public.

One of the lessons from those clusterfucks was the problem of starting a war with zero realistic plan for what comes next… and how to stabilize the country following the end of formal fighting. Israel seems to be following down a similar path which rings alarm bells with her allies.

26

Fair enough

You are the first person who has told me Israel should be held to a different standard without also implying Hamas were in the right

Forgive me for my abrasive attitude

I spend a lot of my time arguing with hamas sympathisers… many of whom see it exactly as i’ve outlined

They have this idea Israel should sit back and do nothing because Israel doesn’t have a right to exist or some will argue the civillians should protect Hamas from being fired upon

Yes in theory Israel should be held to a higher standard IF Hamas didn’t routinely violate international law so fragrantly.

The USA is held to a higher standard than Russia but that doesn’t excuse Russia for commiting crimes against humanity

Russian soldiers were absolutely savage during the initial attack on Ukraine. Raping civillians, torture, beheading soldiers

Russia should absolutely be shunned by the western world for this… I saw one video of Ukranian soldiers in captured territory clearing a house. The solider finds a paralyzed, emaciated old woman presumably lying in her own fluids who can’t get up

Her Russian sons and comrades have abandoned her… no effort to transport her or carry her out.

Just “the Ukranians are coming… goodbye”

Somehow she was so radicalised she still seemed to take offence when the solider said “we won’t leave you like your comrades did… we aren’t Russian” while handing her water

The soldier tells her he is calling for backup/reinforcements and promises she will be transported to a hospital.

From looking at the video it would appear this woman probably didn’t make it… she looked like she was straight out of a concentration camp. Doubtful the soldiers Russian soldiers even fed her…

27

Israel is in a nearly impossible situation. My only two critiques of Israel are that, I think, they should be erring on the side of avoiding civilian casualties more than they already do, even if it means letting a few Hamas terrorist live to fight another day. And I also think their propaganda machine fucking sucks- they need to ramp up publicizing the humanitarian aid they currently give to Gaza and show how Hamas steals it, and how they try to avoid civilian casualties and suffering.

I also think they need to publicize there end game, cause right now it’s just “bounce the rubble till Hamas surrenders”… Something that will never happen.

28

Why? There is no standard; it’s war, people die. How many civilians were killed in Dresden or Tokyo? The idea that war can be waged in a nice, pleasant, clean manner is a problem. War is horrible and immoral regardless of how it is waged. Trying to make it palatable is evil.

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29

Say Israel WAS commiting a genocide

Vs one of the muslim countries commiting another genocide…

Who stands more to lose? Who suffers more?

There’s so much dislike towards jews… if we actually commit a genocide it is the END of us… therefore Israel needs to be held to a higher standard for the sake of the jews… see what I mean?

30

True

Hamas will take every single Palestinian with them if it means delegitimising and destroying Israel.

I was watching an interview of a Gazan mother covered from head to toe in black

“We must teach our children to wage jihad as that is the righteous path! We all die one day… why not die as a martyr and avoid delaying the inevitable”

Then she said some shit about it being a Gazan childs destiny to kill jews. It was put on as a segment where the political right wing is heavily criticisng our left wing government for bringing in 3,000 Gazans who applied for Australian visas seemingly at random without questioning them… our counter terrorism force even went as far as to essentially specify it’s fine if these refugees support Hamas

So… stupid… arguably one of the most radicalised places on earth. So radical the middle east won’t even let them in… what do oppressive islamic theocracies know that the western world doesn’t?

Why is it countries like Egypt and Saudi Arabia have made peace with Israel yet Palestine after refusing official statehood six times won’t make peace? Perhaps making peace is economically beneficial… perhaps it’d be benefitial for palestinians and it’d give them jobs as it did in the past…

Contrary to popular belief the land size of Israel has actually shrunk by about 60% since 1975 in effort to try make peace with what has been known as Palestine since 1988 … this has only led to more conflict and turrmoil in the region.

31

Where?

Is this it?
This is immediately after the War to End All Wars - THE war between Good and Evil

Jews here most definitely means religion, not race
Any genetically Jewish people that are on the right side at that time would not only be spared - but expected to help in the fight. That doesn’t sound like a genocide. It looked like one, only by illusion

Anywhere else?

32

Yes, very contrary to popular belief

33

We’ve been here already. They’re genocidal, suicidal, apocalyptic inbred rejects. Other Arabs don’t even like them.

34

West bank settlements have expanded… but not even close to the extent of the landmass of gaza, which Israel gave up (alongside numerous areas of land controlled by Israel… like parts of the Sinai, the golan heights)

Do you really want to compare the expansation of a maybe ten thousand settlement houses over a long period of time to giving up hundreds of square kilometres of territory back to Syria, Egypt and Palestine?

Furthermore… who formally signed off on the existence of Palestine? Seriously asking because they were offered legitimate statehood six separate times and didn’t formally exist until 1988 when the PLO said “actually we are a country now… we informally declare all the land we were offered ours but we also don’t accept Israels right to exist even though Palestine was never independently governed by Palestinians”

I recognise a Palestinian state but I also recognise an arguement can be made the settlements aren’t necessarily illegal. To get out of Gaza Israel demolished the homes of over 10000 jews without permission… in the west bank the settlements are often built over unoccupied land contrary to the popular narrative settlements always involve kicking people out of their homes

When people are kicked out I agree its wrong… otherwise it’s just Palestinians being upset jews are moving in when 25% of Israels population is muslim… but less than 0.5% of Palestines population is jewish… I think it’s less than 0.1%

By the way… giving territory back to Egypt that Israel seized following numerous wars these countries started with Israel to wipe Israel off the map actually worked

Giving territory back to Palestinians, and offering to get rid of the settlements and give even more land back has mever worked

Hamas has been adamant a two state solution will never be on the cards

They continue to expand

Although one peace deal with Palestine involved removing 98% of the settlements and Palestine said no

As to “that’s is? Are you serious!”

The fact they reference the elders of the protocols of zion which specifies jews bake using the blood of children amongst other ridiculous consliracy theories, the 2-3 specific quotes they have about killing jews, the suicide bombings that they themselves take responsibility for etc

What do you realistically think Hamas would do if they seized power considered Jews have been kicked out of literallt every muslim majority country?

Whether you want to believe it or not BEFORE the start of the war Oct 7 was a deliberate attempt to target civillians… not soldiers

And Hamas has said they will do it again and again until Israel is “eradicated”. Do you REALLY think they’ll be friendly to Jews?

Black people in Gaza are confined to one or two neighborhoods where they face terrible discrimination for being black… like something right out of circa 1950s.

What do you realistically think a group that mentions killing jews in their charter that has shot over 20,000 rockets into Israel and consistently calls for the annihilation of all zionists and the country will do to jews?

Imagine if America said “oh and kill homosexuals/blacks/muslims”

In their constitution… just one sentence would be considered disgusting, unacceptable and given how literally people take in the constitution you can bet some would be fully on board with it if it were culturay engrained

Mossab Hasan Yousef is the son of Hamas co founder Yahya Sinwar… he is so outspoken on the brutality of Hamas he can’t even get a coffee in public within AMERICA as he risks being assassinated…

35

Huh? I think you’re projecting a bit.

Have Jews been kicked out of literally every Muslim majority country? Let’s start with the premise. I do believe Jews still live in Iran for one. Am I wrong?

36

I’m sure they’re living it up as well. You trying to find a counter argument only proves his point.

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37

Let’s not forget that the false prophet Muhammad murdered Jewish men and boys. Hamas is only living up to his bloody standards.

38

Trying to find? Are you saying you are sure that what I wrote is true, or trying to imply that it isn’t?

What point? An insincere question based on a false premise?

39

Let us remember that you are blind.

40

And just recently… like last week during ceasefire negotiations Hamas literally said “no… no peace… we will surrender when Israel doesn’t exist”

I’m sure there are individual members of Hamas who might negotiate their way into a two state solution so long as they can keeo smuggling weapons in to use in attacks

Hamas ONCE said they were open to a two statr solution earlier this year before backtracking

The general consensus has been the destruction of Israel

Did you know the IDF rescued a hostage today… Qaid Farhan Alkadi… held in the tunnels for ten and a half months

Remember when I said 25% of Israeli population was muslim?

Ok so literally one jew still lives in Yemen. In the 1940s/50s the IDF conducted operation magic carpet to secretly airlift yemeni jews out because they were being persecuted so severely.

Even Iran is being subject to actual ethnic cleansing of the jews

In Iraq four jews are left and they live in exile/have to hide that they are jewish

In 1948 there was 1.1 million Palestinians… now there is over 14 million right?

In 1948 Iran over 100,000 jews lived there. Now its less than 8000 and that number is rapidly trending downward

Keep in mind Israel has over two million muslims. Find me a muslim country that even has 100,000 jews… or 10,000 for that matter

And to my knowledge is wasn’t ALWAYS this way. I believe there was actually some time in history where jews and muslims had a better relationship than jews and christians did

I also want to point out I as a jew don’t actually have a problem with someone just for being muslim. For a while one of my close friends was muslim… I couldn’t maintain the friendship after Oct 7 when they started telling me about how great Hamas, Hezbollah, the houthis, Assad, Putin and the CCP (china) were… it was too much and if I dare argued back I’d be called a genocide supporter right after my families farmland was literally bombed during Oct 7 (and not for the first time)

This friend of mine had a muslim cousin who was an avid supporter of Adolf Hitler and thought pearl harbor and 9/11 was a jewish conspiracy… so my exposure to the Islamic community has overwhelmingly been people who support things I dislike. I say “was” as he has been partially deradicalised but passively aggressively calls himself a terrorist if you dare make a comment about Hamas in a way as to state “sure… all muslims are terrorists”

Which obviously isn’t accurate but from my experience a lot of muslims in my country support groups designated as terrorist organisations… they just don’t see the organisations in the same light I view them in (and some of them do and still think it’s good)… but for the most part ive found the majority coincidentally tend to not actually view footage from Oct 7

But at that I have met muslims… even a palestinian… who like me thought the whole conflict is stupid and we should stop hating one another…