90% of Children with Down Syndrome are Aborted

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
301

[quote]supa power wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]supa power wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Parts aren’t people, people are made of parts. Like a brain for instance. I don’t care if you want to chop your arm off, I do care if you want to kill your kid.
The fetus is a complete human, in developement, just as much as born human, just further along. Newborns are still pretty useless people. Hell, they can’t even roll over, how useless can you be? All they do is suck, sleep and grab.[/quote]

No brain = not people.[/quote]

Thats funny, I was just about to post EXACTLY THIS in the “using human embryos in stem cell research” thread but you beat me to it.
The brain more or less IS the person.[/quote]

Really? All this time I thought my dog and my guinea pigs were animals, one canine the other rodent, but damn they have brains. They’ve been human all this time…I better feed them then.
[/quote]

^This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on T nation… wow. So You had no idea whatsoever that I was obviously referring to a human brain??? If so then I don’t think it’s even worth arguing with you.[/quote]

You need to be specific…

302

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
This theory of yours necessarily posits that all developing organisms prior to fully developing a brain, can be anything and that if human, that same human can be replicated if terminated prior to developing a fully functional brain. [/quote]

Ah, how you twist my words is refreshing pat. If you need to believe that this is what I said and/or meant then please, be my guest.

Bye![/quote]

I didn’t twist your words, I was inferring their meaning. Because if said organism is human, you are on shaky ground.

303

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]supa power wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]supa power wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Parts aren’t people, people are made of parts. Like a brain for instance. I don’t care if you want to chop your arm off, I do care if you want to kill your kid.
The fetus is a complete human, in developement, just as much as born human, just further along. Newborns are still pretty useless people. Hell, they can’t even roll over, how useless can you be? All they do is suck, sleep and grab.[/quote]

No brain = not people.[/quote]

Thats funny, I was just about to post EXACTLY THIS in the “using human embryos in stem cell research” thread but you beat me to it.
The brain more or less IS the person.[/quote]

Really? All this time I thought my dog and my guinea pigs were animals, one canine the other rodent, but damn they have brains. They’ve been human all this time…I better feed them then.
[/quote]

^This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on T nation… wow. So You had no idea whatsoever that I was obviously referring to a human brain??? If so then I don’t think it’s even worth arguing with you.[/quote]

You need to be specific…[/quote]

Lol. So EVERYTHING has to be explained to you in meticulous detail?

304

[RANT]
Hi guys. I’m here to put an end to this argumenting.

I just experienced an enlightenment. Everything I have said is right. Now I just put my thoughts together so everyone can understand what I only implicitly understood by myself.

Fact: Homo sapiens sapiens is an animal. Our feelings are derived solely from the functions of our corporal body. Our feelings are the only thing that makes us do anything. I can never haver the same feelings as another person (animal). That is impossible because our experiences vary. Those experiences make changes to our body. Thoughts are solely derived from feelings. So…

There are no values. Just feelings. We are helpless before our feelings. They always rule over everything. The feeling(s) in charge may vary, of course. Life is AT LEAST MOSTLY deterministic.

The only way there could be any feelings would be if there was a god, gods / high power who would tell us what those values are. So if there indeed is a god who, as an authority, makes us (without letting us know, which would be absurd) have values, then sure, we would have values.

BUT I don’t create things out of thin air as if I was a god. I am an agnostic as stated so I don’t know if there is a god. If a god does not personally convince me that there are values I will not believe there are. I act how I do merely because of my feelings. If there is hell and I’m going there because that I might some day kill some one based on my feelings, so be it. God can’t blame me. If he does, he’s wrong, and out of sheer contempt of such idiocy, I will gladly go to hell for eternal suffering compared to going to heaven to enjoy that I support said idiocy.

Abortion, murder, theft, rape, whatever cannot be said to be right or wrong with any kind of authority. This is impossible. Sure there are laws, sure there is the society, but just as surely there are us with our opinions solely derived from our feelings.

TO PROVE THERE IS A GOD IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY IF YOU WISH TO CLAIM ANY KIND OF VALUES TO EXIST. AS YOU KNOW THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE. YOU CAN ONLY LET YOUR PERSONAL VALUES BE KNOWN TO OTHER PEOPLE. THIS IS THE FACT. WITHOUT PROOF, NOTHING COMES OUT OF THIN AIR BASED ON NOTHING!!![/RANT]

You might think I got sad upon the realization of the lack of existence of values. No. I started laughing and got happy because I finally could put the truth to words.

/end thread (unless someone has some MAJORLY KICKASSING ARGUMENT, which I highly doubt)

305

[quote]Raw Finn wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]supa power wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]supa power wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Parts aren’t people, people are made of parts. Like a brain for instance. I don’t care if you want to chop your arm off, I do care if you want to kill your kid.
The fetus is a complete human, in developement, just as much as born human, just further along. Newborns are still pretty useless people. Hell, they can’t even roll over, how useless can you be? All they do is suck, sleep and grab.[/quote]

No brain = not people.[/quote]

Thats funny, I was just about to post EXACTLY THIS in the “using human embryos in stem cell research” thread but you beat me to it.
The brain more or less IS the person.[/quote]

Really? All this time I thought my dog and my guinea pigs were animals, one canine the other rodent, but damn they have brains. They’ve been human all this time…I better feed them then.
[/quote]

^This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on T nation… wow. So You had no idea whatsoever that I was obviously referring to a human brain??? If so then I don’t think it’s even worth arguing with you.[/quote]

You need to be specific…[/quote]

Lol. So EVERYTHING has to be explained to you in meticulous detail?[/quote]

Sometimes :slight_smile:

306

Oh look, someone just re-invented moral relativism and get all warm and fuzzy about it.

307

[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
[RANT]
Hi guys. I’m here to put an end to this argumenting.

I just experienced an enlightenment. Everything I have said is right. Now I just put my thoughts together so everyone can understand what I only implicitly understood by myself.

Fact: Homo sapiens sapiens is an animal. Our feelings are derived solely from the functions of our corporal body. Our feelings are the only thing that makes us do anything. I can never haver the same feelings as another person (animal). That is impossible because our experiences vary. Those experiences make changes to our body. Thoughts are solely derived from feelings. So…

There are no values. Just feelings. We are helpless before our feelings. They always rule over everything. The feeling(s) in charge may vary, of course. Life is AT LEAST MOSTLY deterministic.

The only way there could be any feelings would be if there was a god, gods / high power who would tell us what those values are. So if there indeed is a god who, as an authority, makes us (without letting us know, which would be absurd) have values, then sure, we would have values.

BUT I don’t create things out of thin air as if I was a god. I am an agnostic as stated so I don’t know if there is a god. If a god does not personally convince me that there are values I will not believe there are. I act how I do merely because of my feelings. If there is hell and I’m going there because that I might some day kill some one based on my feelings, so be it. God can’t blame me. If he does, he’s wrong, and out of sheer contempt of such idiocy, I will gladly go to hell for eternal suffering compared to going to heaven to enjoy that I support said idiocy.

Abortion, murder, theft, rape, whatever cannot be said to be right or wrong with any kind of authority. This is impossible. Sure there are laws, sure there is the society, but just as surely there are us with our opinions solely derived from our feelings.

TO PROVE THERE IS A GOD IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY IF YOU WISH TO CLAIM ANY KIND OF VALUES TO EXIST. AS YOU KNOW THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE. YOU CAN ONLY LET YOUR PERSONAL VALUES BE KNOWN TO OTHER PEOPLE. THIS IS THE FACT. WITHOUT PROOF, NOTHING COMES OUT OF THIN AIR BASED ON NOTHING!!![/RANT]

You might think I got sad upon the realization of the lack of existence of values. No. I started laughing and got happy because I finally could put the truth to words.

/end thread (unless someone has some MAJORLY KICKASSING ARGUMENT, which I highly doubt)[/quote]

SO WHICH PART DID YOU WANT REFUTED?

308

[quote]kamui wrote:
Oh look, someone just re-invented moral relativism and get all warm and fuzzy about it. [/quote]

Wow, never heard any of that stuff a trillion times before one this forum…

310

[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
[RANT]
Hi guys. I’m here to put an end to this argumenting.

I just experienced an enlightenment. Everything I have said is right. Now I just put my thoughts together so everyone can understand what I only implicitly understood by myself.
[/quote]

Yeah, I have those all the time, but then I smoke a lot of weed.

Anyhow, those are usually the less interesting epiphanies.

311

[quote]kamui wrote:
Oh look, someone just re-invented moral relativism and get all warm and fuzzy about it. [/quote]

Well someone had to re-invent it. And yes I feel warm. :slight_smile:

312

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
[RANT]
Hi guys. I’m here to put an end to this argumenting.

I just experienced an enlightenment. Everything I have said is right…

[/quote]
[/quote]

I completely stand by what I said.

313

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
[RANT]
Hi guys. I’m here to put an end to this argumenting.

I just experienced an enlightenment. Everything I have said is right. Now I just put my thoughts together so everyone can understand what I only implicitly understood by myself.
[/quote]

Yeah, I have those all the time, but then I smoke a lot of weed.

Anyhow, those are usually the less interesting epiphanies. [/quote]

I would really like to try weed. It’s illegal here though.

314

[quote]pat wrote:
SO WHICH PART DID YOU WANT REFUTED?[/quote]

Well if I was you I would probably like to question that feelings are what dictate everything. You could say that reasoning dictates, but that is also based on our basic animal emotions / feelings / instincts.

Have something to add?

315

[quote]Raw Finn wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
[RANT]
Hi guys. I’m here to put an end to this argumenting.

I just experienced an enlightenment. Everything I have said is right. Now I just put my thoughts together so everyone can understand what I only implicitly understood by myself.
[/quote]

Yeah, I have those all the time, but then I smoke a lot of weed.

Anyhow, those are usually the less interesting epiphanies. [/quote]

I would really like to try weed. It’s illegal here though.[/quote]

Uhu…

Here too!

317

[quote]Raw Finn wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
SO WHICH PART DID YOU WANT REFUTED?[/quote]

Well if I was you I would probably like to question that feelings are what dictate everything. You could say that reasoning dictates, but that is also based on our basic animal emotions / feelings / instincts.

Have something to add?[/quote]

Well if you’re going to posit that feelings dictate everything(?) you may want to bring some evidence of that. Really anything somewhat relevant. I would argue that first ‘everything’ is pretty vague.
Animal instincts aren’t emotionally driven, hence why they are instincts. Contrarily they would be more likely to render an emotion rather than emotion to generate an instinct.
I am not agitated and therefore hungry, I am hungry and hence agitated because my physiological needs are not being met.
Empirically speaking it is generally a bad prospect to allow feelings to be in control, but some people function that way. Of course, this depends on where in Maslow’s hierarchy you stand.
The main factor in driving human behavior is binary. 4 things explain 95% of human behavior, genetics, needs, Classical Conditioning, and Operant conditioning.

Feelings are largely a reaction rather than a driving factor. Desire for a feeling can be a driving factor, but it isn’t always.

Basically, you’re whole rant was wrong, but you danced across so many topics, I could right a dissertation on each. So if you are truly interested in why your wrong, say with your moral relativism, your ‘feelings drive everything’ idea, freewill vs. determinism, mind-body problem, or proof of God’s existence, etc.
So pick your poison.

And don’t worry you can feel warm and fuzzy when your wrong too.

318

[quote]Raw Finn wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:
Oh look, someone just re-invented moral relativism and get all warm and fuzzy about it. [/quote]

Well someone had to re-invent it. And yes I feel warm. :)[/quote]

Uh, I hate to break it to you, but you haven’t broken any new ground. Moral relativism has been argued to death. The relativist usually loses…

319

especially on PWI

especially on PWI, and especially if the relativist is a youngster.

Where are Zeb and Forlife when we need them ?

320

When I say feelings I mean more than sad or angry. I don’t know if “feeling” is the right word to use.

It is hard-wired in us to be loyal to our own species. That is why we have compassionate feelings towards other people. This explains every urge to protect our own kind. Moral is not preventing you from killing other people. The urge to proceed the survival of our kind does. It’s just something we tend to call “moral”. As animals we just want the continuation of our species. Because of this urge we FEEL it would be wrong to kill our kind.

We also want more specifically our individual survival. This explains all “selfish” endeavors.

I regard things like hunger a feeling. You feel hungry. That’s what makes you eat so you don’t die. That is why eating is enjoyable. Nature has made it so that we ENJOY things that are beneficial for us and for our species.

How would we have moral that is based on something else than this, if not for a god?