9/11 is NOT a Conspiracy!

Mufasa · June 9, 2009, 2:36pm

sigh…

Who was responsible?
Why did they do it?
How did they pull it off?

(I’ll even accept the “Reader’s Digest” Version…)

Mufasa

Mufasa · June 9, 2009, 2:39pm

(Gotta’ watch those Jews, I tell 'ya…!)

Mufasa

Vegita · June 9, 2009, 2:57pm

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
sigh…

Who was responsible?
Why did they do it?
How did they pull it off?

(I’ll even accept the “Reader’s Digest” Version…)

Mufasa[/quote]

Thats exactly why there needs to be a better investigation, one where the people in charge aren’t using false science to prove thier theory.

I’m not claiming to know the answers, but from the science, it seems obvious to me someone would need significant access to the buildings. So if the government wants to say that islamic terrorists were responsible, we have bigger problems then them hijacking 4 planes. They obviously have infiltrated some pretty high positions of power within our society to have access to things like thermite and 3 of the most secure buildings in the world. That is, if I am to believe that islamic terrorists masterminded the whole enchilada.

The only thing I ask, is A did you watch the videos and B do you deny that building 7 was in freefall? Then C, if you agree with B, is what else causes freefall other than demolitions taking out the base of the building?

I would like to also point out that I am a patriot, I love the USA, but I am not one who will blindly follow any government. History has shown over and over and over, that governments start wars, and governments do evil bad things, even to thier own people. If my government is telling me one thing happened and science is telling me that another thing happened, then one of two things is true. They are completely useless idiots, or they were actively or passively involved in the act itself. I’ll take either one but the one thing our government clearly isn’t is competent. And actually, I could even believe that both are true.

The one thing I really don’t understand is the resistance to an actual public investigation. All the facts hashed out in open view. And let the conclusions be drawn then. When a police officer is a possible suspect in a criminal investigation, do we allow him to run the investigation? I think not, so weather they are innocent or guilty, an independant 3rd party needs to handle the investigation, not our own government. I would be happy with a large panel of experts from the private sector commisioned by congress and given the access they need to conduct a thourough investigation. None of this classified bullshit either. Refusal to comply with said investigation should imply guilt. Like someone else already mentioned. We spend 100 million on investigating a presidential blowjob, and 1 million on the biggest crime commited in our countries history. Sounds a little fishy to me.

V

Mufasa · June 9, 2009, 8:04pm

Believe me, Vegita…I don’t take what the Government says at face value. Nor would I trust any governmental “commission”.

“The Warren Commission” ,and its conclusions about the assasination of JFK, have been proven BEYOND any sense of credibility (bullets that somehow can change direction; or the simple fact that some loser with an old Bolt type Russian rifle pulled off two perfect head shots, yards away, with a moving target…and did it from two locations…the list goes on and on…).

With that being said,9/11 would take a conspiracy of a magnitude that is just too hard for me to get my head around. That’s the reason for my extreme cynasism about some broad conspiracy that goes beyond a group of highly motivated and intelligent Terrorist who planned this attack down to the last detail.

That is MY conclusion, and not that of a sheeple accepting what the Government says. If someone can lay out more credible “who’s”, “how’s” and “why’s”…then I may change that position.

About the “Blowjob” spending?

Politicians motivated to bring down a President and hopefully a Party will spend whatever it takes for their Political aims. For the Political mind, those aims are more important than any other considerations, secondary only to getting elected and/or re-elected.

Mufasa

Vegita · June 9, 2009, 8:47pm

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Believe me, Vegita…I don’t take what the Government says at face value. Nor would I trust any governmental “commission”.

“The Warren Commission” ,and its conclusions about the assasination of JFK, have been proven BEYOND any sense of credibility (bullets that somehow can change direction; or the simple fact that some loser with an old Bolt type Russian rifle pulled off two perfect head shots, yards away, with a moving target…and did it from two locations…the list goes on and on…).

With that being said,9/11 would take a conspiracy of a magnitude that is just too hard for me to get my head around. That’s the reason for my extreme cynasism about some broad conspiracy that goes beyond a group of highly motivated and intelligent Terrorist who planned this attack down to the last detail.

That is MY conclusion, and not that of a sheeple accepting what the Government says. If someone can lay out more credible “who’s”, “how’s” and “why’s”…then I may change that position.

About the “Blowjob” spending?

Politicians motivated to bring down a President and hopefully a Party will spend whatever it takes for their Political aims. For the Political mind, those aims are more important than any other considerations, secondary only to getting elected and/or re-elected.

Mufasa
[/quote]

All that being said, those were merely side points. What about building 7? If it is proven, that it was in free fall, which it now has been. And to my knowledge and the knowledge of the architects and engineers who pointed this out, the only way a building can collapse in free fall is with explosives planted inside the building and being triggered at the same time. So you are going to ignore those facts about building 7 and just accept the governments theory that fires weakened the steel beams and caused the collapse.

Look I would be happy if they said, Al Queda had inside people who were working for the elevator company who had access to the elevator shafts which are adjacent to the steel beams. And during the upgrading of the elevator systems in no big surprise, the buildings which collapsed, WTC 1, 2 and BLDG 7, they planted high explosives (thermite) around the columns which they had acess to. I mean if the government said that, I could believe it, but then we would have to look at the security detail who missed these terrorist working on the elevator shafts, the elevator repair company, and find out who exactly planted the explosives. If they even went that far, I would be happy to take thier word for it. But instead they lie to us. Or they are so completely stupid that a high school physics teacher can figure out that building 7 was in freefall and thier top people couldn’t. To me it is just as much evidence that there was a coverup of the JFK assasination.

Look, I am still on the fence about the whole NWO thing alex jones is harping on, what I am not on the fence about is people in power abusing it and doing terrible terrible things to other human beings, all for some percieved greater good. Are we still in Iraq? Did Hopey promise to get out of Iraq as soon as it was possible? Isn’t the region relatively stable now? I mean as much as it has been before? Why are we still there, why has he now backed away from a timetable? Is someone else pulling the strings? I have serious questions and the only way to get serious answers is to put people in power who will be above corruption. I do not have faith that many of the people we have in power are above corruption.

V

lanchefan1 · June 9, 2009, 5:31pm

Well for all of you looking for the truth in everything here is a site that may help you out.

Eielson · June 9, 2009, 8:27pm

Actually this was all done by Obama.

nik133 · June 9, 2009, 8:30pm

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
sigh…

Who was responsible?
Why did they do it?
How did they pull it off?

(I’ll even accept the “Reader’s Digest” Version…)

Mufasa[/quote]

You continually ignore all the facts that we present you with and will do anything to back up your side of the conclusion. No matter what anyone says to you, you seem to think that you deserve answers meanwhile our questions go unnoticed. This thread should be about keeping an open mind, instead it’s about stubborn people who come in here to tell others that they are lunatics for not believing a story with more holes then swiss cheese. All I can do is tell you about all that I know and all the facts that are readily available, if you want to choose to ignore them that is up to you.
Facts:
You know there was secondary explosions in the towers which are suppose to be the most secure buildings in all of America
You know that the only people that could’ve planted the amount of Thermite material (several tonnes) are people that would have lots of access to that building

Why don’t you agree with us? We don’t claim to have all the answers, but we are trying to get the government to re open the investigation so we can get all the answers. If you are against us you are against getting answers and thus satisfied with the ones you already have. So please enlighten me as to what part of the official story most swayed you to believe it, as I have done nothing but spew out all the reasons why I don’t believe it.

lanchefan1 · June 9, 2009, 5:24pm

I guess my question to nik133 would be do you understand how truss joist construction functions?

nik133 · June 9, 2009, 11:00pm

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
I guess my question to nik133 would be do you understand how truss joist construction functions?[/quote]

I know enough to know that the melting point was no where near reached (less then 3/4 of what the actual melting point for steel was the maximum temp that fuel can burn at) and if a building with steel trusses collapses because a few trusses on a few floors are weakened by fire, then I guess a lot more buildings should collapse. Why don’t you answer some of my questions now?

Why were 70% of the family member’s questions about 9/11 answered during the commission hearings?

We only have a few frames of what is suppose to be a plane hitting the pentagon yet the FBI seized tapes from nearby Hotels of what would clearly show what hit the pentagon, why haven’t they been released?

8 years later why has no one been punished for the countless mistakes that occurred that day?

Can a person walk through a closed door as smoothly as they can through an open door? (which is what happened when the towers fell since there was no resistance from the floors beneath them)

How could the towers have fallen near free fall speed without explosives?

If only 2 planes hit buildings that day, why did a 3rd building collapse?

lanchefan1 · June 9, 2009, 11:43pm

[quote]nik133 wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
I guess my question to nik133 would be do you understand how truss joist construction functions?

I know enough to know that the melting point was no where near reached (less then 3/4 of what the actual melting point for steel was the maximum temp that fuel can burn at) and if a building with steel trusses collapses because a few trusses on a few floors are weakened by fire, then I guess a lot more buildings should collapse. Why don’t you answer some of my questions now?

Why were 70% of the family member’s questions about 9/11 answered during the commission hearings?

We only have a few frames of what is suppose to be a plane hitting the pentagon yet the FBI seized tapes from nearby Hotels of what would clearly show what hit the pentagon, why haven’t they been released?

8 years later why has no one been punished for the countless mistakes that occurred that day?

Can a person walk through a closed door as smoothly as they can through an open door? (which is what happened when the towers fell since there was no resistance from the floors beneath them)

How could the towers have fallen near free fall speed without explosives?

If only 2 planes hit buildings that day, why did a 3rd building collapse? [/quote]

Ok… I never stated anything about the fire. There is way too much debate about how hot jet fuel burns at and also what other combustibles on those floors. And I do agree the melting point of steel is way too high to have been reached on those floors. That being said steel is affected by heat as low as 550 degrees C (about 1000 F).

And this leads to a point I was going to make, once one part of one truss fails (or is removed by say and airplane taking out several floors). It transfers the weight to the other truss’ this increased load makes failure more likely.

I am by no means an expert just trying to pass on some of what I have learned over the years.

lanchefan1 · June 9, 2009, 11:23pm

[quote]nik133 wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
I guess my question to nik133 would be do you understand how truss joist construction functions?

I know enough to know that the melting point was no where near reached (less then 3/4 of what the actual melting point for steel was the maximum temp that fuel can burn at) and if a building with steel trusses collapses because a few trusses on a few floors are weakened by fire, then I guess a lot more buildings should collapse. Why don’t you answer some of my questions now?

Why were 70% of the family member’s questions about 9/11 answered during the commission hearings?

I’m not here for strawman arguemments, the commission was appointed by the Bush administration (who I did vote for btw). By and large politicians are liars and the commission was just another group of those.

We only have a few frames of what is suppose to be a plane hitting the pentagon yet the FBI seized tapes from nearby Hotels of what would clearly show what hit the pentagon, why haven’t they been released?

I never brought up the Pentagon.

8 years later why has no one been punished for the countless mistakes that occurred that day?

Because they can’t put Guliani (sp) in jail.

Can a person walk through a closed door as smoothly as they can through an open door? (which is what happened when the towers fell since there was no resistance from the floors beneath them)

How could the towers have fallen near free fall speed without explosives?

Go back to my orginal question to you about truss floor construction and how they work and fail.

If only 2 planes hit buildings that day, why did a 3rd building collapse? [/quote]

Valid question, there are theories that due to falling debris the 3rd structure was damaged. You also have to remember all of the infrastructure that sat underneath these buildings. Is it possible in the collapse of WTC 1 & 2 that the sub floors were damaged? Damn my answers didn’t highlight sorry.

Mufasa · June 9, 2009, 11:51pm

[quote]nik133 wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
sigh…

Who was responsible?
Why did they do it?
How did they pull it off?

(I’ll even accept the “Reader’s Digest” Version…)

Mufasa

You continually ignore all the facts that we present you with and will do anything to back up your side of the conclusion. No matter what anyone says to you, you seem to think that you deserve answers meanwhile our questions go unnoticed. This thread should be about keeping an open mind, instead it’s about stubborn people who come in here to tell others that they are lunatics for not believing a story with more holes then swiss cheese. All I can do is tell you about all that I know and all the facts that are readily available, if you want to choose to ignore them that is up to you.
Facts:
You know there was secondary explosions in the towers which are suppose to be the most secure buildings in all of America
You know that the only people that could’ve planted the amount of Thermite material (several tonnes) are people that would have lots of access to that building

Why don’t you agree with us? We don’t claim to have all the answers, but we are trying to get the government to re open the investigation so we can get all the answers. If you are against us you are against getting answers and thus satisfied with the ones you already have. So please enlighten me as to what part of the official story most swayed you to believe it, as I have done nothing but spew out all the reasons why I don’t believe it.[/quote]

WHOA!

I’m not “against” or “for” anybody, here.

And I really don’t give a damn if you answer my questions or not. So I don’t think I “deserve” anything.

If things go as they did with the Assassination of JFK, the following will happen:

1)There will be no additional Government Funded Investigation. (You can count on it).

Slowly but surely, if what has been brought forth is a bunch of “smoke-and-mirrors” (as many suggest); the Private sector will write books; put out websites; lecture; BLOG…you name it… bringing forth facts and disputing official findings, piece by piece.
The “whos” and “whys” may never be known; or won’t be until decades later when classified information is open.

At least those who speak of those who could have killed JFK give names, groups and motives. Those are certainly helpful when coupled with the “facts”.

Does it always give us the truth?

No…and 46 years after JFK’s death, we are STILL speculatiing.

Good luck in your quest.

Mufasa

nik133 · June 9, 2009, 11:52pm

You do seem to be agreeing with the majority of what I say, it sounds like you are somewhat on the fence. Hopefully you can find out for yourself about what really happened to building 7, here is a video where they talk about the explosives found on the debris and a few minutes into the video it has a side by side comparison of building 7 and a demolition. Check it out: Richard Gage on KMPH Fox 26 in Fresno, CA - YouTube

lanchefan1 · June 10, 2009, 12:00am

[quote]nik133 wrote:
You do seem to be agreeing with the majority of what I say, it sounds like you are somewhat on the fence. Hopefully you can find out for yourself about what really happened to building 7, here is a video where they talk about the explosives found on the debris and a few minutes into the video it has a side by side comparison of building 7 and a demolition. Check it out: Richard Gage on KMPH Fox 26 in Fresno, CA - YouTube [/quote]

I’m agreeing that there are questions to be asked. All I am saying is that there are explanations for what happened other than explosives. Be open minded to ALL possibilities.

I’m tired of my 343 brothers being dragged through the mud.

nik133 · June 10, 2009, 12:07am

I’m not dragging anybody through the mud, if you look through my posts in this thread you will see that I actually praise the firefighters and there is even interviews where they (the firefighters) talk about hearing explosions and there is tapes where they report second explosions inside the building.

tom63 · June 10, 2009, 2:05am

[quote]nik133 wrote:
tom63 wrote:
I’m sure there are multiple things in the two towers that can cause explosions. Pressurized materials, and kind of fuel products. Cleaning chemicals, possibly. There was a whole lot of jet fuel in those planes. Something like 50,000 gallons. I’m sure there could be vapor building up and igniting due to electrical sparks, etc.

I think you people need to put on your tin foil hats. There are plenty other examples of things and times where the Feds overstepped their boundaries. Waco and Ruby Ridge come to mind. I would even buy a cover up or screw up at Oklahoma City before I would 911.

Let’s see, 19 BATF agents in the building, but none there when the explosion went off? Sounds funny to me. How about pictures of bomb squad vans parked close by before the explosion?

You can sell me a lot easier on the Feds screwing up capturing the bombing suspects in the act, before soemthign more complicated like 911. Life is not 24, there is not conspiracy in conspiracy out there.

Well I guess you can choose to ignore all the reports of second explosions, the videos of second explosions and even the countless individuals who stated that there were second explosions, you can even say that it was cleaning supplies that exploded, and you call me crazy? Ok well I’m just some crazy old nut job conspiracy theory believing fool so it’s easy to pull one over on me, but can you please explain why Scientists have found nano-thermite explosive in the debris of the towers( http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM ), or was that from the cleaning supplies?

How could the towers have fallen near free fall speed without explosives?
If only 2 planes hit buildings that day, why did a 3rd building collapse?
Why do we only have a few frames of what is suppose to be a plane hitting the pentagon when the FBI confiscated video from nearby hotels that would clearly show what hit it?
Why has not one person been punished for the countless mistakes that occurred that day?
Finally what reason do you have to believe the official story?
[/quote]

i’m not a physicist or engineer, but planes are heavy. there are 50,000 gallons of jet fuel in a plane. this might burn hot enough to weaken structures. Once a building like this gives way, each floor adds weight proportionately to the load, and things will collapse quickly.

As for all the facts, guys that sell conspiracy theories are selling conspiracy theories. They have their own built in bias to what they see.

Let’s say it is a big conspiracy theory, what will get done? If you think someone can pull off such a thing, do you seriously think all this internet yahoo conspiracy talk will get anything done? Any group powerful enough to clamp down on all the facts, well, will clamp down on all the facts.

But true patriots likes Alex Jones will shine the light of truth on this evil and make it all better.

lanchefan1 · June 10, 2009, 2:26am

[quote]nik133 wrote:
I’m not dragging anybody through the mud, if you look through my posts in this thread you will see that I actually praise the firefighters and there is even interviews where they (the firefighters) talk about hearing explosions and there is tapes where they report second explosions inside the building.[/quote]

Never said you were but there are plenty out there that are.

nik133 · June 10, 2009, 2:57am

[quote]tom63 wrote:
nik133 wrote:
tom63 wrote:
I’m sure there are multiple things in the two towers that can cause explosions. Pressurized materials, and kind of fuel products. Cleaning chemicals, possibly. There was a whole lot of jet fuel in those planes. Something like 50,000 gallons. I’m sure there could be vapor building up and igniting due to electrical sparks, etc.

I think you people need to put on your tin foil hats. There are plenty other examples of things and times where the Feds overstepped their boundaries. Waco and Ruby Ridge come to mind. I would even buy a cover up or screw up at Oklahoma City before I would 911.

Let’s see, 19 BATF agents in the building, but none there when the explosion went off? Sounds funny to me. How about pictures of bomb squad vans parked close by before the explosion?

You can sell me a lot easier on the Feds screwing up capturing the bombing suspects in the act, before soemthign more complicated like 911. Life is not 24, there is not conspiracy in conspiracy out there.

Well I guess you can choose to ignore all the reports of second explosions, the videos of second explosions and even the countless individuals who stated that there were second explosions, you can even say that it was cleaning supplies that exploded, and you call me crazy? Ok well I’m just some crazy old nut job conspiracy theory believing fool so it’s easy to pull one over on me, but can you please explain why Scientists have found nano-thermite explosive in the debris of the towers( http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM ), or was that from the cleaning supplies?

How could the towers have fallen near free fall speed without explosives?
If only 2 planes hit buildings that day, why did a 3rd building collapse?
Why do we only have a few frames of what is suppose to be a plane hitting the pentagon when the FBI confiscated video from nearby hotels that would clearly show what hit it?
Why has not one person been punished for the countless mistakes that occurred that day?
Finally what reason do you have to believe the official story?

i’m not a physicist or engineer, but planes are heavy. there are 50,000 gallons of jet fuel in a plane. this might burn hot enough to weaken structures. Once a building like this gives way, each floor adds weight proportionately to the load, and things will collapse quickly.

As for all the facts, guys that sell conspiracy theories are selling conspiracy theories. They have their own built in bias to what they see.

Let’s say it is a big conspiracy theory, what will get done? If you think someone can pull off such a thing, do you seriously think all this internet yahoo conspiracy talk will get anything done? Any group powerful enough to clamp down on all the facts, well, will clamp down on all the facts.

But true patriots likes Alex Jones will shine the light of truth on this evil and make it all better.[/quote]

It will get something done because it will inform people about what is truly going on. If anything hopefully it can inspire people to go out and do something themselves. Like I said I’ve already pretty much stated all my facts and they are all out, if you want to ignore them that is up to you.

Mufasa · June 10, 2009, 3:08am