All I know is I’d be killing a whole lot of folks if my little girl was gang raped.
[quote]thabigdon24 wrote:
Ok X, it’s great that you brought up nazi like experiments that what people did to blacks. What does this have to do wtih the rape of a girl? or her ostracism[/quote]
Whoosh
This is so sad, I can’t even comment on it.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
This is so sad, I can’t even comment on it. [/quote]
The best thing for the girl just might be to never get in contact with them again. Her entire life will be screwed because of this causing relationship issues later.
I have the sneaking suspicion, however, based on women I’ve known in the past, that more are being raped than we are even aware of in our own country by close family members.
To X’s point:
The individuals running the Tuskegee experiment probably saw African American farmers as “less than human” and so thought nothing of withholding treatment for their syphillus. In this case, they were deemed to be less important than the outcome of the experiment.
Similarly, the girls parents somehow see her as “less than a full human” in that her individual rights are less important than “family name” or reputation.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Dedicatedone wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Dedicatedone wrote:
Well judging by your logic we are 59 years ahead, which apparently makes a world of difference.
“30 years ago we were still allowing government agencies to experiment with syphilis on African American farmers.”
I’m not sure what you mean by this, once it was made public the “experiment” was terminated as it should have been, the public at large we’re not aware/complicit in this experiment. Comparing something that is kept secret to this obviously culturally accepted practice of ostracizing someone who has been brutally victimized at a young age makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense considering the point was that our own culture has quite a few rough edges. Is it that hard to follow the discussion? [/quote]
But you are comparing a practice that is widely known and publicly accepted by an entire culture to a situation where the public was (to my knowledge) completely in the dark until it hit the headlines (ie, it wasn’t “allowed” by our culture)… at which point it was hit with all the outrage one might expect (though I feel they should have gotten a more generous settlement and would have preferred a more timely public apology by the government).
Every culture has its rough edges, true - the major difference being that some sects acting upon these practices choose to keep theirs in the closet for fear of public vilification, whereas others unapologetically practice theirs in the light of day.
Don’t want to reply for X, but when stories like this happen people like to rationalize. Americans like to believe that shit like this only happens with foreigners, not with conservative, god-fearing middle Americans. But how many gay kids are thrown out of their homes every year? As a minority I get a little defensive whenever I see how things can be used to back up the illusion of a Leave it the Beaver America.
Hopefully the publicity will find the girl in a nice open minded foster family. Good may someday come out of this disaster.
[quote]Oscar Wao wrote:
Don’t want to reply for X, but when stories like this happen people like to rationalize. Americans like to believe that shit like this only happens with foreigners, not with conservative, god-fearing middle Americans. But how many gay kids are thrown out of their homes every year? As a minority I get a little defensive whenever I see how things can be used to back up the illusion of a Leave it the Beaver America.
Hopefully the publicity will find the girl in a nice open minded foster family. Good may someday come out of this disaster.[/quote]
Well said. It is apparently ok to point out the faults of an entire country, but if someone makes a statement about our own faults, everyone has a melt down.
The responses in this thread to that are more telling than they seem to realize.
[quote]Oscar Wao wrote:
Don’t want to reply for X, but when stories like this happen people like to rationalize. Americans like to believe that shit like this only happens with foreigners, not with conservative, god-fearing middle Americans. But how many gay kids are thrown out of their homes every year? As a minority I get a little defensive whenever I see how things can be used to back up the illusion of a Leave it the Beaver America.[/quote]
This is a good point.
It seems as though the four boys who were involved in perpetrating the rape have been identified and are being tried in a court of law. This is the best possible avenue for justice currently available. That those who commit crimes are caught, tried, and sentenced.
As for the father and his opinions… Liberia’s a messed-up place. It was colonized by freed American slaves. Freed slaves are not conducive to good government or cultural values. Exhibit A: Liberia. Exhibit B: Haiti. It neighbors Sierra Leone and the Ivory Coast, so it’s not like they’ve got great cultural role-models on hand to show them the error of their ways. Life sucks, and a father no longer wants his daughter. That’s tragic. I wholeheartedly support the removal of this poor victim to the care of the State. That seems to be the best option.
[quote]anonym wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Dedicatedone wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Dedicatedone wrote:
Well judging by your logic we are 59 years ahead, which apparently makes a world of difference.
“30 years ago we were still allowing government agencies to experiment with syphilis on African American farmers.”
I’m not sure what you mean by this, once it was made public the “experiment” was terminated as it should have been, the public at large we’re not aware/complicit in this experiment. Comparing something that is kept secret to this obviously culturally accepted practice of ostracizing someone who has been brutally victimized at a young age makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense considering the point was that our own culture has quite a few rough edges. Is it that hard to follow the discussion?
But you are comparing a practice that is widely known and publicly accepted by an entire culture to a situation where the public was (to my knowledge) completely in the dark until it hit the headlines (ie, it wasn’t “allowed” by our culture)… at which point it was hit with all the outrage one might expect (though I feel they should have gotten a more generous settlement and would have preferred a more timely public apology by the government).
Every culture has its rough edges, true - the major difference being that some sects acting upon these practices choose to keep theirs in the closet for fear of public vilification, whereas others unapologetically practice theirs in the light of day.[/quote]
Hit with outrage? LOL. Tell me, which president did this occur under and how long did it take for there to be any public apology and which president actually gave that apology?
Please, answer this. Other than that, I do believe enough people actually got the point I was trying to make…while others didn’t. Oh well.
if you can have a brightside to a story like this, people will be more than willing to adopt her and get her out of that house. She will get more chances, I live in tucson about 2 hrs south of Phoenix and we have a ton of people coming in from Africa and a lot of them dont get any respect or chances many live in the slums where gangs and violence are prevolent.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
anonym wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Dedicatedone wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Dedicatedone wrote:
Well judging by your logic we are 59 years ahead, which apparently makes a world of difference.
“30 years ago we were still allowing government agencies to experiment with syphilis on African American farmers.”
I’m not sure what you mean by this, once it was made public the “experiment” was terminated as it should have been, the public at large we’re not aware/complicit in this experiment. Comparing something that is kept secret to this obviously culturally accepted practice of ostracizing someone who has been brutally victimized at a young age makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense considering the point was that our own culture has quite a few rough edges. Is it that hard to follow the discussion?
But you are comparing a practice that is widely known and publicly accepted by an entire culture to a situation where the public was (to my knowledge) completely in the dark until it hit the headlines (ie, it wasn’t “allowed” by our culture)… at which point it was hit with all the outrage one might expect (though I feel they should have gotten a more generous settlement and would have preferred a more timely public apology by the government).
Every culture has its rough edges, true - the major difference being that some sects acting upon these practices choose to keep theirs in the closet for fear of public vilification, whereas others unapologetically practice theirs in the light of day.
Hit with outrage? LOL. Tell me, which president did this occur under and how long did it take for there to be any public apology and which president actually gave that apology?
Please, answer this. Other than that, I do believe enough people actually got the point I was trying to make…while others didn’t. Oh well.[/quote]
I guess people do not understand that sometimes people do not give a fuck about what society thinks. They were brought up in the dark, they live in their town or their city and could give a shit what the politically correct think. They could give a fuck what polite society says.
People still abuse their wifes, they still rape their daughters, they still shun kids and family members from everything from denying the family religion to being raped. You all act outraged and it is happening in your communities, do not feel so self righteous. Get over it, unless you are going to have a talk with this man, go fuck yourself. I live relatively close to this man, and if I decided to go ‘have a talk’ with him, I would be busy because I would have to talk with every other ‘twisted’ person out there doing something society likes to act outraged about, that most people do not even hear about. Professor X says we stopped being savages, I have to disagree, most people are still fucked up and twisted.
Just like Professor X’s example with the black farmers, no one gave a fuck. No one will give a fuck, just a bunch of pansies acting like it is horrendous then the next minute forget about it.
- Brother
[quote]Otep wrote:
It seems as though the four boys who were involved in perpetrating the rape have been identified and are being tried in a court of law. This is the best possible avenue for justice currently available. That those who commit crimes are caught, tried, and sentenced.[/quote]
I would hope those boys are sent to a maximum-security adult facility the very day they turn 18. They deserve to experience the victim’s side of their despicable crime.
[quote]ds1973 wrote:
I don’t think Professor X is trying to turn this into a discussion on racial relations. I do agree with Dedicatedone that this experiment was run by a select few in government and not with the approval of the general public. Additionally, the founding of the United States on the principle of individual liberty, and the general acceptance thereof, is what ultimately led to the demise of slavery. The idea of slavery was in direct conflict with the principle of individual rights.
[/quote]
Oh please, that is wishful thinking.
A lot of monarchies abolished slavery a lot sooner without resorting to violence.
One could argue that the same set of ideas that made slavery end was responsible for the revolution, but ignoring that the accumulation of capital had started to make slavery economically obsolete means buying into propaganda too much.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hit with outrage? LOL. Tell me, which president did this occur under and how long did it take for there to be any public apology and which president actually gave that apology?
Please, answer this. Other than that, I do believe enough people actually got the point I was trying to make…while others didn’t. Oh well.[/quote]
Clinton made the apology in 1997 - and I stated I wished there was a more timely apology from the government.
Outrage may have been too strong a word for your taste… my mistake for assuming shutting down the study, providing actual medical care for its former participants, and influencing the development The National Research Act (and the subsequent Commission and Belmont Report) hinted at some people viewing it as something worth getting their panties bunched over
Maybe “who gives a shit?” would’ve been a better summary of the reaction.
[quote]anonym wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Hit with outrage? LOL. Tell me, which president did this occur under and how long did it take for there to be any public apology and which president actually gave that apology?
Please, answer this. Other than that, I do believe enough people actually got the point I was trying to make…while others didn’t. Oh well.
Clinton made the apology in 1997 - and I stated I wished there was a more timely apology from the government.
Outrage may have been too strong a word for your taste… my mistake for assuming shutting down the study, providing actual medical care for its former participants, and influencing the development The National Research Act (and the subsequent Commission and Belmont Report) hinted at some people viewing it as something worth getting their panties bunched over
Maybe “who gives a shit?” would’ve been a better summary of the reaction.[/quote]
LOL. Yes, I can see how waiting nearly 20 years to give a public apology that was bypassed by two presidents can be seen as [quote]at which point it was hit with all the outrage one might expect[/quote]. Yeah…makes perfect sense.
You guys slay me. You also make this too easy.
Back to the topic at hand.
[quote]orion wrote:
ds1973 wrote:
I don’t think Professor X is trying to turn this into a discussion on racial relations. I do agree with Dedicatedone that this experiment was run by a select few in government and not with the approval of the general public. Additionally, the founding of the United States on the principle of individual liberty, and the general acceptance thereof, is what ultimately led to the demise of slavery. The idea of slavery was in direct conflict with the principle of individual rights.
Oh please, that is wishful thinking.
A lot of monarchies abolished slavery a lot sooner without resorting to violence.
One could argue that the same set of ideas that made slavery end was responsible for the revolution, but ignoring that the accumulation of capital had started to make slavery economically obsolete means buying into propaganda too much.
[/quote]
I agree that the accumulation of capital had a role to play. However, slavery has existed in some form or other throughout the world across many civilizations and has not just been limited to slaves from Africa. So what changed minds? Perhaps it is more accurate to say that the philosophy of individual rights of man, the same one that led to the creation of the United States, is what brought about the demise of slavery.
I think I’m drifting off topic though. 
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Professor X wrote:
anonym wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Dedicatedone wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Dedicatedone wrote:
Well judging by your logic we are 59 years ahead, which apparently makes a world of difference.
“30 years ago we were still allowing government agencies to experiment with syphilis on African American farmers.”
I’m not sure what you mean by this, once it was made public the “experiment” was terminated as it should have been, the public at large we’re not aware/complicit in this experiment. Comparing something that is kept secret to this obviously culturally accepted practice of ostracizing someone who has been brutally victimized at a young age makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense considering the point was that our own culture has quite a few rough edges. Is it that hard to follow the discussion?
But you are comparing a practice that is widely known and publicly accepted by an entire culture to a situation where the public was (to my knowledge) completely in the dark until it hit the headlines (ie, it wasn’t “allowed” by our culture)… at which point it was hit with all the outrage one might expect (though I feel they should have gotten a more generous settlement and would have preferred a more timely public apology by the government).
Every culture has its rough edges, true - the major difference being that some sects acting upon these practices choose to keep theirs in the closet for fear of public vilification, whereas others unapologetically practice theirs in the light of day.
Hit with outrage? LOL. Tell me, which president did this occur under and how long did it take for there to be any public apology and which president actually gave that apology?
Please, answer this. Other than that, I do believe enough people actually got the point I was trying to make…while others didn’t. Oh well.
I guess people do not understand that sometimes people do not give a fuck about what society thinks. They were brought up in the dark, they live in their town or their city and could give a shit what the politically correct think. They could give a fuck what polite society says.
People still abuse their wifes, they still rape their daughters, they still shun kids and family members from everything from denying the family religion to being raped. You all act outraged and it is happening in your communities, do not feel so self righteous. Get over it, unless you are going to have a talk with this man, go fuck yourself. I live relatively close to this man, and if I decided to go ‘have a talk’ with him, I would be busy because I would have to talk with every other ‘twisted’ person out there doing something society likes to act outraged about, that most people do not even hear about. Professor X says we stopped being savages, I have to disagree, most people are still fucked up and twisted.
Just like Professor X’s example with the black farmers, no one gave a fuck. No one will give a fuck, just a bunch of pansies acting like it is horrendous then the next minute forget about it.
- Brother[/quote]
I don’t feel self-righteous, I feel disgusted, and if no one gave a fuck about the members of the tuskegee experiments they wouldn’t have canceled the experiment, but we do agree on one thing, human beings are still very much savages regardless of where they were born, what language they speak, what god the pray to or the color of their skin.
[quote]Dedicatedone wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Professor X wrote:
anonym wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Dedicatedone wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Dedicatedone wrote:
Well judging by your logic we are 59 years ahead, which apparently makes a world of difference.
“30 years ago we were still allowing government agencies to experiment with syphilis on African American farmers.”
I’m not sure what you mean by this, once it was made public the “experiment” was terminated as it should have been, the public at large we’re not aware/complicit in this experiment. Comparing something that is kept secret to this obviously culturally accepted practice of ostracizing someone who has been brutally victimized at a young age makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense considering the point was that our own culture has quite a few rough edges. Is it that hard to follow the discussion?
But you are comparing a practice that is widely known and publicly accepted by an entire culture to a situation where the public was (to my knowledge) completely in the dark until it hit the headlines (ie, it wasn’t “allowed” by our culture)… at which point it was hit with all the outrage one might expect (though I feel they should have gotten a more generous settlement and would have preferred a more timely public apology by the government).
Every culture has its rough edges, true - the major difference being that some sects acting upon these practices choose to keep theirs in the closet for fear of public vilification, whereas others unapologetically practice theirs in the light of day.
Hit with outrage? LOL. Tell me, which president did this occur under and how long did it take for there to be any public apology and which president actually gave that apology?
Please, answer this. Other than that, I do believe enough people actually got the point I was trying to make…while others didn’t. Oh well.
I guess people do not understand that sometimes people do not give a fuck about what society thinks. They were brought up in the dark, they live in their town or their city and could give a shit what the politically correct think. They could give a fuck what polite society says.
People still abuse their wifes, they still rape their daughters, they still shun kids and family members from everything from denying the family religion to being raped. You all act outraged and it is happening in your communities, do not feel so self righteous. Get over it, unless you are going to have a talk with this man, go fuck yourself. I live relatively close to this man, and if I decided to go ‘have a talk’ with him, I would be busy because I would have to talk with every other ‘twisted’ person out there doing something society likes to act outraged about, that most people do not even hear about. Professor X says we stopped being savages, I have to disagree, most people are still fucked up and twisted.
Just like Professor X’s example with the black farmers, no one gave a fuck. No one will give a fuck, just a bunch of pansies acting like it is horrendous then the next minute forget about it.
- Brother
I don’t feel self-righteous, I feel disgusted, and if no one gave a fuck about the members of the tuskegee experiments they wouldn’t have canceled the experiment, but we do agree on one thing, human beings are still very much savages regardless of where they were born, what language they speak, what god the pray to or the color of their skin.
[/quote]
Where they reimbursed for the experiment, mistreatment, and neglect?