when i first started on TRT six months ago, i was told to take 0.5mg arimidex 2X per week. After reading all anti-AI information on here i discontinued use. I am not “symptomatic” of high E, in that i don’t have sensitive nipples or gyno (though i do feel i’m paranoid about; i scratched my nipple, did that feel more sensitive than it should’ve?)
I have been operating under the premise that once things got dialed in that morning wood was a good and reliable indicator of good working order. I have not experienced that in years, but remain cautiously optimistic.
So right away you were led astray and that’s not your fault.
I think a lot of your problems are also T related and not just E2 related, poor sleep is a symptom of excess of both and can wire us up a little. Some guys can easily handle levels 1000>, some can’t. Your Free T is higher than any natural men and you may not need levels this high.
Adjust your protocol and lower your dosage and you’ll be fine.
Your TSH looks a little high to me, could possibly be a thyroid issue
protocol right now is 20mg ED; which ironically does not relieve symptoms of ED (eye roll).
perhaps i should lower my dosage to 30mg EOD (which if my math is correct would be 105mg/wk; instead of the 140mg/wk of my current protocol). But i am a little concerned that EOD injections might result in more aromatisation, which apparently i do fairly efficiently.
So why not 15mg/day you ask? I suppose i could, just think there is more wastage in the syringe and more margin for error with small injection volumes
You are changing too many things, just lower the dosage. For all we know these two changes will lead to the same place. Your can’t math this out in your head, your biology doesn’t play by the same rules.
Good enough, if you feel a little better, go until that’s no longer true and go back to where you felt good and just sit back and enjoy the ride and wait for all the benefits.
I don’t fully understand the function and feedback mechanism of the thyroid, but it was mentioned in the past as a potential issue, which is why i requested (and paid for) thyroid panel testing.
If anything the only one that i thought was a little askew was T4; but again i don’t understand the mechanism
Duly noted, i will stick with daily injections of 15mg
a couple other test results are in:
DHEA-S - 3.2 (<9.7umol/L)
Insulin Fasting - 64 (20-180pmol/L)
All the other symptoms, I can deal with (although i would prefer not to have to) but I have ruined a few relationships due to no libido and dysfunction.
If your hypothyroid you are also suffering from symptoms of it also. T will not resolve symptoms of hypo therefore minimizing the effects of T as that is not the only issue. At least that is how I understand it.
my very basic understanding is that the body uses T4 to make T3; so how is it that my T4 is at the bottom end of the range and T3 is at the top end. If I were to take something like armour, which asi understand contains both T3 and T4; would it push T3 over the top end of the range or would conversion auto regulate? Some people this shit is easy, but clearly not. I don’t want to end up chasing every rabbit down every hole
@rabbit_ears
How long have you been on the current TRT protocol?
My shgb test came back at 16 with a total t of 1800. But I feel fine. Not sure how shgb is supposed to hurt or help
started out on 100mg weekly i/m injection + 15mg DHEA + 0.5mg AI; ran that for 6wks. TT raised to mid-range. Increased to 140mg weekly which i switched to 80mg every 4 days, eliminated AI and DHEA for another 6 wks.
Been running this protocol for about 7wks; 20mg daily IM injection (No AI or DHEA).
I know my T and E2 are high; so i would’ve thought i would’ve felt something, anything.
i don’t understand. I don’t feel better or worse than I did 6 months ago, pre-TRT.
I appear to be absorbing and metabolizing, just getting no effect.
I’m all for treating symptoms, not numbers, but i don’t think i see a point in increasing the dosage from here. Decreasing seems like the move to bring things down closer to the higher end of “normal” range. Not optimistic that is the solution either.
Not “heat” but I should clarify estrogen doesn’t induce insomnia, it’s quite the opposite. Oestrogen promotes a healthier sleep for most, during menopause many women notice insomnia in response to declining levels of estrogen.
Testosterone itself up regulates beta adrenergic receptors, influencing sensitivity to catecholamine release, up-regulating the sympathetic nervous system etc. Initially sympathetic dominance will make it very difficult to sleep.
Literature indicates AAS use/TRT (if dosed high enough to fall within pharmacology, not outright physiology) interferes with the users sleep efficiency, users tend to wake up more often at night. Insomnia/inadequate sleep is a common complaint within the bodybuilding community. If you’ve ever had a dealer for steroids and/or have navigated through the dark web you’ll notice many suppliers also stock painkillers (Training through injury), benzodiazepines (sleep) and Z-drugs (sleep)… there’s a reason they’ve always got sleeping pills, it’s because androgens dosed high enough (threshold differing for everyone) interfere with sleep. There’s one drug used to bulk up cattle called trenbolone (though insomnia isn’t just related to Tren)… this drug, aside from being incredibly harsh is notorious for inducing insomnia
It has nothing to do with estrogen, it’s to do with the pharmacokinetics of AAS
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Very interesting but I have never touched AAS and my worst sleep came when my was at its lowest
I’ve always slept like a rock, single digit free T and E2 30+FT and 70+E2, doesn’t seen to make any difference for me.
I’m also the guy that could lay my head down on a table in broad daylight virtually anywhere and be passed out in under 5 minutes though, so it would be pretty unusual for something to screw with my sleep
I don’t see how people with insomnia do it. I would go crazy if I had that much trouble sleeping.
reposting labs with what seems to be the preferred units for sex hormones. Hoping to get some feedback or ideas to discuss with my care provider on Monday when I see her. She is not averse to treating symptoms instead of treating numbers but when my sex hormone levels are all off the chart high and I have gotten little to no symptom relief; she is likely to want to suggest lower dose and implementing an AI.
For interest sake; pre-TRT (with the same symptoms as now) my levels were:
TT - 86ng/DL
E2 - 16ng/L
There has been a dramatic increase in levels of each with absolutely no appreciable symptom relief. I am baffled that I don’t feel anything.
Your levels are too high, you need balance. I felt as bad or worse with Total T at the top of the reference ranges, yours are well above and your E2 is approaching a woman’s estrogen level.
pre-TRT my T and E2 were both low; now both High. Somewhere along the way I should’ve passed through a middle ground, no?
Is it expected that i would feel no different when all levels hi versus all levels low?
Dosing isn’t linear, you can sail passed that sweat spot so fast you miss it entirely. An example, when my Total T goes from 450-500 my Free T jumps from 15->20 pg/mL.