Use the search function for TRT and low SHBG, you’ll see a large number on men with super low SHBG with symptoms and/or feeling no benefits on TRT and low SHBG is a big part of it, the SHBG balances the Total T, Free T, estrogen and Free E2.
A low SHBG guy who goes heavy on the dosing usually will be symptomatic or not feel any benefits. If one has high estrogen in relation to testosterone (estrogen dominance), the perception will be no benefit, often you hear some men with high estrogen claim no benefit because the estrogen is dominating.
Some guys can handle high estrogen, some can’t.
You and I are an outlier, the vast majority have problems. I’m lucky enough to see an increase in SHBG on TRT.
I don’t understand why people keep bringing outliers to the discussion. This case is so not typical, we don’t see many guys in this example. You might as well bring up those outliers who respond to 200mg every 2 weeks when I inform a new member that these protocols are no good.
Because you use words like “can’t” and “never” and that is just not true. If you’d like more examples, I’ll see if I can run them down. However, plenty of low SHBG guys do just fine on TRT and, are you ready, on weekly injection schedules.
I could, because, again, you are not accurate. Sure, every other week dosing is not ideal or optimal. No argument here. However, that does not mean the hundreds of thousands of guys doing that are not satisfied with their results. I could be one of them, when I skipped a couple of injections to experience the “crash” talked about here, I didn’t notice anything until the end of the second week. By the end of the third week, yeah, experiment over. I think I would be fine on every other week if I had to but I’m not inclined to test that.
By the way, currently taking 50mg every 60 hours, just experimenting. So far, no difference from 200mg 1x/week. If interested, I’ll let you know what I think in a few weeks.
I don’t see them often, I’m sure they exist, but the majority do better on frequent dosing. I have done polls before not just here on T-Nation, most who participated and replied emphasized of the low SHBG crowd that more frequent (daily) dosing than once weekly provided the best results and relive any lingering issues.
Some on them didn’t even have low SHBG, some had high SHBG. I do remember a couple of guys coming to T-Nation and making me eat my words regarding the every 2 week protocols working fine for them, but they are rare when compared to the typical cases I see on T-Nation, Excelmale and Peak Testosterone forum.
Seriously, 26 respondents, with a poll here? Go to a gym and take the poll. Hell, own my GP has over 100 guys on testosterone, all every other week dosing.
@systemlord this low shbg story you keep shoveling has got to stop. It is not true. I can disprove this 100 different ways. There are TONS of low shbg guys I deal with every single day doing great on TRT. What you are claiming is a complete falsehood. It simply isn’t true. I don’t care who taught it to you or where you read it. I can make a post about it in my group and gladly post the comments here but, as usual, you will think I made it all up.
I would imagine there many variables that we just don’t know about yet. Regardless of SHBG or whatever else the only real answer is trial & error with dosing, giving it enough time and then injection frequency if you want to get fancy. The issue with blaming estrogen, SHBG or anything else is people get it in their heads that they are screwed. That TRT can’t work for them because of X. When you develop that mentality going into a new protocol you set yourself up for failure. I have many friends on TRT that don’t know what they are taking much less what estrogen or SHBG is and they are killing it and I have to think it’s in part because they went into it with the mindset of “Testosterone = feeling better & getting jacked”. Every one of them is on the same dose and have never had issues. Yes there are some folks who will have legit problems when starting TRT but they usually have other shit going on or are carrying too much body fat.
I really wish there was a sticky that says if you are fat then you aren’t likely to feel ideal on TRT until you lose the weight. When I was 30% body fat on basically the same dose I’m on now I felt like crap. When I got down to 20% or less it’s like a completely different experience. I definitely think when someone new comes to the forum with issues one of the first things we should ask is how fat they are.
I have requested TT, E2, SHBG, FT, full thyroid panel for testing. I will get blood work done at the end of the month and will follow up then.
Until then I will continue 20mg Cyp ED, no AI, no DHEA
Supplementing with Arginine and citrulline for NO support (as of the past two nights, Cialis started working again, so at least that’s a step in the right direction; but at $18/pill in Canada, I would rather not have to rely on it)
went in for lab work today, $147 out of pocket for the following tests. Should this give a decent picture as what is/isn’t working for me on TRT and maybe why?
Again, I am on 20mg ED IM Injections of test cyp, plus supplementing with Vit D3 (no AI for 8wks, no DHEA for 5wks).
i will post again when lab results are published in the next couple days
OK, so here are most of my results and I am at a loss. I feel no symptom relief; still lousy sleep, difficult concentrating, can’t remember sh!t when i used to have a very good memory, no libido, ED, cannot lose weight (worse now as i seem to be adding water weight).
I will go see my healthcare provider on Monday, she is open to communication and suggestion but is relatively inexperienced with TRT. But based on the results i have here, i assume that she will want to lower my dose and push an AI.
I don’t know what to do, feel like throwing in the towel and abandoning the TRT experience as it has not improved my quality of life, what so ever
You mentioned your sleep is messed up, it might be time to ask them to refer you for a sleep study.
I also find that really setting a bedtime routine and sticking to it helps. I’d really do as much as possible on this front, poor sleep screws everything up.
I think your dosage is too aggressive and is why you aren’t feeling good, more is better doesn’t apply to you. This wouldn’t be the first time some complained of symptoms with estrogen creeping towards 70 with poor sleep being the most notable one.
thanks for the responses. I will say, even though my sleep is not great, it has improved slightly since being on TRT. Used to go to bed at say 10, would wake up thinking i slept through the night and look at the clock and it be 1230 and i would be wide awake for the rest of the night. Was like this for months. Still happens occasionally, but for the most part fall asleep quicker than i used to and only wake briefly a few times a night before alarm goes off at 430am.
I this was my second dosage after first dosage of 100mg/wk failed to bring TT up past about midrange
I’m probably going to take some heat from my next comment, but this for me would be an estrogen problem because it has my mind sped up to the point where sleep suffers even though I felt groggy/sleepy.
I also encountered these symptoms when injecting twice weekly (E2 70), being sensitive to hormonal fluctuations, more shot frequency improve sleep rather quickly. Don’t give up @rabbit_ears, you’ll eventually find success, I mean look how long I’ve spent looking for the correct protocol and all the problems I’ve had, I’m still trying to figure things out 3 years later.
