The guy is 5’9" and 185. He could easily be 200 and strong. Or 230 and REAL strong.
Now, if he’s more concerned with his weight than his strength- that’s fine.
Also, adding weight to the Bench while cutting body weight can be done. But progress will be exceedingly slow. That’s asking two very different things of the body at the same time.
Life is a series of tradeoffs.
[quote]SevenDragons wrote:
The guy is 5’9" and 185. He could easily be 200 and strong. Or 230 and REAL strong.
Now, if he’s more concerned with his weight than his strength- that’s fine.
Also, adding weight to the Bench while cutting body weight can be done. But progress will be exceedingly slow. That’s asking two very different things of the body at the same time.
Life is a series of tradeoffs. [/quote]
I’m 5’10, 190 lbs. If the OP is underweight, then I guess I am too. Am I underweight, sevendragons?
Weighing 200 lbs doesn’t automatically make you strong. And being less than 200 lbs doesn’t make you weak.
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]SevenDragons wrote:
The guy is 5’9" and 185. He could easily be 200 and strong. Or 230 and REAL strong.
Now, if he’s more concerned with his weight than his strength- that’s fine.
Also, adding weight to the Bench while cutting body weight can be done. But progress will be exceedingly slow. That’s asking two very different things of the body at the same time.
Life is a series of tradeoffs. [/quote]
I’m 5’10, 190 lbs. If the OP is underweight, then I guess I am too. Am I underweight, sevendragons?
Weighing 200 lbs doesn’t automatically make you strong. And being less than 200 lbs doesn’t make you weak.[/quote]
Yes, you are horribly, horribly underweight. See those abs in your profile pic? Disgusting. You look like a starvation victim. Eat a fucking cheeseburger FFS.
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]SevenDragons wrote:
The guy is 5’9" and 185. He could easily be 200 and strong. Or 230 and REAL strong.
Now, if he’s more concerned with his weight than his strength- that’s fine.
Also, adding weight to the Bench while cutting body weight can be done. But progress will be exceedingly slow. That’s asking two very different things of the body at the same time.
Life is a series of tradeoffs. [/quote]
I’m 5’10, 190 lbs. If the OP is underweight, then I guess I am too. Am I underweight, sevendragons?
Weighing 200 lbs doesn’t automatically make you strong. And being less than 200 lbs doesn’t make you weak.[/quote]
Yes, you are horribly, horribly underweight. See those abs in your profile pic? Disgusting. You look like a starvation victim. Eat a fucking cheeseburger FFS.[/quote]
I get that a lot.
How many years have you been training Flip?
Do you assiduously monitor your diet? Diligently choose training reps/schemes/sets with a min/max purpose? I’ll bet you do because you look fantastic in your pic. Like it took years to get there. Or perhaps you are an anomaly and only started hitting the weights last month.
The bottom line is that this obsession with grown men thinking 200 is too fat for them is fking out of control. If you are over 5’9, there is no reason you need to be under 200. If you DO CHOOSE TO BE, then especially as a BEGINNER, get used to your lift numbers taking much longer to improve than if you simply threw caution to the wind and worried about strength NOW, fat loss LATER.
That was my point about life being a series of tradeoffs. In order to grow, the body needs to be in a caloric surplus. A significant surplus if one is looking to do programs such as 5x5 or SS which really ask a lot of you as a n00b (because you ARE a n00b and should be able to meet the demands). While fat loss requires a calorie deficit. Two opposing elements that can, I stress can, be managed by experienced lifters who are past the weakling stages of their lifting career. If you are going to calorie count yourself to 2800 calories a day… then you are wasting your time. Go find another program (as I suggested) or else get used to mediocre gains taking an inordinately longer than need be.
At no point did I assert that a 200 lb fattie that only lifts his fork is the same as a 200 lb grown man that lifts real weight.
This cultural obsession to look like Justin Beiber but lift like Mr. Olympia on roids is absurd. Most of the people we are dealing with HERE on the beginner boards are folks that aren’t 10 years or more into bodybuilding and min/maxers on diet.
For the love of all gods, this guy is talking about struggling with 126 lbs BP at 185 body weight. EAT MOAR.
[quote]SevenDragons wrote:
Nobody has lifts, especially the bench which seems to be affected more by overall body weight, go UP when they are dieting to LOSE weight. Pick one or the other. [/quote]
this…made this mistake before.
[quote]SevenDragons wrote:
How many years have you been training Flip?
Do you assiduously monitor your diet? Diligently choose training reps/schemes/sets with a min/max purpose? I’ll bet you do because you look fantastic in your pic. Like it took years to get there. Or perhaps you are an anomaly and only started hitting the weights last month.
The bottom line is that this obsession with grown men thinking 200 is too fat for them is fking out of control. If you are over 5’9, there is no reason you need to be under 200. If you DO CHOOSE TO BE, then especially as a BEGINNER, get used to your lift numbers taking much longer to improve than if you simply threw caution to the wind and worried about strength NOW, fat loss LATER.
That was my point about life being a series of tradeoffs. In order to grow, the body needs to be in a caloric surplus. A significant surplus if one is looking to do programs such as 5x5 or SS which really ask a lot of you as a n00b (because you ARE a n00b and should be able to meet the demands). While fat loss requires a calorie deficit. Two opposing elements that can, I stress can, be managed by experienced lifters who are past the weakling stages of their lifting career. If you are going to calorie count yourself to 2800 calories a day… then you are wasting your time. Go find another program (as I suggested) or else get used to mediocre gains taking an inordinately longer than need be.
At no point did I assert that a 200 lb fattie that only lifts his fork is the same as a 200 lb grown man that lifts real weight.
This cultural obsession to look like Justin Beiber but lift like Mr. Olympia on roids is absurd. Most of the people we are dealing with HERE on the beginner boards are folks that aren’t 10 years or more into bodybuilding and min/maxers on diet.
For the love of all gods, this guy is talking about struggling with 126 lbs BP at 185 body weight. EAT MOAR.[/quote]
My diet’s pretty good, and yes I’ve been lifting for awhile. On and off more than a decade now, but pretty consistent over the last 3-4 years, with making an extra effort to get enough protein. Your point’s well taken.
And I also agree that there’s a serious issue with his strength relative to his weight. Where we disagree is how he should proceed. I don’t think pushing his weight up even further solves his problem. I think he probably needs to rethink his current macro breakdown. And his training intensity is likely lacking. I’ve just never, ever put on excess fat in my time lifting. This is me ‘bulked’ in my avatar picture. It’s about as fat as I ever get, and this is my lifetime heaviest bodyweight. Just a different approach to the same problem. I’m more for the lean, consistent gains type of approach than the old school bulk/cut.
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
My diet’s pretty good, and yes I’ve been lifting for awhile. On and off more than a decade now, but pretty consistent over the last 3-4 years, with making an extra effort to get enough protein. Your point’s well taken.
And I also agree that there’s a serious issue with his strength relative to his weight. Where we disagree is how he should proceed. I don’t think pushing his weight up even further solves his problem. I think he probably needs to rethink his current macro breakdown. And his training intensity is likely lacking. I’ve just never, ever put on excess fat in my time lifting. This is me ‘bulked’ in my avatar picture. It’s about as fat as I ever get, and this is my lifetime heaviest bodyweight. Just a different approach to the same problem. I’m more for the lean, consistent gains type of approach than the old school bulk/cut.[/quote]
Thanks for the rational response, flip. I respect your opinions and understand they are a bit different than mine.
You are a guy that has been lifting 10 years, the last 4 years seriously. Along with a good diet, an understanding (and desire) about macros and min/maxing numbers. It’s clear because your pic shows a very muscled, strong fellow that doesn’t have a lot of fat going on.
This is much more advanced than the average beginner.
Beginning lifters should not be so worried about macros and min/maxing. Eating 200g protein is target 1.
It’s not easy to balance a diet regimen intended to “lose fat” with a training program intended to gain strength. Generally, more advanced lifters such as yourself or the myriad of others around here are quite capable of doing so. N00bs, not so much. It’s better to focus either on strength gain (calorie surplus) OR fat loss (calorie deficit).
A guy that is 185 should not be wasting his precious time on the latter. Especially when he’s struggling at 126 lbs on the BP. He needs to be stronger, not skinnier.
But that’s his personal choice.