[quote]box4m wrote:
You mentioned “the original 531 book and SVR” and that you smashed records etc.
Im just thinking if the new book explains it the same way.
Do you have Beyond 531? It sounded like it in the post.
If so on page 30 of the pdf there is “5/3/1 SVR Training”, does that add up to what youve been doing?
Thanks[/quote]
I’ve been doing that SVR template for two cycles. So it’s not absolutely exactly the original 5/3/1 (the 1’s week is all singles ie jokers), but after doing several cycles of various templates with plenty of jokers, singles and stuff, backing off and doing basically the original bog standard 5/3/1 has me feeling like I’m making progress. I despise bench but hit a new 1RM PR this week, for example.
It’s about leaving a little room to develop, over bashing away at 100% on a regular basis. It seems to me anyway.
For what is worth, I’ve bee using Joker sets extensively since reading “Beyond 5/3/1”, always pushing last regular set but leaving a rep or two in the tank.
Most of times, I kinda feel than I cannot give all I have in only one “all out” set, so Jokers come in to really push me forward. Then a 5x5-6 FSL fits perfectly to add volume while working on form, even if in a fatigued condition.
Of course, when I hardly can hit the prescribed reps in the last regular set, I won’t even try a Joker, and only do a couple of FSL, if any. These days almost feel as active recovery.
Just see Jokers as something you CAN do, not a chore you HAVE TO do.
[quote]JFG wrote:
Just do the damn program. 5/3/1, BBB, 1 accessory. You can “reverse” BBB", start light on BBB (30-40%) and work your way up and even pyramide down your BBB set if you want. All explained in the book. FSL and Jokers are not anywhere near that template. All BBB weights from your TM.
5 years… are you kidding me…It has nothing to do with the program, it`s you!
You really can`t see that 5/3/1, BBB, Jokers or FSL and accessory is too much?
It’s the most popular template because it works. As is.[/quote]
I never said/meant that its the programs fault, absolutely not. I just stated facts about me.
Just stick to the program yeah, but its not always so easy to work out what the program actually is when its 200 different combinations in the book.
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
In general, we rarely use Joker sets. Especially with BBB. We reserve Jokers for other cycles.
We usually plan training of the lifters/athletes for 36 weeks. Those that use BBB (very few) NEVER use Jokers: we always use 5’s PRO. if you’ve read any of the recent programming I’ve done in past year, you’d see Jokers are rarely used. Honestly, I wish I would have kept my mouth shut about them.
[/quote]
So are you no longer endorsing never peak again?
Do you currently train powerlifters? Do you have them do lifer as well? Or something else?[/quote]
I don’t think you understand Never Peak Again. Yes I train PL. What I do with them is for the individual. Jokers are rarely used. We don’t need them since we train so damn hard.
[quote]JFG wrote:
Just do the damn program. 5/3/1, BBB, 1 accessory. You can “reverse” BBB", start light on BBB (30-40%) and work your way up and even pyramide down your BBB set if you want. All explained in the book. FSL and Jokers are not anywhere near that template. All BBB weights from your TM.
5 years… are you kidding me…It has nothing to do with the program, it`s you!
You really can`t see that 5/3/1, BBB, Jokers or FSL and accessory is too much?
It’s the most popular template because it works. As is.[/quote]
I never said/meant that its the programs fault, absolutely not. I just stated facts about me.
Just stick to the program yeah, but its not always so easy to work out what the program actually is when its 200 different combinations in the book.[/quote]
All with the exact same principles. Obey principles.
I don’t think you understand Never Peak Again. Yes I train PL. What I do with them is for the individual. Jokers are rarely used. We don’t need them since we train so damn hard.
[/quote]
Yes this is quite likely so, but still the way i read it, it doesn’t exactly limit jokers to certain phases or even days.
That’s what made me confused as you now say you’d wish you hadn’t mentioned em at all.
[quote]JFG wrote:
Just do the damn program. 5/3/1, BBB, 1 accessory. You can “reverse” BBB", start light on BBB (30-40%) and work your way up and even pyramide down your BBB set if you want. All explained in the book. FSL and Jokers are not anywhere near that template. All BBB weights from your TM.
5 years… are you kidding me…It has nothing to do with the program, it`s you!
You really can`t see that 5/3/1, BBB, Jokers or FSL and accessory is too much?
It’s the most popular template because it works. As is.[/quote]
I never said/meant that its the programs fault, absolutely not. I just stated facts about me.
Just stick to the program yeah, but its not always so easy to work out what the program actually is when its 200 different combinations in the book.[/quote]
All with the exact same principles. Obey principles.
[/quote]
I love 5/3/1 because it’s so simple to use, where did it get so confused? I for one am sure it wasn’t Jim that caused it.
I never said/meant that its the programs fault, absolutely not. I just stated facts about me.
Just stick to the program yeah, but its not always so easy to work out what the program actually is when its 200 different combinations in the book.[/quote]
All with the exact same principles. Obey principles.
[/quote]
I love 5/3/1 because it’s so simple to use, where did it get so confused? I for one am sure it wasn’t Jim that caused it.[/quote]
I think reading Beyond out of context causes confusion, although the title states right there that the book is literally Beyond 5/3/1, most of the variations are on supplemental work - not main lifts, not accessories - so like some_dude states, people get fixated on details like supplemental work, which Jim has even asterisked as optional when laying out a program, and remove their focus from the core - which is getting stronger on the main lifts.
I don’t know the reality, but from reading these forums, it seems like many people ask “How to a vary the BBB over time because I can’t figure this out? Oh, and I don’t do the original 5/3/1 workouts because I’m too advanced and/or don’t get a good pump.” and Jim writes a book with lots of variations and strings them together into a 28 week or whatever plan so he doesn’t have to keep answering this. Then, people start coming back and asking, “How do I change up this 28 week plan because I’m on week 4 and I don’t think I’m progressing as fast as I can?”
BTW, this isn’t knocking you box4m, it’s a general observation.
Jokers should be limited because people need to be saved from their own decisions. One thing I’ve learned is that if you give people an inch of role, they will fashion a noose.
I never said/meant that its the programs fault, absolutely not. I just stated facts about me.
Just stick to the program yeah, but its not always so easy to work out what the program actually is when its 200 different combinations in the book.[/quote]
All with the exact same principles. Obey principles.
[/quote]
I love 5/3/1 because it’s so simple to use, where did it get so confused? I for one am sure it wasn’t Jim that caused it.[/quote]
I think reading Beyond out of context causes confusion, although the title states right there that the book is literally Beyond 5/3/1, most of the variations are on supplemental work - not main lifts, not accessories - so like some_dude states, people get fixated on details like supplemental work, which Jim has even asterisked as optional when laying out a program, and remove their focus from the core - which is getting stronger on the main lifts.
I don’t know the reality, but from reading these forums, it seems like many people ask “How to a vary the BBB over time because I can’t figure this out? Oh, and I don’t do the original 5/3/1 workouts because I’m too advanced and/or don’t get a good pump.” and Jim writes a book with lots of variations and strings them together into a 28 week or whatever plan so he doesn’t have to keep answering this. Then, people start coming back and asking, “How do I change up this 28 week plan because I’m on week 4 and I don’t think I’m progressing as fast as I can?”
BTW, this isn’t knocking you box4m, it’s a general observation.
[/quote]
Everyone’s an advanced lifter! You hit the nail on the head with a lot of this stuff. I have been doing this stuff for so long that I just experiment and write and expalin stuff as simply as possible and LITERALLY write exactly what to do. The exact program. If someone wants to change it due to them having a problem with it, I let them and don’t care. It’s their training and their body. And they know what’s best. I don’t compromise on what I know and what i think is best. And neither should another. So do what thou wilt - it’s your training, not mine.
Concerning wanting to change the program in my case wasnt really my intension, i would say i just misunderstood alittle, i have been doing 531 for ages, but my problem have probably been my accessorywork (and lately doing jokers every time i hit the gym).
I never ever ever said 531 doesnt work or even said anything close to it, as i just said ive been doing it for ages and i really like it.
But i dont progress (whatever program i use), so im clearly doing shit wrong, and i am quite sure its the things AFTER 531 sets.
Ive probably been doing a hell of alot too much each workout.
I will anyway do my best for a while now and just follow the program and not think i know better, cause i clearly dont.
I emphesize again that anything i said was never intended as critisism against 531, as i love it.
You should think about what your goal is. Figure that one out first. You have several options:
If strength is your goal, focus on that last set (+set). Try breaking your rep max or calculated max by getting in the reps. Doing more reps with a certain weight means you’re getting stronger. You can do some FSL 3x5 for a little more volume for keeping that muscle. This is what I do right now.
If mass is your goal, do just the prescribed reps or 5’s progression and then BBB. Mass comes from volume mostly.
You should decide your goal first and then work the plan. Don’t add unnecesary fluff, becase it will take more than it will give. There’s a certain time in the year for every goal, but you should focus on one goal at a time.
[quote]Siemen wrote:
You should think about what your goal is. Figure that one out first. You have several options:
If strength is your goal, focus on that last set (+set). Try breaking your rep max or calculated max by getting in the reps. Doing more reps with a certain weight means you’re getting stronger. You can do some FSL 3x5 for a little more volume for keeping that muscle. This is what I do right now.
If mass is your goal, do just the prescribed reps or 5’s progression and then BBB. Mass comes from volume mostly.
You should decide your goal first and then work the plan. Don’t add unnecesary fluff, becase it will take more than it will give. There’s a certain time in the year for every goal, but you should focus on one goal at a time.[/quote]
Yeah, but not going for PR on last 531 set means less volume :o
[quote]Siemen wrote:
You should think about what your goal is. Figure that one out first. You have several options:
If strength is your goal, focus on that last set (+set). Try breaking your rep max or calculated max by getting in the reps. Doing more reps with a certain weight means you’re getting stronger. You can do some FSL 3x5 for a little more volume for keeping that muscle. This is what I do right now.
If mass is your goal, do just the prescribed reps or 5’s progression and then BBB. Mass comes from volume mostly.
You should decide your goal first and then work the plan. Don’t add unnecesary fluff, becase it will take more than it will give. There’s a certain time in the year for every goal, but you should focus on one goal at a time.[/quote]
Yeah, but not going for PR on last 531 set means less volume :o[/quote]
Pushing the last set Will drain you too much. You’ll need your energy in the 5x10 sets. There’s the focus of BBB
[quote]Siemen wrote:
You should think about what your goal is. Figure that one out first. You have several options:
If strength is your goal, focus on that last set (+set). Try breaking your rep max or calculated max by getting in the reps. Doing more reps with a certain weight means you’re getting stronger. You can do some FSL 3x5 for a little more volume for keeping that muscle. This is what I do right now.
If mass is your goal, do just the prescribed reps or 5’s progression and then BBB. Mass comes from volume mostly.
You should decide your goal first and then work the plan. Don’t add unnecesary fluff, becase it will take more than it will give. There’s a certain time in the year for every goal, but you should focus on one goal at a time.[/quote]
Yeah, but not going for PR on last 531 set means less volume :o[/quote]
The BBB 5x10 is the focus for gaining mass. The last set for max or Jokers would take away too much energy you would neef for the 5x10. Focus on your goal
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
In general, we rarely use Joker sets. Especially with BBB. We reserve Jokers for other cycles.
We usually plan training of the lifters/athletes for 36 weeks. Those that use BBB (very few) NEVER use Jokers: we always use 5’s PRO. if you’ve read any of the recent programming I’ve done in past year, you’d see Jokers are rarely used. Honestly, I wish I would have kept my mouth shut about them.
[/quote]
Really, in Beyond you seemed to be really high on Joker’s. What’s changed?
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
In general, we rarely use Joker sets. Especially with BBB. We reserve Jokers for other cycles.
We usually plan training of the lifters/athletes for 36 weeks. Those that use BBB (very few) NEVER use Jokers: we always use 5’s PRO. if you’ve read any of the recent programming I’ve done in past year, you’d see Jokers are rarely used. Honestly, I wish I would have kept my mouth shut about them.
[/quote]
Really, in Beyond you seemed to be really high on Joker’s. What’s changed? [/quote]
People forgot what was important and ditched the principles. I answer hundreds of questions about this and see people routinely biting off more than they can handle. I believe in the 4 principles and they are the foundation of the program. And have served me well, in the bigger picture, to my life. Just in the recovery this past week from surgery - the PR principle that has been totally abandoned has made all the difference in the world in my rehab. THAT is how this stuff carries over and why it’s so important.