5-Day Split

Training Bodybuilding
21

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Perhaps you forget that for a drug-free bodybuilder, just adding shit so that some internet guy things your routine is no longer “dry” is not such a good idea?
We can’t rely on test to boost our strength gains.

Modok’s “bodypart once weekly?” thread touched on that subject nicely… For a natty, doing everything once a week with, say, 4 sets of 12 (all sets at working weight) and 3-5 main exercises per bodypart eventually has you stall out and progress in general is ridiculously slow.
You can get away with shit like that via vitamin T… But even most Pro’s would not train that way. The only one I can think of right now is Evan Centopani, who was also 260 or whatever before he hit 20 y.o…[/quote]

I gotta tell you… it is really starting to piss me off the attitude so many have in the BB forum about guys who use AAS.

Do you HONESTLY think over the past 10 years i have never trained naturally? Do you think that i dont train natural people?

And it may well shock you to know - that someone using steroids and all kinds of shit wont go very far by ‘adding in all kinds of shit’ as you say… but then again, how would you know?

That aside, i am not saying that one would do high volume all damn year round, I am simply saying for a mesocycle of a body-part-a-day split, going high volume is a valid option.

Damn.

[quote]

Add intensity techniques and what is going to happen? You stall even faster.[/quote]
Can you point out where i suggested he should do a high intensity, high volume workout? Please? I want to see where i said that.

I was saying that with such a split - due to the recovery possible, you can push it a little more than 12 sets for the quads, hamstrings and calves for a period of time, and do very well.

I honestly do not have a clue what ‘x’ pro may or may not do if natural or assisted, and honestly i don’t care about such things… pro’s current workouts have little relevance to my life or work, i save that for the fanclubs.[quote]

The point is, his workout is dry… it has no intensity principles, straight sets (IIRC) AND a low frequency… in those circumstances volume is going to be the deciding factor to increase the intensity to the muscle worked.
You said the purpose of a split is to allow you to increase the volume…
If you look at, say, PX’s old splits, he did everything once a week (2 main exercises usually per muscle-group, with shoulders and legs getting 3 originally… +1 for the pump with no regards to progression) and simply trained a single muscle-group twice a week to bring it up faster… He also does no “sets across/all sets with the same weight”, but ramped (and still does) with fairly large weight-jumps between sets.
CT has been talking along the same lines recently… Put emphasis on a muscle-group you want to bring up, have the rest at regular frequency.
I got up to 230+ from 120 by actually training everything once a week, that was
Day 1 Chest+Back
Day 2 off
Day 3 Legs
Day 4 Delts
Day 5 Arms (that includes heavy pressing for tris)
Day 6 off
Day 7 off
For example… Again, 2 main exercises per bodypart, perhaps one for the pump if I felt like it…
Of course it would be fine to suggest an increase in frequency, the addition of intensity principles, lowering rest times, or some loading protocol such as pyramiding or waves… but then it wouldn’t be his workout. I worked up to a single top-set on each main exercise, too, generally for 6-8 or 8-15 or whatever… Not that this is the only way or anything…[/quote]

Ahahahaa! That is hilarious! Writing up proX’s programs of yore!

I respect professor X. He is a very knowledgeable guy and i like reading knowledgeable posts… however i am NOT one of the sheep around here who is very quick to suck off someone because they are big and/or knowledgeable.

I have a little more substance than that - so posting a program assuming i will fall to my knees exclaiming- “well if Professor X did (whatever) then that must be the best, most effective and only way i need to be aware of”

Get a grip!

Look, you are making points that are very valid and useful - except you seem to be mistaking me with someone else.
I never said nor did i imply that training once a week is not effective.

This may shock you to hear - i know it is blasphemy on this site, but I am not interested in what the ‘big guys are interested in’ - not purely as they are big and must be doing something right - a fundamentally flawed point of view by the way - i am interested in what works for myself and my clients.

I am not interested in the biggest guys, but the guys who probably aren’t quite the biggest but have tried every damn thing imaginable to get to where they are.

A friend of mine - no, lifetime drug free - he puts on muscle so easily, he doesn’t supplement with protein as he finds it increases his size too much… he is around 250 or 260 and 5’5".
Are you really saying that this guy will know what works for me, a 5’8" ecto who has a significantly harder time adding muscle? Probably not hmm.

Thanks for that - particularly uninspiring and unnecessary assault based purely on your own ignorance.

It may interest you to know that today i dropped from high volume to a lowER volume plan - as i do… with all the T i am able to just throw all kinds of shit at it and grow…

1x/wk freq.
5 day split
4-8 sets per bodypart.

Of course i party all weekend and eat nothing but shit, but of course the drugs mean i can do that and continue to progress…

22

Thanks for the suggestions on my 5-day split. It’s been a couple years since I’ve done a true split. Thoughts after my first day:

  1. My total weight lifted per week is going to be significantly lower, by at least 25-30%. I realized this after doing my first exercise at normal weight, then having to cut back on the next 3 exercises due to fatigue from hitting the same muscle group over and over again. Hopefully the intensity of doing all my exercises for a particular muscle group on the same day will make up for the 25-30% drop in iron pushed each week.

  2. The limiting muscle group on my chest day turned out to be my triceps rather than my chest. I felt like I could have hit my chest harder, but my triceps were dead halfway through the workout.

Lifts today were dumbbell flat bench, decline barbell bench, flyes, and incline machine press.

I’m sure I’ll be able to do more as my body adjusts to the new routine, but any thoughts on making the most of a split routine are appreciated.

23

[quote]forlife wrote:
I’m getting bored with my current routine, and would like to try a 5 day split next. What do you think about the following:

Monday - Chest

Tuesday - Back

Wednesday - Biceps/Triceps

Thursday - Legs

Friday - Shoulders/Abs

I’m planning on 4 total exercises and 3 sets/exercise for each day (4 chest exercises, 2 biceps/2 triceps exercises, etc.). [/quote]

ok bro my suggestion:

Arms
Legs
Back
Chest
Off
Shoulders
Off

vs yours:
-biceps will be more tired on the first split after doing back. I put the day off after chest to be able to perform better at pressing on the shoulder work.

Hope it helps.

24

[quote]J-J wrote:
I gotta tell you… it is really starting to piss me off the attitude so many have in the BB forum about guys who use AAS. [/quote] I have no issues with people using gear.
I have issues with people using gear, weighing 210 lbs and giving natties on here advice that pretty much goes against what usually works well for drug-free bodybuilders…

Did I claim that you said that? [quote]

I was saying that with such a split - due to the recovery possible, you can push it a little more than 12 sets for the quads, hamstrings and calves for a period of time, and do very well.
[/quote] There are the magical sets again. Which somehow are going to do… What? Is doing 4 work sets of squats going to make his quads a lot bigger than doing 3, or just 2 or 1? I have not seen you mention anything about “fast progression” or the effects of your suggestions on progression etc yet, can’t be important then…? That is my main problem with your advice here. You keep talking about volume and sets and how no one likes you because you’re on gear or whatever, but you never focus on anything that’s going to get forlife anywhere. You simply came into the thread saying “hey, you can do more sets homie”. Very helpful.

[quote]

I honestly do not have a clue what ‘x’ pro may or may not do if natural or assisted, and honestly i don’t care about such things… pro’s current workouts have little relevance to my life or work, i save that for the fanclubs. [/quote] And you told me I was missing the point… [quote]

Ahahahaa! That is hilarious! Writing up proX’s programs of yore!
[/quote] The split there was, as I said, my own. I mentioned PX’s and CT’s approaches as additional examples so you could see the similarities. A big problem for you?

I respect professor X. He is a very knowledgeable guy and i like reading knowledgeable posts… however i am NOT one of the sheep around here who is very quick to suck off someone because they are big and/or knowledgeable. [/quote] Hmmm. So there are 2 skinny guys and 1 skinny-fat guy. They got big and strong using very similar principles, (drug-free, though I better not mention that as it will cause you to throw a tantrum again?..). Acknowledging that would however not help your argument much, so you misunderstand me on purpose. What do you think this is? Tryouts for the high school debating team? [quote]

I have a little more substance than that - so posting a program assuming i will fall to my knees exclaiming- “well if Professor X did (whatever) then that must be the best, most effective and only way i need to be aware of” [/quote] See above. [quote]

Get a grip!

Look, you are making points that are very valid and useful - except you seem to be mistaking me with someone else.
I never said nor did i imply that training once a week is not effective.[/quote] Neither did I claim that you did… So how come you mention this now? I posted one of my own old splits with some additional data to show you that you need neither additional intensity techniques OR additional volume to get to decent size as a natty… Neither of those things are the stuff one should focus on when creating ones’ split.

[quote]

Ahh… we get to it - finally. After it all it becomes clear you simply have a problem with guys using steroids.
[/quote] You’ve said that before. [quote]
(or if you get some extra t), the more useless shit you can add and still get stronger

Honestly? Really? How about this, you should not talk about things you CLEARLY have no idea about[/quote] That kind of works both ways, doesn’t it. [quote]. You are an accomplished lifter, i have no doubt - but your opinion here is not only wrong (just simply wrong - not incorrect as it relates to me, but just wrong) but it is also small minded.
[/quote] Of course, now you are going to claim that adding vitamin T to the mix is not going to give you a nice boost in strength-gains. Or that guys on gear can’t work with more volume than natties…? Okay.

[quote]

This may shock you to hear - i know it is blasphemy on this site, but I am not interested in what the ‘big guys are interested in’ - not purely as they are big and must be doing something right - a fundamentally flawed point of view by the way - i am interested in what works for myself and my clients. [/quote] You claim that I dislike people who use gear… Then I’ll just go ahead and claim that you are a bitter little guy who hates people who got bigger than you did…
Jesus man, you bring up every little strawman argument there is… Who says I’m only talking about guys with miracle genetics or anything like that?
And how would you even know that some big dude got that way due to his genetics or whatever? Maybe your smaller guy who “tried every damn thing imaginable” simply didn’t do the right stuff? (that, of course, is completely impossible. Right? … ) [quote]

I am not interested in the biggest guys, but the guys who probably aren’t quite the biggest but have tried every damn thing imaginable to get to where they are. [/quote] Yes, it would be terrible if someone hadn’t tried “every damn thing imaginable” to end up in… Mediocrity. I mean, guys who’ve actually found what works(or took advice from guys bigger than them! Oh no!) are all irrelevant anyway, somehow.
What’s next? Other people can’t train like me (or Professor X, gotta mention him just to piss you off) because they are so radically different that it won’t work? [quote]

A friend of mine - no, lifetime drug free - he puts on muscle so easily, he doesn’t supplement with protein as he finds it increases his size too much… he is around 250 or 260 and 5’5".
Are you really saying that this guy will know what works for me, a 5’8" ecto who has a significantly harder time adding muscle? Probably not hmm. [/quote] Whether he exists or not, point out where I said “listen to the biggest genetic freaks ever”.
I mentioned pros because only a select few of the greatest freaks among them can apparently get to their size training the way you are suggesting here… (and yes, I do know that, seeing as how I’ve had my share of conversations with some of them about this very topic) And instead choose a less volume-focused approach. Why would that be? I mean, hey, they all have better genetics than you and me… So why is the main difference between, say, Branch’s routine and some 5 or 6-way of mine that he has maybe one exercise more in there per muscle-group (usually flyes or some such) ? That’s it?
Maybe I’m also genetically gifted… ? Must be the case, even though I could never hang with anyone like branch…

But wait, the way I train has worked perfectly fine for a whole bunch of guys of perfectly average genetics…

[quote]

Thanks for that - particularly uninspiring and unnecessary assault based purely on your own ignorance.
[/quote] Not my fault that you’re trying so hard to misunderstand me here, just so you can make your strawman arguments based on that… [quote]
It may interest you to know that today i dropped from high volume to a lowER volume plan - as i do… with all the T i am able to just throw all kinds of shit at it and grow…

1x/wk freq.
5 day split
4-8 sets per bodypart.

Of course i party all weekend and eat nothing but shit, but of course the drugs mean i can do that and continue to progress…[/quote]
Bitter, bitter…

And once again, no mention of progression and the like.

Hey, it’s been a while since I’ve had my last e-argument, thanks.

25

[quote]forlife wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions on my 5-day split. It’s been a couple years since I’ve done a true split. Thoughts after my first day:

  1. My total weight lifted per week is going to be significantly lower, by at least 25-30%. I realized this after doing my first exercise at normal weight, then having to cut back on the next 3 exercises due to fatigue from hitting the same muscle group over and over again. Hopefully the intensity of doing all my exercises for a particular muscle group on the same day will make up for the 25-30% drop in iron pushed each week.

  2. The limiting muscle group on my chest day turned out to be my triceps rather than my chest. I felt like I could have hit my chest harder, but my triceps were dead halfway through the workout.
    [/quote] You don’t really need more than 2 pressing exercises for the chest, try it out that way and then give your tris a good session with Pin CGP’s, 2 or 3-board CGP’s or some such on a different day (just one of them, plus and extension or pullover extension and maybe a third exercise if you feel the need… Focus on really getting stronger on that pressing exercise for your tris.

Also, what’s your setup and grip-width like on your chest exercises? Do you go to lockout or close to it?
Bottom half reps are perfectly fine for chest training on most chest presses.

(Though if you do a “lot” of work sets per exercise and have 3-4 presses on chest day, then obviously fatigue will accumulate in your assisting musculature even if your technique etc all focus on the chest)[quote]

Lifts today were dumbbell flat bench, decline barbell bench, flyes, and incline machine press.
I’m sure I’ll be able to do more as my body adjusts to the new routine, but any thoughts on making the most of a split routine are appreciated.[/quote]
Exercise selection, technique, not doing a ton of work sets per exercise (esp. if you go with moderate to high reps)… Etc. Also, not having a fatigued back or shoulders when doing chest work and all that stuff.
I can train the tris the day after delt day just fine, even though I do heavy pressing work for the tris which should suffer from fatigued shoulders. Doesn’t suffer though, as I only do as much on my overhead work as I need to do in order to progress well.
If, however, I were to do
(delt day)
-Mil Press 4x12xsame weight
-arnold press 3x12xsame weight
-front raises
etc
Then doing heavy free-weight CGP’s the day after would not work all that well.

Another thing, take your time between exercises. Being gassed/not yet recovered from one exercise to the next isn’t going to help your numbers, obviously.

Post your exercises, work sets and rep ranges here in detail maybe, and people can give you some tips…

26

CC, right now my chest and shoulders are lagging the most so I would like to give them some extra focus. On my chest exercises, I usually go to lockout or if fatigued, I sometimes just do upper half of the range. I’ll do some experimenting with lower half reps.

For tomorrow’s back day, I’m planning on:

Weighted chinups
Bent over barbell rows
Seated parallel machine rows
Seated supinated machine rows

All are as heavy as I can go for 8-10 reps, 3 sets each exercise. My first set is usually 90% of the weight of my last 2 sets.

27

[quote]forlife wrote:
CC, right now my chest and shoulders are lagging the most so I would like to give them some extra focus. On my chest exercises, I usually go to lockout or if fatigued, I sometimes just do upper half of the range. I’ll do some experimenting with lower half reps. [/quote] Upper half is more tris… Yeah, go with bottom half or up to two thirds.
Thing is, if you are either using your tris too much on chest work or simply have wimpy tris, then you’ll have to bring their strength up somehow or adjust your technique (if the first case is true)/find different exercises… [quote]

For tomorrow’s back day, I’m planning on:

Weighted chinups
Bent over barbell rows
Seated parallel machine rows
Seated supinated machine rows

All are as heavy as I can go for 8-10 reps, 3 sets each exercise. My first set is usually 90% of the weight of my last 2 sets.[/quote]
Why not ditch the parallel machine rows or the supinated ones and put in inverted rows or face pulls or whatever… Or deadlifts/rack pulls. Or even another width exercise if width is a weakness of yours.

By the time you get to those supinated rows after all those other sets, your back will be so fried that you’ll be lifting peanuts (or using your arm flexors way too much).

Totally murdering your back is all fine and nice if you write articles for muscle and fitness, but what does that actually mean for your progress? You’re not the youngest anymore, either…

Maybe consider some of these things when picking your exercises and the amount of them:

a) Why is that exercise in my routine? Does it serve a real purpose? Do I already have 1 or more exercise that pretty much do the same thing in that session?
b) How well can I progress on it?
c) Can I do it without hurting in the wrong places? Any possible long-term issues, perhaps in combination with the other exercises I’m already doing (i.e. a ton of rowing + pullups and whatnot with not-so-great technique and you may well end up with bicep tendonitis)
d) How’s my technique? Am I turning pullups into a bicep exercise? Do I retract my scapulae as part of every rowing rep?

28

Excellent questions, I’ll keep them in mind.

I have strong tris, but they tend to take over on my chest presses. I’ll focus on the bottom 2/3 of the range next Monday, as well as keeping flyes as an isolation exercise.

Back workout today:

Weighted pullups
Seated parallel machine rows
One arm dumbbell rows
Flat overhead dumbbell extensions

Unlike yesterday’s chest workout, I found my back was resilient throughout the workout and didn’t have to cut my weight much.