5/3/1 Injury Comeback

Bigger Stronger Leaner Jim Wendler 5/3/1 Coaching
1

Mr. Wendler,

The training maxes for my last cycle before I got injured were supposed to be:

Squat-388
Bench-302
Deadlift-445
Press-177

I had a low back strain. I trained around it, and had to drop squatting, deadlifting, and leg pressing.

I took 24 days off of those movements and tried to do hack squats up to 5 rep maxes, shrugs, etc to try to keep from being a total sack of crap.

In that time I also did 45 minutes of mobility a day to try to rehab the areas and correct my form. (It worked out nicely.)

Since then I have hit what felt like true maxes of:

Squat: 365
Deadlift: 405
Leg Press: 630 x 10 (PR. Left a few in the tank here.)
(Leg Press form was knees touching shoulders at bottom).

Where should I start back?

Squatting and deadlifting have become a way of life for me since starting your program several hundred pounds ago.

Should I do a training max based on my new 1RM, even though they are substantially lighter than my old TM, and just make bigger jumps where appropriate? Or, should I just do it as written with the 10 lb jumps regardless of how it feels?

PS: After I injured my back, my bench and overhead press literally jumped about 25 lbs. It was like magic.

2

Hey, on a side note;
Depending how you have recovered, you may want to do the two day split for a cycle of two so you are not squatting and deadlifting heavy in the same week. I was in the same boat and I thought I was good to go and it came back as a nagging injury. the 2 day split helped a lot.

3

Base your program off of where you are now, and increase normally, only 10lbs at a time. Back injuries are nothing to take lightly, so don’t rush it. Regarding deadlifting, Jim usually says to pull double over-hand if you have any back issues. That is a built-in governor. I suggest putting a rep cap of 5 on all deadlifts as well. It just takes one shitty rep to put you back in rehab mode.

Lastly, for the love of all that is unholy and half-priced, don’t go that low on the leg press. I can’t think of anything worse for your back than balls-deep leg presses. That’s my experience, anyhow.

Good luck, my friend. I can sympathize with Gimp Back.

4

[quote]JoeyWaters wrote:
Base your program off of where you are now, and increase normally, only 10lbs at a time. Back injuries are nothing to take lightly, so don’t rush it. Regarding deadlifting, Jim usually says to pull double over-hand if you have any back issues. That is a built-in governor. I suggest putting a rep cap of 5 on all deadlifts as well. It just takes one shitty rep to put you back in rehab mode.

Lastly, for the love of all that is unholy and half-priced, don’t go that low on the leg press. I can’t think of anything worse for your back than balls-deep leg presses. That’s my experience, anyhow.

Good luck, my friend. I can sympathize with Gimp Back. [/quote]

Believe it or not, I did use double overhand deadlifts for my first session back. I did not know he recommended them.

I should also mention that I have now bought a good belt. I was going beltless before.

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I am doing massive clean up on my form.

Should I post videos of the scary reps?

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Post away!

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Form changes include:

not rolling the bar like that anymore

keeping back more acute to the floor at start of pull to prevent lower back rounding

trying to push hips through quicker

slightly wider stance/grip

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FYI - with Jokers and rep maxes built in - resetting to a lighter max doesn’t really matter. Just work up with jokers or hit a rep pr. If your back gives you problems or you are just unsure just cap your maxes - either Jokers or rep maxes - where you feel safe. That way you ae always progressing.

13

I can see where the back tweak came in. I don’t see leg drive coming off the floor, all lower back, even the lock out is lower back-driven. This is much the same reason I screwed up my back.

Post some of your latest reps from the side if you can.

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[quote]JoeyWaters wrote:
I can see where the back tweak came in. I don’t see leg drive coming off the floor, all lower back, even the lock out is lower back-driven. This is much the same reason I screwed up my back.

Post some of your latest reps from the side if you can. [/quote]

Will do.

I have an off day today, and tomorrow is squat day.

I am hoping that my best belt comes in. I have been waiting forever for that thing.

15

[quote]trivium wrote:
Mr. Wendler,

The training maxes for my last cycle before I got injured were supposed to be:

Squat-388
Bench-302
Deadlift-445
Press-177

I had a low back strain. I trained around it, and had to drop squatting, deadlifting, and leg pressing.

I took 24 days off of those movements and tried to do hack squats up to 5 rep maxes, shrugs, etc to try to keep from being a total sack of crap.

In that time I also did 45 minutes of mobility a day to try to rehab the areas and correct my form. (It worked out nicely.)

Since then I have hit what felt like true maxes of:

Squat: 365
Deadlift: 405
Leg Press: 630 x 10 (PR. Left a few in the tank here.)
(Leg Press form was knees touching shoulders at bottom).

Where should I start back?

Squatting and deadlifting have become a way of life for me since starting your program several hundred pounds ago.

Should I do a training max based on my new 1RM, even though they are substantially lighter than my old TM, and just make bigger jumps where appropriate? Or, should I just do it as written with the 10 lb jumps regardless of how it feels?

PS: After I injured my back, my bench and overhead press literally jumped about 25 lbs. It was like magic.[/quote]

I think there is a typo. You wrote “Should I do a training max based on my new 1RM, even though they are substantially lighter than my old TM” - But the differences are hardly significant. Maybe I’m reading it totally wrong or your deadlift WAS 545, not 445. That would make much more sense.

Whatever the case, use your current training maxes (not old ones): use something very similar to Beginners 5 PRO, and only use Joker 5’s - never missing. Do this for a 6 week cycle and you’ll be fine. TM have very little to do with your 1RM, especially if you have been doing this for awhile. What happens is exactly what Kevin referenced in his article about the TM.

Good luck and stay healthy.

16

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:

[quote]trivium wrote:
Mr. Wendler,

The training maxes for my last cycle before I got injured were supposed to be:

Squat-388
Bench-302
Deadlift-445
Press-177

I had a low back strain. I trained around it, and had to drop squatting, deadlifting, and leg pressing.

I took 24 days off of those movements and tried to do hack squats up to 5 rep maxes, shrugs, etc to try to keep from being a total sack of crap.

In that time I also did 45 minutes of mobility a day to try to rehab the areas and correct my form. (It worked out nicely.)

Since then I have hit what felt like true maxes of:

Squat: 365
Deadlift: 405
Leg Press: 630 x 10 (PR. Left a few in the tank here.)
(Leg Press form was knees touching shoulders at bottom).

Where should I start back?

Squatting and deadlifting have become a way of life for me since starting your program several hundred pounds ago.

Should I do a training max based on my new 1RM, even though they are substantially lighter than my old TM, and just make bigger jumps where appropriate? Or, should I just do it as written with the 10 lb jumps regardless of how it feels?

PS: After I injured my back, my bench and overhead press literally jumped about 25 lbs. It was like magic.[/quote]

I think there is a typo. You wrote “Should I do a training max based on my new 1RM, even though they are substantially lighter than my old TM” - But the differences are hardly significant. Maybe I’m reading it totally wrong or your deadlift WAS 545, not 445. That would make much more sense.

Whatever the case, use your current training maxes (not old ones): use something very similar to Beginners 5 PRO, and only use Joker 5’s - never missing. Do this for a 6 week cycle and you’ll be fine. TM have very little to do with your 1RM, especially if you have been doing this for awhile. What happens is exactly what Kevin referenced in his article about the TM.

Good luck and stay healthy.
[/quote]

I’ve been running your program for about 2 years without ever having to really reset. When I started I had a 10 rep max squat of 205. My best before this injury was 5 reps at 370. And for everyone who says it doesn’t work for bench, my bench went from 9@180 to 7@260 without stall.

Thanks for the quick response. It is very much appreciated.

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In fact, the closer I get to my goals, the more patient I become.