[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
A fetus just a mass of cells until it can function outside of the womb. (Note that I said function not walk around, feed itself, and survive on its own). It has no soul. No destiny. And its not a “miracle from god”.
[/quote]
Nice dogma.
I say you have no soul. You aren’t something special from some magic being. I or anyone else can kill you if they want and no one should care.[/quote]
I would care very much, I might be next.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
A fetus just a mass of cells until it can function outside of the womb. (Note that I said function not walk around, feed itself, and survive on its own). It has no soul. No destiny. And its not a “miracle from god”.
[/quote]
Nice dogma.
I say you have no soul. You aren’t something special from some magic being. I or anyone else can kill you if they want and no one should care.[/quote]
I would care very much, I might be next.[/quote]
You have no magic soul either, so why would that matter?
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
DD and Cortes: Like stronghold, my definition of “life” is different from others posting on here. A person, whether they’re 2 months old, 2 years old or 72 years old, is not the same as a partially developed fetus in the womb.
I have no interest in discussing the infinite numbers of hypothetical situations and “what ifs” that we can certainly come up with. With varying beliefs and definitions, abortion is a complicated topic. And I know the climate of this board.
My point was simply that with our current laws, abortion is not a crime and individuals have a choice. Not everyone thinks abortion is wrong. Some women have them. It’s their decision, their body, and their clump of cells. End of story.[/quote]
I’m not interested in hypothetical situations. I don’t care what people “think” is right and wrong. I want actual reasons. You have them, don’t you?
For all your complaining about religion, so far the only mystical, magical beliefs I’ve heard so far in this thread have come from you and your fellow pro-abortionists.
So, if it isn’t “magic,” then you should be able to kindly point me to the difference that you so keenly discern between the “clump of cells” and the 2 month old child I referred to above.
I’ll be waiting on that.
[/quote]
A fetus just a mass of cells until it can function outside of the womb. (Note that I said function not walk around, feed itself, and survive on its own). It has no soul. No destiny. And its not a “miracle from god”.
[/quote]
NO human can “survive on it’s own” and no human can “function” without other living organisms, there’s no basic function an adult can do that a single cell doesn’t perform. Only the complexity and difficulty changes. In fact there are plenty of people born without the “function” of other people still in the womb. You are claiming there is an arbitrary line at the cervix that changes the identity of a human. That is complete bullshit.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
A fetus just a mass of cells until it can function outside of the womb. (Note that I said function not walk around, feed itself, and survive on its own). It has no soul. No destiny. And its not a “miracle from god”.
[/quote]
Nice dogma.
I say you have no soul. You aren’t something special from some magic being. I or anyone else can kill you if they want and no one should care.[/quote]
I would care very much, I might be next.[/quote]
You have no magic soul either, so why would that matter?[/quote]
I just does, I am kind of irrational that way.
You may notice that an embryo is not.
[quote]TooHuman wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
DD and Cortes: Like stronghold, my definition of “life” is different from others posting on here. A person, whether they’re 2 months old, 2 years old or 72 years old, is not the same as a partially developed fetus in the womb.
I have no interest in discussing the infinite numbers of hypothetical situations and “what ifs” that we can certainly come up with. With varying beliefs and definitions, abortion is a complicated topic. And I know the climate of this board.
My point was simply that with our current laws, abortion is not a crime and individuals have a choice. Not everyone thinks abortion is wrong. Some women have them. It’s their decision, their body, and their clump of cells. End of story.[/quote]
I’m not interested in hypothetical situations. I don’t care what people “think” is right and wrong. I want actual reasons. You have them, don’t you?
For all your complaining about religion, so far the only mystical, magical beliefs I’ve heard so far in this thread have come from you and your fellow pro-abortionists.
So, if it isn’t “magic,” then you should be able to kindly point me to the difference that you so keenly discern between the “clump of cells” and the 2 month old child I referred to above.
I’ll be waiting on that.
[/quote]
A fetus just a mass of cells until it can function outside of the womb. (Note that I said function not walk around, feed itself, and survive on its own). It has no soul. No destiny. And its not a “miracle from god”.
[/quote]
NO human can “survive on it’s own” and no human can “function” without other living organisms, there’s no basic function an adult can do that a single cell doesn’t perform. Only the complexity and difficulty changes. In fact there are plenty of people born without the “function” of other people still in the womb. You are claiming there is an arbitrary line at the cervix that changes the identity of a human. That is complete bullshit.[/quote]
And yet, all laws are arbitrary lines.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
DD and Cortes: Like stronghold, my definition of “life” is different from others posting on here. A person, whether they’re 2 months old, 2 years old or 72 years old, is not the same as a partially developed fetus in the womb.
I have no interest in discussing the infinite numbers of hypothetical situations and “what ifs” that we can certainly come up with. With varying beliefs and definitions, abortion is a complicated topic. And I know the climate of this board.
My point was simply that with our current laws, abortion is not a crime and individuals have a choice. Not everyone thinks abortion is wrong. Some women have them. It’s their decision, their body, and their clump of cells. End of story.[/quote]
I’m not interested in hypothetical situations. I don’t care what people “think” is right and wrong. I want actual reasons. You have them, don’t you?
For all your complaining about religion, so far the only mystical, magical beliefs I’ve heard so far in this thread have come from you and your fellow pro-abortionists.
So, if it isn’t “magic,” then you should be able to kindly point me to the difference that you so keenly discern between the “clump of cells” and the 2 month old child I referred to above.
I’ll be waiting on that.
[/quote]
This, this, this. I’m sick and tired of seeing the same “well, we don’t know when ‘life’ begins.” The human embryo IS an organism. Period. And an organism is what class? A) non-living or B) Living. Let’s agree to B), since science has already told us the answer. So then, does human mommy carry a dog life in here tum-tum? Nooooo, that would be silly, silly. It’s a human life.
Seriously, what don’t people get about this? There is no magical swap here. It IS the same individual organism throughout it’s entire life and developmental cycle. This isn’t a point for debate. The debate is, is intentionally taking innocent human life a legitimate “choice” in a nation that supposedly values “inalienable rights.” First, necessarily, being the right to life.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
DD and Cortes: Like stronghold, my definition of “life” is different from others posting on here. A person, whether they’re 2 months old, 2 years old or 72 years old, is not the same as a partially developed fetus in the womb.
I have no interest in discussing the infinite numbers of hypothetical situations and “what ifs” that we can certainly come up with. With varying beliefs and definitions, abortion is a complicated topic. And I know the climate of this board.
My point was simply that with our current laws, abortion is not a crime and individuals have a choice. Not everyone thinks abortion is wrong. Some women have them. It’s their decision, their body, and their clump of cells. End of story.[/quote]
I’m not interested in hypothetical situations. I don’t care what people “think” is right and wrong. I want actual reasons. You have them, don’t you?
For all your complaining about religion, so far the only mystical, magical beliefs I’ve heard so far in this thread have come from you and your fellow pro-abortionists.
So, if it isn’t “magic,” then you should be able to kindly point me to the difference that you so keenly discern between the “clump of cells” and the 2 month old child I referred to above.
I’ll be waiting on that.
[/quote]
This, this, this. I’m sick and tired of seeing the same “well, we don’t know when ‘life’ begins.” The human embryo IS an organism. Period. And an organism is what class? A) non-living or B) Living. Let’s agree to B), since science has already told us the answer. So then, does human mommy carry a dog life in here tum-tum? Nooooo, that would be silly, silly. It’s a human life.
Seriously, what don’t people get about this? There is no magical swap here. It IS the same individual organism throughout it’s entire life and developmental cycle. This isn’t a point for debate. The debate is, is intentionally taking innocent human life a legitimate “choice” in a nation that supposedly values “inalienable rights.” First, necessarily, being the right to life.[/quote]
If you say so.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
DD and Cortes: Like stronghold, my definition of “life” is different from others posting on here. A person, whether they’re 2 months old, 2 years old or 72 years old, is not the same as a partially developed fetus in the womb.
I have no interest in discussing the infinite numbers of hypothetical situations and “what ifs” that we can certainly come up with. With varying beliefs and definitions, abortion is a complicated topic. And I know the climate of this board.
My point was simply that with our current laws, abortion is not a crime and individuals have a choice. Not everyone thinks abortion is wrong. Some women have them. It’s their decision, their body, and their clump of cells. End of story.[/quote]
I’m not interested in hypothetical situations. I don’t care what people “think” is right and wrong. I want actual reasons. You have them, don’t you?
For all your complaining about religion, so far the only mystical, magical beliefs I’ve heard so far in this thread have come from you and your fellow pro-abortionists.
So, if it isn’t “magic,” then you should be able to kindly point me to the difference that you so keenly discern between the “clump of cells” and the 2 month old child I referred to above.
I’ll be waiting on that.
[/quote]
This, this, this. I’m sick and tired of seeing the same “well, we don’t know when ‘life’ begins.” The human embryo IS an organism. Period. And an organism is what class? A) non-living or B) Living. Let’s agree to B), since science has already told us the answer. So then, does human mommy carry a dog life in here tum-tum? Nooooo, that would be silly, silly. It’s a human life.
Seriously, what don’t people get about this? There is no magical swap here. It IS the same individual organism throughout it’s entire life and developmental cycle. This isn’t a point for debate. The debate is, is intentionally taking innocent human life a legitimate “choice” in a nation that supposedly values “inalienable rights.” First, necessarily, being the right to life.[/quote]
Good post, though I am amazed at the claims some people I have argued with made on behalf of defending the “right to abortion” such as it isn’t alive, its not human etc…
I have always thought the ruling on Roe v. Wade based on the right of privacy is equivalent to murdering people who aren’t able to defend themselves in the privacy of ones home.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Seriously, what don’t people get about this? There is no magical swap here. It IS the same individual organism throughout it’s entire life and developmental cycle. This isn’t a point for debate. The debate is, is intentionally taking innocent human life a legitimate “choice” in a nation that supposedly values “inalienable rights.” First, necessarily, being the right to life.
Orion wrote:
If you say so.
[/quote]
Here’s the telling thing about every response of this nature. Not once have they challenged me. I made plain claims, why not falsify them? I’m claiming to argue from science, after all.
I’ll make this last one multiple guess. Human mother carries in the womb a) a dog b) a parrot c) a jackalope or d) none of the previous, as we can see by DNA testing that it is human. And, as we already know anyways, there is no organism swap-out just before birth.
If no one falsifies what I’ve said, then I’ve framed the debate correctly. This is a discussion about the “right” to take innocent human lives. Now, I can’t seem to find this right anywhere in our historic and founding documents. But, I did find this gem “The right to life.” It is–well, sadly that might be ‘was’–also a peculiar historical belief that our rights were inalienable.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]TooHuman wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
DD and Cortes: Like stronghold, my definition of “life” is different from others posting on here. A person, whether they’re 2 months old, 2 years old or 72 years old, is not the same as a partially developed fetus in the womb.
I have no interest in discussing the infinite numbers of hypothetical situations and “what ifs” that we can certainly come up with. With varying beliefs and definitions, abortion is a complicated topic. And I know the climate of this board.
My point was simply that with our current laws, abortion is not a crime and individuals have a choice. Not everyone thinks abortion is wrong. Some women have them. It’s their decision, their body, and their clump of cells. End of story.[/quote]
I’m not interested in hypothetical situations. I don’t care what people “think” is right and wrong. I want actual reasons. You have them, don’t you?
For all your complaining about religion, so far the only mystical, magical beliefs I’ve heard so far in this thread have come from you and your fellow pro-abortionists.
So, if it isn’t “magic,” then you should be able to kindly point me to the difference that you so keenly discern between the “clump of cells” and the 2 month old child I referred to above.
I’ll be waiting on that.
[/quote]
A fetus just a mass of cells until it can function outside of the womb. (Note that I said function not walk around, feed itself, and survive on its own). It has no soul. No destiny. And its not a “miracle from god”.
[/quote]
NO human can “survive on it’s own” and no human can “function” without other living organisms, there’s no basic function an adult can do that a single cell doesn’t perform. Only the complexity and difficulty changes. In fact there are plenty of people born without the “function” of other people still in the womb. You are claiming there is an arbitrary line at the cervix that changes the identity of a human. That is complete bullshit.[/quote]
And yet, all laws are arbitrary lines. [/quote]
No they are not. Laws that punish a person that did harm to another person’s life, liberty, or property are DIRECT extensions of a person’s humanity. More specifically, they are direct extensions of a person’s natural human right to self-ownership(a right to their own mind and body). The prosecution and punishment of those crimes is determined by the jurisdiction in which the person chooses to reside. That is why decentralized government ensures the most freedom. It ensures that person’s dissatisfied with the jurisdiction in which they reside can readily leave that jurisdiction. It is Central government and prohibition that breeds arbitrary laws that are inconsistent with the natural human rights of individuals.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Seriously, what don’t people get about this? There is no magical swap here. It IS the same individual organism throughout it’s entire life and developmental cycle. This isn’t a point for debate. The debate is, is intentionally taking innocent human life a legitimate “choice” in a nation that supposedly values “inalienable rights.” First, necessarily, being the right to life.
Orion wrote:
If you say so.
[/quote]
Here’s the telling thing about every response of this nature. Not once have they challenged me. I made plain claims, why not falsify them? I’m claiming to argue from science, after all.
I’ll make this last one multiple guess. Human mother carries in the womb a) a dog b) a parrot c) a jackalope or d) none of the previous, as we can see by DNA testing that it is human. And, as we already know anyways, there is no organism swap-out just before birth.
If no one falsifies what I’ve said, then I’ve framed the debate correctly. This is a discussion about the “right” to take innocent human lives. Now, I can’t seem to find this right anywhere in our historic and founding documents. But, I did find this gem “The right to life.” It is–well, sadly that might be ‘was’–also a peculiar historical belief that our rights were inalienable.
[/quote]
Yes, yes and yes.
Does not change that an embryo does not have the same rights as a born human being and for good reasons.
[quote]TooHuman wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]TooHuman wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
DD and Cortes: Like stronghold, my definition of “life” is different from others posting on here. A person, whether they’re 2 months old, 2 years old or 72 years old, is not the same as a partially developed fetus in the womb.
I have no interest in discussing the infinite numbers of hypothetical situations and “what ifs” that we can certainly come up with. With varying beliefs and definitions, abortion is a complicated topic. And I know the climate of this board.
My point was simply that with our current laws, abortion is not a crime and individuals have a choice. Not everyone thinks abortion is wrong. Some women have them. It’s their decision, their body, and their clump of cells. End of story.[/quote]
I’m not interested in hypothetical situations. I don’t care what people “think” is right and wrong. I want actual reasons. You have them, don’t you?
For all your complaining about religion, so far the only mystical, magical beliefs I’ve heard so far in this thread have come from you and your fellow pro-abortionists.
So, if it isn’t “magic,” then you should be able to kindly point me to the difference that you so keenly discern between the “clump of cells” and the 2 month old child I referred to above.
I’ll be waiting on that.
[/quote]
A fetus just a mass of cells until it can function outside of the womb. (Note that I said function not walk around, feed itself, and survive on its own). It has no soul. No destiny. And its not a “miracle from god”.
[/quote]
NO human can “survive on it’s own” and no human can “function” without other living organisms, there’s no basic function an adult can do that a single cell doesn’t perform. Only the complexity and difficulty changes. In fact there are plenty of people born without the “function” of other people still in the womb. You are claiming there is an arbitrary line at the cervix that changes the identity of a human. That is complete bullshit.[/quote]
And yet, all laws are arbitrary lines. [/quote]
No they are not. Laws that punish a person that did harm to another person’s life, liberty, or property are DIRECT extensions of a person’s humanity. More specifically, they are direct extensions of a person’s natural human right to self-ownership(a right to their own mind and body). The prosecution and punishment of those crimes is determined by the jurisdiction in which the person chooses to reside. That is why decentralized government ensures the most freedom. It ensures that person’s dissatisfied with the jurisdiction in which they reside can readily leave that jurisdiction. It is Central government and prohibition that breeds arbitrary laws that are inconsistent with the natural human rights of individuals.[/quote]
And the believe in some guiding rules makes laws somehow less arbitrary?
Not that your beliefs are necessarily shared by those who make the laws, but even if they were…
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
DD and Cortes: Like stronghold, my definition of “life” is different from others posting on here. A person, whether they’re 2 months old, 2 years old or 72 years old, is not the same as a partially developed fetus in the womb.
I have no interest in discussing the infinite numbers of hypothetical situations and “what ifs” that we can certainly come up with. With varying beliefs and definitions, abortion is a complicated topic. And I know the climate of this board.
My point was simply that with our current laws, abortion is not a crime and individuals have a choice. Not everyone thinks abortion is wrong. Some women have them. It’s their decision, their body, and their clump of cells. End of story.[/quote]
I’m not interested in hypothetical situations. I don’t care what people “think” is right and wrong. I want actual reasons. You have them, don’t you?
For all your complaining about religion, so far the only mystical, magical beliefs I’ve heard so far in this thread have come from you and your fellow pro-abortionists.
So, if it isn’t “magic,” then you should be able to kindly point me to the difference that you so keenly discern between the “clump of cells” and the 2 month old child I referred to above.
I’ll be waiting on that.
[/quote]
This, this, this. I’m sick and tired of seeing the same “well, we don’t know when ‘life’ begins.” The human embryo IS an organism. Period. And an organism is what class? A) non-living or B) Living. Let’s agree to B), since science has already told us the answer. So then, does human mommy carry a dog life in here tum-tum? Nooooo, that would be silly, silly. It’s a human life.
Seriously, what don’t people get about this? There is no magical swap here. It IS the same individual organism throughout it’s entire life and developmental cycle. This isn’t a point for debate. The debate is, is intentionally taking innocent human life a legitimate “choice” in a nation that supposedly values “inalienable rights.” First, necessarily, being the right to life.[/quote]
Good post, though I am amazed at the claims some people I have argued with made on behalf of defending the “right to abortion” such as it isn’t alive, its not human etc…
I have always thought the ruling on Roe v. Wade based on the right of privacy is equivalent to murdering people who aren’t able to defend themselves in the privacy of ones home.[/quote]
At the time of Roe V. Wade the actual process of conception wasn’t clear before the 6th day or so. In fact, the entire premise of genetic identity and the now well determined fact that two human’s cannot conceive anything except another unique human organism was absent from the evidence in the case.
In that case the court used a lot of conjecture from the stance of common law on abortion to determine a historically relevant consensus as to the “feasibility” of an unborn child. In fact, the justice who wrote the opinion of the court admitted that if it could be determined that an unborn child was a person in the meaning of the 14th amendment, that any claim to privacy by the parent was surpassed by the explicit right to life of the child.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
A fetus just a mass of cells until it can function outside of the womb. (Note that I said function not walk around, feed itself, and survive on its own). It has no soul. No destiny. And its not a “miracle from god”.
[/quote]
Nice dogma.
I say you have no soul. You aren’t something special from some magic being. I or anyone else can kill you if they want and no one should care.[/quote]
I would care very much, I might be next.[/quote]
You have no magic soul either, so why would that matter?[/quote]
I just does, I am kind of irrational that way.
You may notice that an embryo is not. [/quote]
Is not what?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
DD and Cortes: Like stronghold, my definition of “life” is different from others posting on here. A person, whether they’re 2 months old, 2 years old or 72 years old, is not the same as a partially developed fetus in the womb.
I have no interest in discussing the infinite numbers of hypothetical situations and “what ifs” that we can certainly come up with. With varying beliefs and definitions, abortion is a complicated topic. And I know the climate of this board.
My point was simply that with our current laws, abortion is not a crime and individuals have a choice. Not everyone thinks abortion is wrong. Some women have them. It’s their decision, their body, and their clump of cells. End of story.[/quote]
I’m not interested in hypothetical situations. I don’t care what people “think” is right and wrong. I want actual reasons. You have them, don’t you?
For all your complaining about religion, so far the only mystical, magical beliefs I’ve heard so far in this thread have come from you and your fellow pro-abortionists.
So, if it isn’t “magic,” then you should be able to kindly point me to the difference that you so keenly discern between the “clump of cells” and the 2 month old child I referred to above.
I’ll be waiting on that.
[/quote]
This, this, this. I’m sick and tired of seeing the same “well, we don’t know when ‘life’ begins.” The human embryo IS an organism. Period. And an organism is what class? A) non-living or B) Living. Let’s agree to B), since science has already told us the answer. So then, does human mommy carry a dog life in here tum-tum? Nooooo, that would be silly, silly. It’s a human life.
Seriously, what don’t people get about this? There is no magical swap here. It IS the same individual organism throughout it’s entire life and developmental cycle. This isn’t a point for debate. The debate is, is intentionally taking innocent human life a legitimate “choice” in a nation that supposedly values “inalienable rights.” First, necessarily, being the right to life.[/quote]
I’ll hop in here. I’ll tell you why we need abortion. This is an imperfect word, perfect moral laws don’t work here, this is the reality-zone, after a couple of turns they turn imperfect and to a mockery of themselves, like in the example of a rape, should the woman get an abortion or not. Of course abortion is a termination of a beginning life. Murder is a strongly emotional word and plays in your favour and I understand why you use it, but it isn’t entirely honest.
The life that was aborted, you didn’t know the person that was murdered and there is no-one in this world who could tell you about it. This is a sad part, the potential, and it would be great if no-one would have an abortion. All of this is sad, really, but unavoidable.
Now, 41% is way too much, and something should be done about it, if it is true, it tells of severe underlying problems. Now, I don’t know enough about things in america, where you have seperate clinics for abortion? Really? No wonder emotions run so high there.
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
The life that was aborted, you didn’t know the person that was murdered…
[/quote]
Stood out for me.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
The life that was aborted, you didn’t know the person that was murdered…
[/quote]
Stood out for me.[/quote]
That’s the word you like to use and I tried to be polite, and understandable.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
The life that was aborted, you didn’t know the person that was murdered…
[/quote]
Stood out for me.[/quote]
Dude, no one cares about bums getting murdered on the street.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
The life that was aborted, you didn’t know the person that was murdered…
[/quote]
Stood out for me.[/quote]
Dude, no one cares about bums getting murdered on the street.[/quote]
Well, that’s the truth.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
A fetus just a mass of cells until it can function outside of the womb. (Note that I said function not walk around, feed itself, and survive on its own). It has no soul. No destiny. And its not a “miracle from god”.
[/quote]
Nice dogma.
I say you have no soul. You aren’t something special from some magic being. I or anyone else can kill you if they want and no one should care.[/quote]
I would care very much, I might be next.[/quote]
You have no magic soul either, so why would that matter?[/quote]
I just does, I am kind of irrational that way.
You may notice that an embryo is not. [/quote]
Is not what?[/quote]
Irrational in any way,shape or form.
In fact, its complete inability to be irrational means that it lacks quite a lot that human beings have.