Um… Andy Bolton is 6ft tall…
[quote]Alffi wrote:
Weight is not important, height is. Weight classes are just to inflate short people’s achievements. In essence, weight classes cause short people to be ranked as superior to tall people for doing less work, which is ass backwards…at least in terms of real world strength. So powerlifting or weightlifting is not about real world strength as much as you might think.
A short person would not do well in a strongman contest because they simply don’t have the leverage to succeed in throwing events, for one thing. Tall people have been proven to lift just as much or more weight than short people so when you hear of someone this or that light lifting a lot, keep in mind that they are probably less dangerous in a fight than a 6’5 anorexic.[/quote]
I’m injured and can’t lift so I’m gonna chime in on this.
First and foremost, who cares about some random dudes standards ranking? If you do, and that helps you measure and achieve progress, great. (No sarcasm intended) If they are too low for you, even better. No need for anyone to get upset about any of it.
The big discretion is really just over the term “elite”, imo. What do you figure an average human male could total at a PL meet? I wouldn’t be surprised if it was right around 400, total. So by this measure, someone literally twice as strong as “average”, totals a mere 800. Lets use average bodyweight too, I think I’ve seen 185 used a lot. That puts a guy thats 2x stronger than average pretty squarely into Intermediate, on that chart.
Same goes for any measure vs the entire human population, imo. Do you call 6’3" elite height (taller than 99%+ of the population)?
[quote]mkral55 wrote:
Same goes for any measure vs the entire human population, imo. Do you call 6’3" elite height (taller than 99%+ of the population)? [/quote]
Well at least I’m elite in something!!! Should have been super duper elite but haven’t grown since 10th grade where I stood at a very elite 6’5"…
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]mkral55 wrote:
Same goes for any measure vs the entire human population, imo. Do you call 6’3" elite height (taller than 99%+ of the population)? [/quote]
Well at least I’m elite in something!!! Should have been super duper elite but haven’t grown since 10th grade where I stood at a very elite 6’5"…[/quote]
I’m 5’7", but I’m taller laying down - Ron Jeremy
[quote]Aaargh wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]spherenine wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]spherenine wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
I am elite in every catergory… making those standards total bullshit.[/quote]
I know you have a huge dead, but what are your squat and bench?[/quote]
I have no idea, I havent competed in a while. Best comp bench was 412 raw like 4 years ago. I got an easy 430 close grip with the fat bar a few weeks ago. I just tripled the elite squat with a safety squat bar with a 5 second pause between each rep. The only one I have not met is the clean. My best ever is 340. I am a failure.[/quote]
Shit, yo. Why aren’t you doing full comps these days?[/quote]
Mostly because of a torn hamstring/adductor magnus that isn’t getting any better. I can’t tell if it is finally starting to heal or if I am slowly caring less and less about how I feel.[/quote]
Oh, I would have never guessed, an excuse.
[/quote]
You got me, bro! I don’t even compete! I am just on here to score hot dick pix. Check your inbox 
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]Aaargh wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]spherenine wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]spherenine wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
I am elite in every catergory… making those standards total bullshit.[/quote]
I know you have a huge dead, but what are your squat and bench?[/quote]
I have no idea, I havent competed in a while. Best comp bench was 412 raw like 4 years ago. I got an easy 430 close grip with the fat bar a few weeks ago. I just tripled the elite squat with a safety squat bar with a 5 second pause between each rep. The only one I have not met is the clean. My best ever is 340. I am a failure.[/quote]
Shit, yo. Why aren’t you doing full comps these days?[/quote]
Mostly because of a torn hamstring/adductor magnus that isn’t getting any better. I can’t tell if it is finally starting to heal or if I am slowly caring less and less about how I feel.[/quote]
Oh, I would have never guessed, an excuse.
[/quote]
You got me, bro! I don’t even compete! I am just on here to score hot dick pix. Check your inbox ;)[/quote]
lulz
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
[quote]Obisidian wrote:
Those numbers were chosen by some pretty smart guys, and while the numbers (especially the elite numbers) are lower than we would expect, keep two things in mind. 1) Most powerlifting organizations increase their totals required for elite over time, so a book written–I believe–in the early 80s, would likely estimate those numbers to be a bit lower. 2) Because the numbers are very early and therefore developed before a lot of the modern equipment was released, those numbers are probably for the unequipped, or at least raw, lifter.[/quote]
Actually elite numbers have gone down over time. If I recall they were about 100 lbs heavier per class in the 80’s.[/quote]
Yup…tom63 talks about this often…There is a good debate about it on one of the Raw Unity message boards justifying why the elite totals for raw unity were set so high…
Basically the elite totals now for multi-ply WERE the elite totals (or maybe it was masters totals at elite wasnt yet a category? Cant remember) for raw lifting back in the day, when gear was nothing more than a roddshock belt and some ace bandages on the knees…as the gear got better, instead of increasing the current levels to account for the multi-ply gear, they actually just kept them where they were…that left the true raw competitors out in the dark, so the feds actually took off a percentage of the now multi-ply elite totals and made those the new raw totals, which were a couple hundred pounds below the old elite/master totals that were previously “raw”…
[/quote]
My last full meet was in 1988. The weights I listed were the lifts made that day.
My suit was very loose due to some weight cutting and the wraps were not like any today. I’m sure I could have hit 200+ pounds more with modern gear if I trained with it. Voila! Just about elite. I’d say a good guess to compare to then from now would be to take your raw total and add 50-100 lbs . It should be in the ball park. Then look at the old uspf standards.
Now elite compared to anyone can be different. I’m not trying to contradict myself, just talking about a general population vs just powerlfiters.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Those standards were measured against American football players, not powerlifters. So yea, if you use lifting as a supplemental activity and spend the majority of your training time training for football instead and can hit those numbers, you’re probably an elite level football player, but if you spend all of your training time on lifting, it’s not accurate at all.
But hey, now kids can tell all their friends that they’re intermediate lifters![/quote]
this.
for a competitive PL, not such great numbers, but it was meant as a measuring stick for athletes other than weight lifters who use the lifts just to aid or supplement their training for their sport.
In the gym I used to train at when I was throwing in college, there was a poster on the wall that stated:
“70 foot shot-put=
700lb squat + 700lb Deadlift + 500lb bench + 400lb clean”
for BIG guys (over 300lbs most of them) those are not impressive numbers for Power Lifters, and for a super heavyweight OL, a 400lb clean is pretty sad too…
but for the average non PL/OL athlete, those are big numbers.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
[quote]Obisidian wrote:
Those numbers were chosen by some pretty smart guys, and while the numbers (especially the elite numbers) are lower than we would expect, keep two things in mind. 1) Most powerlifting organizations increase their totals required for elite over time, so a book written–I believe–in the early 80s, would likely estimate those numbers to be a bit lower. 2) Because the numbers are very early and therefore developed before a lot of the modern equipment was released, those numbers are probably for the unequipped, or at least raw, lifter.[/quote]
Actually elite numbers have gone down over time. If I recall they were about 100 lbs heavier per class in the 80’s.[/quote]
Yup…tom63 talks about this often…There is a good debate about it on one of the Raw Unity message boards justifying why the elite totals for raw unity were set so high…
Basically the elite totals now for multi-ply WERE the elite totals (or maybe it was masters totals at elite wasnt yet a category? Cant remember) for raw lifting back in the day, when gear was nothing more than a roddshock belt and some ace bandages on the knees…as the gear got better, instead of increasing the current levels to account for the multi-ply gear, they actually just kept them where they were…that left the true raw competitors out in the dark, so the feds actually took off a percentage of the now multi-ply elite totals and made those the new raw totals, which were a couple hundred pounds below the old elite/master totals that were previously “raw”…
[/quote]
My last full meet was in 1988. The weights I listed were the lifts made that day.
My suit was very loose due to some weight cutting and the wraps were not like any today. I’m sure I could have hit 200+ pounds more with modern gear if I trained with it. Voila! Just about elite. I’d say a good guess to compare to then from now would be to take your raw total and add 50-100 lbs . It should be in the ball park. Then look at the old uspf standards.
Now elite compared to anyone can be different. I’m not trying to contradict myself, just talking about a general population vs just powerlfiters.[/quote]
good points!
I totaled master at 181 and missed master by only a few kg at 198 in the old ADFPA. at 181, I hit 545, 345, 500 in pretty much a singlet and knee wraps, I did have a real PL belt though. by singlet, I meant my suit was so loose I could put it on myself, as easy as putting on a swimsuit, and I kept it on the entire meet, the same suit for all three lifts.
if you have ever used the supper tight and restrictive modern gear, you will realize how little in comparison the equipment I used back then assisted my lifts.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]UnderConstuction wrote:
Some of you may be elite by those standards but a more important question is are you strong by Jim’s standards?
http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/1252
Anyone?[/quote]
lol now THOSE are elite…I rack my brain all the time trying to think of someone who could actually perform those…none come immediately to mind, but I imagine some of the pro Strongmen out there could come close…I don’t think powerlifters are suited to meet those…[/quote]
Yeah I remember that, DAYUM…thats more than just “strong”
[/quote]
agreed, It will be a while before I hit any of those numbers, by “a while” I mean NEVER, of course.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]spherenine wrote:
Intermediate. Gotta keep training, I guess.
:-/[/quote]
Not very lofty goals on that site, IMO…their elite totals are especially funny, because if you add up bench/squat/deadlift according to their criteria, it still puts you about 100 pounds below elite in the real PL sense of the word (at least for the 275 weight class).[/quote]
I don’t think those standards were made with PLers in mind.
[/quote]
So was it just a coincidence that they used powerlifting weight classes?[/quote]
The standards there are influenced by PL and WL, but are not developed for them is the impression I got based on reading about the standards on that page. In Elite, it says that only 2% of the weightlifting population reaches that level. So basically, walk into random gyms and only 2 out of hundred people are going to be that strong.
I can believe that. Outside of a PL or football gym, I’ve never even seen a 500lb legitimate squat. I’ve only seen a couple of people bench 400lb and one person bench 500 (I’ve seen these #s plenty in a PL gym). Sure, in the higher levels of strength sports, these standards don’t mean jack shit, but for the vast majority of the population, it makes since.
[/quote]
That was my impression too. Here is what they say about elite:
To me this means that at the elite level, you’ll generally only see people who specifically compete in strength sports, not that this is elite for a strength sport.