32 and Getting Frustrated with Docs

Pharma TRT
1

Ok so I’m 32. Finally got my doc to test my test levels and came back below normal. Don’t have the ok labs with me but basically she tested just my Cbc and basic labs. prescribed 100 mg of test see per week. Wanted to recheck test levels after three months. In the meantime I researched recommended TRT protocols and contacted her about read drawing labs in six weeks. She declined and said three months would be the best. So I took it upon myself to find another doctor to continue my treatment.

After four weeks of 100 mg shots once a week I broke them up into two shots per week of 50 mg apiece. This was because I had no idea of what my estradiol levels were and did not want to be high and not have any idea where I was. My shots were on Sunday night and Wednesday morning. My appointment with a new doctor was on a Monday afternoon, I went in just for consultation into talk to him about his protocol on his TRT treatment. he wanted to check my levels since I was there even though I did my shot that I before. Below are the levels that he checked and I would like to know if anyone has any input on where I am with my levels.

Dhea 336 (31-701)

Estradiol 30.6 (7.6-42.6)

Test,free and total
Test serum 632 (348-1197)
Free test 14.7 (8.7-25.1)

At this point I am slowly losing some fat and building slight strength I know that my levels are not peaked out due to taking labs the day after injection, but I do see that my estradiol levels are a little on the higher end. I have an appointment with another doctor to review my labs and get his opinion and his protocol on his TRT treatment so if anyone has any suggestions or questions that you think that I should ask while I am there please feel free to give me any information and it would be greatly appreciated.

2

those are some pretty decent numbers, as you said estrogen a little high but not by much. HOW DO YOU FEEL? Don’t chase labs, chase how you feel. Are you taking an AI? hcg?

3

I’m not taking any hcg or ai. I feel better than when I was low, but I’ve noticed since switching to 2 shots a week, I am not feeling as energetic and upbeat of a mood than when I was doing them once a week. The trade off is at once a week I don’t know where my e levels are and around day 5/6 I feel drained. So I don’t know if my dose needs adjusted or if I need a small dose of an ai. The reason for no hcg is both doctors I have seen have said there’s no need for it since I am not having any more kids and have had a vasectomy.

4

Those numbers look pretty good. Was that a sensitive E2 test?

It might be beneficial to get some bloodwork done the morning of your next injection, but before you inject.

5

Ok. I am going to def make that a point at my next visit. As far as the feeling not as good as the once a week shot, should I maybe ask about increasing the dose by 15-25mg per shot and recheck my levels after that to see if it raised any more levels or energy?

6

Is that E2 value from a sensitive test?

7

Yes it was the sensitive but not the ultra sensitive.

8

Have you also read the thyroid basics sticky, checked body temperatures and considered your long term intake of iodized salt or vitamins that list iodine?

Please provide more info about you as per the advice for new guys sticky.

How long dosing twice a week before the last lab work? Your TTlevels do seem low.

9

Heres all my info, I was on my phone when I started and didn’t read into all the sticky info. It helps to pay attention lol.

In your case/thread opening post:
-32

-5’8"

-38 inch waist

-215 lbs

-Body hair is typical leg and arm with some chest hair, not overly hairy

-Most of my fat is carried in my stomach,abs,thighs… its been like that since I was 20-22. When I was 26 I worked with a trainer and went from 230-175lbs and could never lose that stubborn last bit and had a hard time building muscle size even if i ate 3500-400 calories

-Past Health-Had some anxiety issues and depression, but worked through them on my own through diet changing… Meds that I tried made me feel like I was not me so i stopped them.

-No Rx drugs now other than 100mgs of test cyp. a week

-Original Labs that I finally have in front of me
8/25/14

c-reactive protien, Quant— 3.9mg/l (0-4.9)

Sedimentation Rate-Westergreen---- 9mm/hr (0-15)

T3---- 138ng/dl (71-180)

GLucose, Serum---- 68mg/dl (65-99)

T4,free direct---- 1.43ng/dl (0.82-1.77)

TSH---- 3.200 ulu/ml (0.450-4.500)

Test serum---- 320ng/dl (348-1197)

Trigly---- 54mg/dl (0-149)

Cholesterol---- 190mg/dl (100-199)

HDL---- 60mg/dl (>39)

LDL---- 119mg/dl (0-99)

VLDL---- 11mg/dl (5-40)

Hemocrit---- 46.1% (37.5-51.0)

Hemoglobin---- 15.5g/dl (12.6-17.7)

Lymphs---- 25% (14-46%)

RBC---- 5.31 (4.14-5.80)

RDW---- 13.3 (12.3-15.4)

WBC---- 8.7 (3.4-10.8)

-Diet consists of Lean meats mostly, Veggies that are worth eating, almond butter, olive oil, coconut oil, ezekiel bread, steel cut oats, once or twice a week go out to eat with family or guys from work.

-Training consists of weights 5-6 days a week… usually a 5 day split, or 1 heavy day 1 light day split up, cardio mixed in here and there… at the beginning of the year I was back up to 253 lbs and a 42-44 inch waist and have worked down to 215 with a 38 inch waist

-No testicular ache prior to TRT, some since i started, slight atrophy. It was more noticeable when I was doing 100mg in one shot

-Prior to I rarely had morning wood and nightly erections, but now it is a lot more frequent. around 4 out of 7 days/nights

I just read the thyroid sticky, I will start checking my temps this week to see where I am once i get a trusty thermometer.

The dosing 2 times a week I had done for 1.5 weeks prior to my lab work, and it was done the day after an injection in the afternoon. Prior to I had done 4 injections at 100mg per week, but by the 5th/6th day I felt horrible, so i decided to try the 2 times a week at 50mg each. It seems to be better , but i feel like I do not have the amount of energy I had when I did the once a week shot and my mood is not as good on the twice a week shot. I can tell that I’m a lot more irritable.

10

TSH > 1 means that you probably have some type of functioning Hypothyroid.

You should be closer to .9-1 on the TSH, what are your morning temps like? You should get vitamin D checked as well as RT3.

Also, read the Thyroid sticky.

11

Agreed. TSH is up and T3 and fT4 are above mid range. But need body temps to confirm this possibility.

Have you been using iodized salt for a long time - continuously?

E2=30 is starting to become an issue.

12

Thanks for the input. I ordered some rc arimidex to do one drop when I do my shots.
Going to get a good thermometer to monitor my temps and will post those soon. I really do appreciate the help.

As far as the iodine question I have not used iodized salt for quite awhile that I am aware of.

13

Not using iodized salt leads to problems. I don’t understand how society has forgotten the importance of iodine.

Is your thyroid enlarged, asymmetrical or feels lumpy?

You should ensure that you have a selenium supplement. You can find a multi-vit that has selenium, iodine and other trace elements.

14

You don’t want selenium in a multivite-too many interactions can turn it into pure selenium which is almost zero for bioactiv(which is why the ld50 for pure selenium is so high). This happens also in overfarmed soils and soils with too much aluminum or iron. Most elements are the opposite…more bioactive when pure. Ive seen at least one article that showed iodized salt was only 10 percent bio avail…which is probably why places like finland put it directly in animal feed instead. You might want to check tpo antibodies on your blood tests.

15

[quote]sameul11 wrote:
You don’t want selenium in a multivite-too many interactions can turn it into pure selenium which is almost zero for bioactiv(which is why the ld50 for pure selenium is so high). This happens also in overfarmed soils and soils with too much aluminum or iron. Most elements are the opposite…more bioactive when pure. Ive seen at least one article that showed iodized salt was only 10 percent bio avail…which is probably why places like finland put it directly in animal feed instead. You might want to check tpo antibodies on your blood tests.[/quote]

You are contradicting a lot of research based science and recommendations. So without evidence cited by you, you are been irresponsible.

See this: Selenium - Stop The Thyroid Madness

Selenium: ORAL (LD50): Acute: 6700 mg/kg [Rat]
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924874

Selenium in supplements is 200 micro grams. LD50 in rats is 6,700,000 micrograms per kg. For a 70 kg human, that would be 469,000,000 micrograms.

16

You are contradicting a lot of research based science and recommendations. So without evidence cited by you, you are been irresponsible.

See this: Selenium - Stop The Thyroid Madness

Selenium: ORAL (LD50): Acute: 6700 mg/kg [Rat]
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924874

"
Toxicity

For the present purposes, toxicity is characterized as acute or chronic. Acute poisoning typically involves a single dose that produces symptoms within min to hr, whereas chronic poisoning involves smaller doses given repeatedly, producing symptoms that become apparent over days or longer. Selenium toxicity is determined on the basis of signs and symptoms in the individual subject, not by laboratory values [10]. The strong garlic-like odor usually present in both acute and chronic poisoning is attributed to the volatile metabolite dimethylselenide [2,6]. This odor has also been described in the breath of individuals with sub-toxic exposure.

Different chemical forms of selenium can have vastly different toxic potentials. For example, when given orally to rats, the average lethal dose (LD50) was 7 mg Se/kg body wt for sodium selenite, 138 mg Se/kg for selenium sulfides (as formulated for anti-dandruff shampoos), and 6700 mg Se/kg for elemental selenium [11]."

I would say an LD50 of 6700 mg/kg vs 7mg Se/kg is a large difference wouldn’t you? They explain this difference by pure selenium not being absorbed by the body. I’m not sure what research you are talking about what I mention is something that I’ve consistently read, by people doing soil research and testing the LD50s of the different forms of selenium. And the fact that simple chemical reactions can render selenium nonbiologically active is of extreme importance. Especially considering that it is a micronutrient that it is essential to life. In soils with aluminum or iron and plenty of selenium, plants will be selenium deficient. Do you think its unreasonable to think the iron in a multivitamin could cause the selenium selenite to turn into pure selenium?

Selenium in supplements is 200 micro grams. LD50 in rats is 6,700,000 micrograms per kg. For a 70 kg human, that would be 469,000,000 micrograms.
[/quote]

You do know that there is generally a 50-100 factor difference in the LD50 for humans vs rats, yes?

17

Hey ksman thanks for the info especially in the thyroid sticky. I do have a couple questions since there are so many people chiming in on the sticky I got kind of lost.

  1. The 50mg daily dosage for iodine, what source should I use for that?

  2. As far as a probiotic, do you suggest a supplement for that or is simply a good greek yogurt with active cultures in it sufficient?

  3. For the selenium is the amount in most multivitamins good enough or should I maybe find some alternative?

  4. How long should I wait to do my tsh labs after doing the IR?

Once again thanks for your time I greatly appreciate it and all the info you put out there for us guys new to all this.

18

Any help on the ?'s

19

Ok here’s my temps for today

Morning waking- 97.8
Afternoon 3pm- 98.7

Have not supplemented iodine yet. Any suggestions? Looking back at when my labs were drawn my doc was pushing around on my neck prior to labs like 20 mins prior to my draw.