In Wendler’s 5/3/1 for powerlifting he suggests reading a book by William Llewellyn called “Anabolics.” In it the author gives several sample cycles and explains the pros and cons of each. I’ve been on TRT for three years and have just recently increased by weekly dosage from 150mg to 300mg. According to Llewellyn the most effective way to use Test Cyp is to start with 200mg, then jump to 400mg for 4 weeks, 500 mg for 4 weeks then back to 200 mg for week #10. Has anyone used this type of program? My 300mg per week has been good but I’m wondering if changing the dosage as stated in the book would be more effective. Thanks!
Based on the fact that states to use .5mg-1mg of Anastrozole daily I can tell you it’s bunk and outdated. Tamoxifen at 20mg daily is good if and only if you have reason to believe you are prone to gyno. I see no need to taper test up like that…tapering at the end is different however.
Would 400-500mg be more “effective” than 300mg? Absolutely, but your own gear and risk tolerance is a personal choice.
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As I understand it the pyramid dosage (yours is a variation of the pyramid) doesn’t actually return any appreciable difference. As I understand it, the best way to get the best results is by way of as stable as possible hormone levels. That’s what I have come to understand and abide by.
Now the pyramid is supposed to have certain benefits such as it goes up then down allowing a softer crash post cycle, you are tapering off. Well modern science tells us this is BS because suppression is suppression, period. The slight possible benefit of having synthetic levels just below natural levels this allowing some natural production to kick on to supplement the synthetic is first just a theory and second, the long half life of the ester naturally builds in a taper down. The long half-life allows a period where synthetic levels are below what natural levels would be if production was on. The theory is once those synthetic levels are below that natural would be level then the body would tell itself it needs more test and allow some natural production to supplement the very low synthetic level. The long half-life already allows this period, tapering doesn’t help achieve this level or make it any softer, it would just drag it out for a longer period if you were taking very very low dosage.
Another supposed benefit of the pyramid is for the estrogen sides, back then they didn’t have AIs or SERMs so playing with dosage is one of the ways they could possibly avoid estrogen sides. Doing a pyramid now with what we have available and risking the “hormone rollercoaster” that will take place is just dumb. These fluctuating levels will not benefit you. They will only works against you. So why risk it if there is no possible benefit.
As stated that arimidex dosage is very high, everyone is different but that is still high. For 400-500mg per week I bet 0.5mgs on injection day would be more than enough and that is assuming you have some high estrogen side effects at that level. Most guys don’t have them in that dosage range.
Switching from 400 to 500 for a few weeks only increases the average about 14mgs a day. After you adjust for ester weight then you are looking at about 8mgs of raw test, not an appreciable amount when going from an average of 41 then to 50 (Rough estimate of raw test after adjusting for ester weight).
That jump might help you get a little extra but I doubt it. My experience has taught me that keeping a nice relatively stable level of hormones is how I get the best end result. Everyone is different though.
Fyi and this is my theory but I feel it’s based in something legit. I think the whole pyramid thing got pushed around so much because there is this old interview with Arnold Schwarzenegger where he talking about steroid usage then talks about pyramiding. They way it is edited it looks like he is saying the “trick” is to pyramid steroids but if you get the while interview and pay attention then when he is talking about pyramiding he has moved onto the subject of weights and reps. He is talking about pyramiding the weights with reps. Start with low weight high reps then work up to very high weight and low reps then work back down to low weight high reps. The interview is just edited weird and it seems like he is talking about pyramiding steroids. So everyone started doing it and sense they were getting results because they were on steroids they thought the results were due in part to the pyramiding of the dosage. They told their friends and BAM we still have people swearing they owe their results to pyramiding their dosage when really the results are because they are simply on steroids.
That’s my theory on where and why pyramiding was done so much and why it’s still being passed around.
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Thanks guys…my body responds very well to test cypionate. On a relatively low dose (150mg per week) my numbers went from under 200 to around 800 ng/dL. I increased my dosage to 300 mg per week and my test went up to 1400 ng/dL. It sounds like there is no reason at all to increase and decrease dosage as shown in the book, just coast with high test and little to no side effects. My only other question would be, for powerlifting or strongman exercises, would another increase be helpful or is 1400 a high enough level to be at?
@amdd1124
What kind of gains do you see from a 300mg cycle that puts you at 1400ng? At 185mg my total T is 2000 and I don’t look or feel like I do when I’m on 500mg. I just can’t imagine 300mg being worth the hassle. I don’t mean to sound like I’m shitting on your idea I’m truly interested what you get from 300mg. Maybe I’m doing it wrong.
185mg
Just seconding you pointing out the AI advice is terrible.
But also, I am starting my first blast after being on trt for a while now. I get to about 1000 ng/dl on 150 mg a week. I went to 325 mg/wk. Research shows that low dosage does work, but increasing dose will increase results (both good and bad results). At these dosages we are far from where diminishing returns occur. We could double the dose and get almost double the results according to research.
We are on trt, so getting a bunch out of a single cycle isn’t necessary. We are already shut down. We can do several low side cycles vs one big one.
I’m going to add var for the last 6 weeks of my 14 week cycle. I figure I’ll basically get no sides from that, but should get a bit of strength for a powerlifting meet. I’m just adding var because I’m getting it for free from a buddy that is older and won’t use it because it impacts his BP to much.
@mnben87 Let me know how it goes with the Var. I was gonna run Prop/NPP/Mast but I’m thinking of just doing test and var. The NPP scares me a bit.
Will do. It will be a month or so until I start on it. My only real concern is if it is actually var. I would hope I would be able to tell if dbol, but it definitely could be something like winny and I would not know.
I’ve heard strength is good on var. Probably does not compare to dbol, drol or even winny though.
@mnben87
That’s my concern with var. I wish there was a definite way to know without spending an arm & a leg. I’m worried about getting winstrol in it’s place. That shit had me feeling horrible. I’m subscribed to hearing your results as well and good luck with the gainz
No worries I appreciate the question. TRT has worked very well for me but as far as how much I’m getting out of doubling the dosage…I am not 100% sure to be honest. I can tell you that I expected larger gains than I have seen…my bench and DL have not increased at all, only my squat has gone up. This could be the Test or it could be better training and more access to better equipment too. My thought now is to increase dosage, pin twice or three times per week and see if that works.