3 Mile Cardio

Training Bodybuilding
21

[quote]PGJ wrote:
dhuge67 wrote:
Roland Fisher wrote:
Nail wrote:
Politico wrote:
Some of you running gurus who definitely seem to know more than me and Dhuge about strategy should definitely write a big post about training, strategy and leg lifting for longer runners!

Training - Long, intervals, hills, tempo, and easy runs. Mix it up, They all help.

Strategy - Spend some time in the trenches. Every runner is different.

Leg lifting - The best way to strengthen your legs is through more running. Lifting is not going to help very much.

Nail has never coached any runners, I know from this post, don’t pay any attention to it.

I lift with my lower body, and I run too, so I’m not about to throw out Squats, Deads or Lunges…

For legs, since you are getting ready for OCS, just go find the largest backpack you can get (Alice pack if you can find one). Fill it with sandbags or weight plates (at lest 40-50lbs), then go walk in the woods for about an hour. Do this on non-cardio days. You’ve got to get your feet and walking muscles in condition. If you don’t already have a pair of combat boots, get some now.

[/quote]I’ve got some Bates Lights. I’ll alternate those with Nike Free Trail shoes, so I wont wear either pair out before I get to OCS. I’m gonna buy another pair of boots (non-light) in another month or so…It’s best to go with two pairs and apparently it’s wise to have “Durashock” sole boots?

22

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
dhuge67 wrote:
Roland Fisher wrote:
Nail wrote:
Politico wrote:
Some of you running gurus who definitely seem to know more than me and Dhuge about strategy should definitely write a big post about training, strategy and leg lifting for longer runners!

Training - Long, intervals, hills, tempo, and easy runs. Mix it up, They all help.

Strategy - Spend some time in the trenches. Every runner is different.

Leg lifting - The best way to strengthen your legs is through more running. Lifting is not going to help very much.

Nail has never coached any runners, I know from this post, don’t pay any attention to it.

I lift with my lower body, and I run too, so I’m not about to throw out Squats, Deads or Lunges…

For legs, since you are getting ready for OCS, just go find the largest backpack you can get (Alice pack if you can find one). Fill it with sandbags or weight plates (at lest 40-50lbs), then go walk in the woods for about an hour. Do this on non-cardio days. You’ve got to get your feet and walking muscles in condition. If you don’t already have a pair of combat boots, get some now.

I’ve got some Bates Lights. I’ll alternate those with Nike Free Trail shoes, so I wont wear either pair out before I get to OCS. I’m gonna buy another pair of boots (non-light) in another month or so…It’s best to go with two pairs and apparently it’s wise to have “Durashock” sole boots?

[/quote]

Ask your OSO if you can get a pair of regualtion USMC boots. That was the best thing I did. I wore them non-stop for 3 months prior to OCS. Your feent need to get used to wearing boots, not running shoes. If you can’t get regulation boots, go to a military surplus store and get some old-style combat boots. Trust me, you need to toughen up your feet.

As for legs, squats won’t help on a 20-mile hump. Go find some mountains, get a heavy-ass backpack, combat boots and start walking uphill briskly. Go outside and walk as fast as you can. THAT’S how fast you will hump in OCS, but with a heavy pack.

Bates Lights are not authorized. Nike Free’s will be useless. 95% of the running you do will be through the woods, wearing boots. For running shoes, go get some heavy-duty New Balance. They will take a beating.

23

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Add sprints. HIIT. High Intensity Interval Training. Alternate periods of flat-out sprinting with slower paced active recovery. Do 20-25 minutes of this.

Jog slowly for about 2-3 minutes.
Moderate pace for 2 minutes
Sprint 1 minute
Moderate pace for 2 minutes
Sprint 1 minute
and so on…

Running longer distances WILL NOT increase your speed. In order to increase your speed, you have to run faster, not longer. I knocked 2 minutes off my PFT score doing HIIT cardio for 3 months. Never ran more than 20 minutes , never farther than 2.4 miles on a treadmill. Sprinting works. [/quote]

if you would have read my post I’ve already elaborated on fartleck type runs which are the same things as HIIT.

Your right Running long distances will not increase your speed but WILL INCREASE YOUR ENDURANCE. The thing is a 3 mile race IS NOT A SPEED RACE. ITS AND ENDURANCE RACE. yES I KNOW SPEED PLAYS A ROLE IN 3 MILE RACE BUT IT COMES DOWN TO WHO CAN HOLD THEIR TOP SPEED THE LONGEST (ENDURANCE)

also do not neglect the long run if you are training for anything 3 miles and above. Running a weekly long run has a huge amount of benefits for your cardiovascular system vo2 max and everything.

24

[quote]PGJ wrote:
dhuge67 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
dhuge67 wrote:
Roland Fisher wrote:
Nail wrote:
Politico wrote:
Some of you running gurus who definitely seem to know more than me and Dhuge about strategy should definitely write a big post about training, strategy and leg lifting for longer runners!

Training - Long, intervals, hills, tempo, and easy runs. Mix it up, They all help.

Strategy - Spend some time in the trenches. Every runner is different.

Leg lifting - The best way to strengthen your legs is through more running. Lifting is not going to help very much.

Nail has never coached any runners, I know from this post, don’t pay any attention to it.

I lift with my lower body, and I run too, so I’m not about to throw out Squats, Deads or Lunges…

For legs, since you are getting ready for OCS, just go find the largest backpack you can get (Alice pack if you can find one). Fill it with sandbags or weight plates (at lest 40-50lbs), then go walk in the woods for about an hour. Do this on non-cardio days. You’ve got to get your feet and walking muscles in condition. If you don’t already have a pair of combat boots, get some now.

I’ve got some Bates Lights. I’ll alternate those with Nike Free Trail shoes, so I wont wear either pair out before I get to OCS. I’m gonna buy another pair of boots (non-light) in another month or so…It’s best to go with two pairs and apparently it’s wise to have “Durashock” sole boots?

Ask your OSO if you can get a pair of regualtion USMC boots. That was the best thing I did. I wore them non-stop for 3 months prior to OCS. Your feent need to get used to wearing boots, not running shoes. If you can’t get regulation boots, go to a military surplus store and get some old-style combat boots. Trust me, you need to toughen up your feet.

As for legs, squats won’t help on a 20-mile hump. Go find some mountains, get a heavy-ass backpack, combat boots and start walking uphill briskly. Go outside and walk as fast as you can. THAT’S how fast you will hump in OCS, but with a heavy pack.

Bates Lights are not authorized. Nike Free’s will be useless. 95% of the running you do will be through the woods, wearing boots. For running shoes, go get some heavy-duty New Balance. They will take a beating.

[/quote]I got my boots from Quanticoboot.com

I’ll begin doing “humps” this week. It’s spring break and I live right near a huge trail and mountain…

25

[quote]Nail wrote:
Politico wrote:
Some of you running gurus who definitely seem to know more than me and Dhuge about strategy should definitely write a big post about training, strategy and leg lifting for longer runners!

Training - Long, intervals, hills, tempo, and easy runs. Mix it up, They all help.

Strategy - Spend some time in the trenches. Every runner is different.

Leg lifting - The best way to strengthen your legs is through more running. Lifting is not going to help very much.[/quote]

I disagree with this. I stopped jogging due to the winter time and have only been doing leg workouts. Squats, lunges, and the such. The other day I was running and I noticed I havnt lost my ability at all to run. Despite the fact I havnt done so in months and smoke on occasion. I have also gained a noticable amount of speed. This might be due to lost fat or increased muscle in my legs. Hell probably both.

I think I know what you are saying though. The best way to get good at something is to do it.

26

[quote]DanErickson wrote:
Nail wrote:
Politico wrote:
Some of you running gurus who definitely seem to know more than me and Dhuge about strategy should definitely write a big post about training, strategy and leg lifting for longer runners!

Training - Long, intervals, hills, tempo, and easy runs. Mix it up, They all help.

Strategy - Spend some time in the trenches. Every runner is different.

Leg lifting - The best way to strengthen your legs is through more running. Lifting is not going to help very much.

I disagree with this. I stopped jogging due to the winter time and have only been doing leg workouts. Squats, lunges, and the such. The other day I was running and I noticed I havnt lost my ability at all to run. Despite the fact I havnt done so in months and smoke on occasion. I have also gained a noticable amount of speed. This might be due to lost fat or increased muscle in my legs. Hell probably both.

I think I know what you are saying though. The best way to get good at something is to do it.
[/quote]

Well I do do it, 4-5 times a week. Sometimes I’m running so much that when I go to test my 3-mile pace, I’m terrible, because I’m burnt out…

My plan for this week is this:

Monday - 7 mile run (8:10 pace)

Tuesday - 20 minute run: 2 min jog, 2 min accelerated, and 1 minute sprints and repeat for 20 minutes.

Wednesday - 1 hour 40 lb pack hump.

Thursday - 4 mile run: 1 mile slow, 1 fast, 1 slow, 1 fast

Friday - off

Saturday - 3 mile timed run

27

Bates Lites, back when they WERE authorized, were considered “office boots”. Meaning they were no good in the field. You should be able to get a pair of real brown USMC boots. Get some (they will have the Eagle, Globe and Anchor stamped on the side). That is what you will wear everyday in the Marines, not Bates.

The normal routine on a hump is 50 minutes at a fast pace, then rest for 10 minutes, then repeat. Drink water constantly and change your socks every break, even if they aren’t wet. You will be much better prepared than I was for OCS.

28

I stand corrected, Bates are authorized. I have never seen them in brown. Keep them clean and use them for inspection purposes, as they will definately fall apart in the field. Seriously, every candidate who bought the old-style black Bates and used them at OCS and TBS when I went through had to get new boots after about a month. They are designed to be comfortable running and office boots.

29

I stand corrected, Bates are authorized. I have never seen them in brown. Keep them clean and use them for inspection purposes, as they will definately fall apart in the field. Seriously, every candidate who bought the old-style black Bates and used them at OCS and TBS when I went through had to get new boots after about a month. They are designed to be comfortable running and office boots. One of the best things my OSO did was allow me to go to the exchange and buy a pair of old black combat boots and wear them around for a couple of months before OCS. I still have them 14 years later. Fit my feet like a glove.

30

The distance runner in me says, "a 5k guy in track (3.1 miles) needs to run anywhere from 35 to 110 miles+ a week to maximize performance. Again, there are the people that run better 5ks (not elites) off of like 20 miles a week.

I’d say, to spare muscle, your best bet is to do a couple workouts with 400’s or 800’s in repeat fashion coupled with some regular runs of 4 miles maybe at a decent pace. The week or two before your race, just make the workouts shorter and faster and do less miles (maybe 2 the day before the test day). You can also manage a pretty damn good 5k off of this.

31

What I said about leg lifting for runners is being completely misunderstood. I should have elaborated further.

I meant that it is not that important in the context of a 3 mile or 5k run. Leg strength and power DO play a a greater role as the distance decreases, as in the case of a 100m sprint. There is a huge difference in training methods from a 100m race and a race that is 50x as long. Beginner runners CAN see an increase in leg speed due to increased neural efficiency, since they are able to apply more force to the ground with each stride. But, there will come a time when the returns on leg training will diminish, and the only thing that will help your speed is through more running activities. That is what I meant when I said that leg training (in a traditional sense) is not that important.

Also, it has been stated above that distance running will not improve your speed, only your endurance. Applying the same concept as above, speed CAN be increased through distance running alone during the early stages of somebody’s running career. During long runs your body adapts to a more efficient stride in order to minimize energy expenditure and fatigue. A more efficient stride equals faster speed. Period. But, as stated before, there is a point of diminishing returns where your speed will not be improved soley through distance running, and you will need more speed work to increase your speed.

I do understand that people will continue squatting, deadlifting, whatever and still run; there is nothing wrong with that. This is a bodybuilding forum. Though it is foolish to think that powerlifting is the key to great running performances.

32

[quote]Serd wrote:
PGJ wrote:

Your right Running long distances will not increase your speed but WILL INCREASE YOUR ENDURANCE. The thing is a 3 mile race IS NOT A SPEED RACE. ITS AND ENDURANCE RACE. yES I KNOW SPEED PLAYS A ROLE IN 3 MILE RACE BUT IT COMES DOWN TO WHO CAN HOLD THEIR TOP SPEED THE LONGEST (ENDURANCE)

[/quote]
That statement is nonsense. “…who can hold their top sped the longest???” In a 3 mile run, my guess is that most of the people that finish the race ran at or about 3 miles. My second guess is that the one that did it the fastest is called the winner. That makes it a race.

33

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Serd wrote:
PGJ wrote:

Your right Running long distances will not increase your speed but WILL INCREASE YOUR ENDURANCE. The thing is a 3 mile race IS NOT A SPEED RACE. ITS AND ENDURANCE RACE. yES I KNOW SPEED PLAYS A ROLE IN 3 MILE RACE BUT IT COMES DOWN TO WHO CAN HOLD THEIR TOP SPEED THE LONGEST (ENDURANCE)

That statement is nonsense. “…who can hold their top sped the longest???” In a 3 mile run, my guess is that most of the people that finish the race ran at or about 3 miles. My second guess is that the one that did it the fastest is called the winner. That makes it a race. [/quote]

That statement makes complete sense. Of course your not going to hold your “top” speed but the fastest speed you can for the length of the race.ie speed endurance. I really dont know what your talking about in your next two sentences, but have you ever ran a race? I’ve run races at distances 1miles through 10 miles… The tinman,like myself kind of know what we are talking about.

34

[quote]PGJ wrote:

I got my boots from Quanticoboot.com

I’ll begin doing “humps” this week. It’s spring break and I live right near a huge trail and mountain…

Bates Lites, back when they WERE authorized, were considered “office boots”. Meaning they were no good in the field. You should be able to get a pair of real brown USMC boots. Get some (they will have the Eagle, Globe and Anchor stamped on the side). That is what you will wear everyday in the Marines, not Bates.

The normal routine on a hump is 50 minutes at a fast pace, then rest for 10 minutes, then repeat. Drink water constantly and change your socks every break, even if they aren’t wet. You will be much better prepared than I was for OCS.

[/quote]
My Bates do have the EGA. I was told to get a pair of Lights for certain days at OCS.

35

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
PGJ wrote:

I got my boots from Quanticoboot.com

I’ll begin doing “humps” this week. It’s spring break and I live right near a huge trail and mountain…

Bates Lites, back when they WERE authorized, were considered “office boots”. Meaning they were no good in the field. You should be able to get a pair of real brown USMC boots. Get some (they will have the Eagle, Globe and Anchor stamped on the side). That is what you will wear everyday in the Marines, not Bates.

The normal routine on a hump is 50 minutes at a fast pace, then rest for 10 minutes, then repeat. Drink water constantly and change your socks every break, even if they aren’t wet. You will be much better prepared than I was for OCS.

My Bates do have the EGA. I was told to get a pair of Lights for certain days at OCS.
[/quote]

Those will be good for running events like the 8-mile endurance course and the obstical course. Just don’t use them for regular field use. I did not realize until I checked that web site that Bates were authorized.

Some more advise: swim. The swimming qualifications F-people up at TBS. You will swim in full gear with pack and rifle. You will swim with that AND your buddies gear while dragging him across the pool. While doing this, a Drill Instructor my just come up behind you and drag you to the bottom. If you have ANY fear of water, start working on it.

Land navigation - learn how to work a compass. The OCS/TBS land navigation curriculum is world-class. This messed up a lot of guys as well.

Rope climbing. Learn to climb a rope without using your feet. If you can do that before getting to OCS, you will be way ahead of the game.

These are things you can work on now.

36

Thanks for the tips…

BTW, the endurance course is only 3.5 miles.

I ran 5 miles today, when I had planned on 7. I felt lethargic and my usual 3-mile pace (which I wanted to run for the first 3 miles) just wasn’t there. I’m tired right now…need a day off. I’m just glad that I did get 5 miles into my legs though…

37

Not sure what your time commitment is to running and what else you have to train for, but interval workouts are for sure the way to go. If you’ve got months until the test, then you can build up a good base now for a couple weeks with long (45-60 min) runs as fast as you can, but if your test is sooner than a couple of months, I would recommend getting straight to the interval work. Here’s some abbreviated workouts from our national champ high school cross country team (abbreviated because I don’t think you need to or are going to be training specifically for running)

Warm up should be a nice tempo 1 or 2 mile run, dynamic stretching, followed by 4x100 m sprints at around 80% speed, not all out sprints. Do one of the following workouts.

Wkout 1
12 x 400 m with a 1 minute interval, time it. I’d guess that you’ll be doing these in around 80-85 sec when you’re in the shape you want, but whatever it is, it should be hard to do.

Wkout 2
5 x 800 m with a 3 minute interval. 2:45 maybe when you’re where you want to be

Wkout 3
3 x 1 mile 5 min interval I hate mile repeats with a passion, but there’s nothing that will get you in better shape for the 5k

Cooldown
4 x 100 m around 85%
1 mile jog plus dynamic stretching

Switch in a 4 or 5 mile hard run every now and then to remind yourself what it’s like to run continuously for that amount of time.

Hope that helps.

38

How does this fuckin’ workout sound? I did the following today:

11:30 AM - 5 mile run

5:30 PM - Bodyweight pull ups
1 set max chins
1 set max pull ups
1 set max neutral grip
1 set assisted high rep pull ups ~25
Repeat 3 times

Rest 60 seconds

30 push ups
Supported rows with 2-45lb plates for max reps
30 push ups different “grip”
Rows for max reps
Rest 60 seconds and repeat 2 more times

6-30 yard sprints followed immediately by 5 dumbbell snatches with each hand

Sprinted 1 mile, followed by dumbbell snatches

Sprint a 400 followed by dumbbell snatches (repeat 3 more times)

Total: 2 miles and 55 snatches with each arm (110 total)
Workout total time: ~40-45 minutes

Running total for the day: 7 miles and 6 30-yard sprints

I looked sweaty by the end of this…

Edit: I took 2 remaining Spike tablets prior to this routine. 4 Biotest BCAAs immediately post workout, 1 scoop of Grow! and a Banana.

Also interesting to me was that my morning 5-mile run felt awful. My feet and shins hurt. I was wearing my heavy and cushioned Saucony Omni 6 running shoes. Before I went for my second go 'round, UPS dropped off my Nike Free 5.0 v2 shoes. Since I’m used to wearing the Nike Free 7.0 to lift, I put them on and wore them to the gym for my second workout. I was able to run much faster and my feet didn’t hurt. I swear to God that it is the shoes that make the difference in how I am able to perform. The clunkier, cushioned “running” shoes are good at protecting the balls of my feet from getting torn up, but they hurt my speed and the area of my high ankle (just behind the shoe laces). The Nike Free 5.0s just feel so much better, but I can’t use them for prolonged mileage at one time, or I risk tearing up the balls of my feet…

I might try the Free Trail shoes next, to see if the added cushioning will make them my ultimate shoe…

39

Re: the shoes

You might have your shoes laced incorrectly (i.e. too high or tight) if your foot is hurting you there. Also, after running for the past 6 years (up to high 70’s/wk), I finally made the effort to ditch the clunky heavy cushioned shoes for some lightweight racing flats which are basically the same concept as the frees. I believe if you transition slowly (either 2 miles each day or alternating days of 4 miles) you will build up your lower leg/foot strength and not be plagued with some problem. The key is to adapt your gait cycle as to land more on your forefoot than jamming the heel into the ground.

After your 5 mile run, I’d just throw in 4 to 6 100 meter light sprints, almost buildups. This will give you that quicker turnover after running a decent distance.

Good luck with endurance course.

40

[quote]itsthetimman wrote:
Re: the shoes

You might have your shoes laced incorrectly (i.e. too high or tight) if your foot is hurting you there. Also, after running for the past 6 years (up to high 70’s/wk), I finally made the effort to ditch the clunky heavy cushioned shoes for some lightweight racing flats which are basically the same concept as the frees. I believe if you transition slowly (either 2 miles each day or alternating days of 4 miles) you will build up your lower leg/foot strength and not be plagued with some problem. The key is to adapt your gait cycle as to land more on your forefoot than jamming the heel into the ground.

After your 5 mile run, I’d just throw in 4 to 6 100 meter light sprints, almost buildups. This will give you that quicker turnover after running a decent distance.

Good luck with endurance course.[/quote]

Thanks for the tips. I land more on the front of my feet, to maybe as far back as the mid-foot, but I’m not a heel striker. My stride has my feet coming down on the mid-front to the balls of my feet, hence the callus issue that I get, right behind my two biggest toes.

Tomorrow, a 7 mile hump through the woods, with a 50lb pack.

http://www4.esm.psu.edu/ames/davids_vista_8-31-02/images/Untitled-3.jpg

(that’s not me in the pic)