28, Low Sex Drive & Motivation

Pharma / TRT Testosterone Replacement
1

Hey Guys,

Ive read the stickies on advice for new guys, thyroid basics and protocols for injections… amazing info and I now have labs in and would love your guys opinion

-age: 28
-height 6ft
-waist 32in
-weight 195 (varies based on time of year
-describe body and facial hair: Hairy from head to toe. full beard
-describe where you carry fat and how changed. stomach and hips/low back
-health conditions, symptoms [history] anxiety/depression/fatigue
-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs none

-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets]: cyclical based on year but currently bulking. 3,800 calories, 220g protein, 80g fat, 450g carbs
-describe training. 5 day split, back/chest/off/legs/shoulders/arms/off. 4 sets per exercise. decline reps inclining weight. 15reps/10reps/8reps/6reps
-testes ache, ever, with a fever? no
-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed: inconsistent. nocturnal erections more frequent than morning wood (upon waking in the nigh from a dream, erection is present)

quickly to describe my situation before I post labs.I have been feeling poorly for over a year. I have a range of symptoms, anxiety and depression (not sad but loss of interest, no passion or lust for life and no motivation). Sex drive is poor with reduced erection size and fullness, I am constantly fatigued accompanied by some achy muscles. im forgetful and cloudy minded. worst of all, I have a general feeling of poor well being… I carry it in my mind and body, its tough to describe but I just feel off. I am an avid bber, my physique has suffered. loss of muscle mass and increase to body fat.

Quickly to address my personal life (others have told me they think its the issue which i total disagree). I am beyond fortunate. money, girls, friends and appearance are non issues. personality and intellect have suffered from how I am feeling but still a non issue

through the suggestion of a friend, I went to see a doc who specialized in hormone therapy. it was my buddies belief i had low testosterone (note ive never done any AAS).This doc was the first to observe I had low body temp and had me record it. typically body temp is 96.2 morning and 96.8 late afternoon. We also ordered lab work.

Reviewing the labs with him he told me I was extremely health. My test came in at normal range but “low” in his estimation for my age age and muscularity but nothing overwhelming. (labs below)

it was his suggestion that we try a month of test injections to see if that helps. if it does, consider a long term replacement, if it doesnt, rule out test being the issue.

I ended up leaving with a shot of 150mg of test cyp. after 24 hours, no noticeable effects. im torn if i want to do this “month trial”.

I turn to you guys for guidance. I am overwhelmed and confused, simply, I want to feel better.

Should I do the month long test run?
Should I do the idoine treatment first? can i do them concurrently?
Primary physician suggest SSRI. should that be considered? (afraid of weight gain and loss of libido.

I cant express my appreciation for all the help. I wouldnt wish this on my worst enemy. once I fix all this, I will share my knowledge and help those who are dealing with this.

WBC 5.6 3.4-10.8
RBC 5.52 4.14-5.8
Hemoglobin 16.7 12.6-17.7
Hematocrit 49.6 37.5-51.0
MCV 90 79-97
MCH 30.3 26.6-33.0
MCHC 33.7 31.5-35.7
RDW 13.1 12.3-15.4
Platelets 188 150-379
TSH 2.46 .4-4.5
Glucose 88 65-99

Alkaline Phosphatase 120 39-117 (HIGH)
AST 54 0-40 (HIGH)
ALT 53 0-44 (HIGH)

Total Cholesterol 139 125-200
HDL 49 >40
Triglycerides 78 <150
LDL 74 <130

Bioavailable testost. w/o SHBG 526
Bioavailable Testosterone, S 257
Bioavailable testosterone % 48.8
Testosterone, Free and total 507 348-1197
Free Testosterone 11.3 9.3-26.5
Estradiol 28.6 7.6-42.6
IGF-1

Hemoglobin Alc 5.4 4.8-5.6
DHEA â?? Sulfate 257.4 138.5-475.2
Luteinizing Hormone (LH) 5.3 1.7-8.6
FSH, Serum 2.6 1.5-12.4
Cortisol 16.5 2.3-19.4
Vitamin D 49.8 30-100

2

Those were labs before TRT.

More labs: asap please
TSH=2.46
fT3
fT4 [not T3, T4, need the free hormone levels]
rT3
prolactin

Ive read the stickies on advice for new guys, thyroid basics and protocols for injections

What has been your history of using iodized salt. If not, you are iodine deficient.

The info so far suggests a degree of hypothyroidism. This would explain a lot of how you feel and perhaps low T. The lab ranges for the thyroid hormones lead doctors to overlooking major problems.

Please read the thyroid basics sticky again and note references to iodine, iodized, rT3, stress, over training.

You can do IR now and TRT might have been a bad idea. Would rather see you get back to a good state then be on TRT. Some guys on TRT do not do well if their thyroid compromises there metabolic rate.

“I went to see a doc who specialized in hormone therapy” and he does nothing about your low body temperatures? Did he palpate your thyroid gland or ask about your iodine intake?

What happened before “a year ago”. If you stopped using iodized salt, when was that?

3

[quote]KSman wrote:
Those were labs before TRT.

More labs: asap please
TSH=2.46
fT3
fT4 [not T3, T4, need the free hormone levels]
rT3
prolactin

What has been your history of using iodized salt. If not, you are iodine deficient.

Please read the thyroid basics sticky again and note references to iodine, iodized, rT3, stress, over training.

You can do IR now and TRT might have been a bad idea. Would rather see you get back to a good state then be on TRT. Some guys on TRT do not do well if their thyroid compromises there metabolic rate.

“I went to see a doc who specialized in hormone therapy” and he does nothing about your low body temperatures? Did he palpate your thyroid gland or ask about your iodine intake?

What happened before “a year ago”. If you stopped using iodized salt, when was that?[/quote]

doc ordered more labs for the thyroid. I see him again on monday, I will address this with him (hopefully they were already ordered). he was alarmed with the low body temp and did palpate but no mention of iodine.

Never use or cook with salt. im sure based on that im iodine deficient. iodine along with selenium are in the mail now.

are my levels of T at 507 // 11.3 low enough to start with TRT? Ill do whatever it takes to feel better and if that means TRT, I will but I dont want to commit to that unless its to the benefit of my health.

should i continue with a month long trial run on the T, to see if it address any of my issues?

4

You should try to get your thyroid fixed before TRT.

Your total cholesterol is very low [<=160]. Low cholesterol levels are associated with increased all-cause mortality. Cholesterol is the foundation for all of your testicular and adrenal hormones as well as vit-D3 that you produce from sun exposed skin.

Do you eat red meat?

Say no to SSRI’s

5

[quote]KSman wrote:
You should try to get your thyroid fixed before TRT.

Your total cholesterol is very low [<=160]. Low cholesterol levels are associated with increased all-cause mortality. Cholesterol is the foundation for all of your testicular and adrenal hormones as well as vit-D3 that you produce from sun exposed skin.

Do you eat red meat?

Say no to SSRI’s[/quote]

cholesterol has improved dramatically, used to be 97. I eat red meat 4-5x times a week. my PCP is aware and was before the increase was thinking about a bile thickener. Should I be eating more red meat?

With my thyroid, there is no doubt my body temp is low (96.2 in am). What doesnt make sense is im not fat. my bf in winter is around 12-13%. is it possible to be hypo while still being lean?

Now, I got a shot of 150mg of cyp on monday. Wednesday I felt the best I have in months. Thursday, today, I still feel pretty darn good. over the past 2 days after 7 hours of sleep I am wake up fully rested. whats interesting is upon waking Wed. body temp was 96.6 (.4 improvement). Thursday body temp was 97.2!! This is without the iodine and selenium (arriving today). 0 improvement to libido or erection quality though.

I understand cyp is a slow ester. Is there a chance the improvement to body temp and well being is from just one shot? or is it just a coincidence/placebo?

KSman, I really cant thank you enough for assisting me in dealing with this. you a re a resource and everyone here appreciates your help my man.

6

Lab Results are in:

T4,Free(Direct): 1.63 ng/dL RANGE: 0.82-1.77 N
Reverse T3, Serum: 22.4 ng/dL RANGE: 9.2-24.1 N
Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum: 3.0 pg/mL RANGE: 2.0-4.4 N
Triiodothyronine (T3): 88 ng/dL RANGE 71-180 N
TSH 2.250 uIU/mL RANGE 0.450-4.500

Everything is in range. T3 on the lower side of normal and reverse T3 along with T4 on the higher side of normal.

I have been taking Iodine for 7 days. currently taking 37.5mg, at 50 mgs I had some strong strange smelling body odor. At 37.5 I have been waking up with a strange taste in my mouth, nothing I have tasted before. It doesnt taste metallic though. I an my I am still lethargic, my temperature hasnt improved from the iodine.

Has anyone tried T3 to improve their body temperature? Dr. Wilson, most known for his adrenal fatigue research also has a method to improve body temperature for individuals whose labs come up as euthyroid. apparently it uses sustained release T3 to improve body temperature and thyroid function

7

Your observations with IR suggest that you might be flushing bromines out of your system. Have you at times consumed citrus flavored beverages that contain bromated vegetable oil? Exposure to flame retardants? Suggest higher iodine dose to force bromines out. Someone else here had this issue, smelled fishy. Displacing bromines can make one feel unwell for a time.

Your fT3 is a bit below midrange. However your rT3 is high enough to be blocking fT3 to some degree. Your body temperatures reflect this.

TSH too high.
T3, fT3, T4, fT4 better mid-range or a bit higher.
Forget being in-range.

You do not want to take thyroid meds now. Wait and see. But if you do thyroid meds, T4 may simply lead to more rT3.

150mg T/week is too high. Your HTC may be a problem, even at 100mg/week

TRT may lower your cholesterol, so test that as well.

8

[quote]KSman wrote:
Your observations with IR suggest that you might be flushing bromines out of your system. Have you at times consumed citrus flavored beverages that contain bromated vegetable oil? Exposure to flame retardants? Suggest higher iodine dose to force bromines out. Someone else here had this issue, smelled fishy. Displacing bromines can make one feel unwell for a time.

Your fT3 is a bit below midrange. However your rT3 is high enough to be blocking fT3 to some degree. Your body temperatures reflect this.

TSH too high.
T3, fT3, T4, fT4 better mid-range or a bit higher.
Forget being in-range.

You do not want to take thyroid meds now. Wait and see. But if you do thyroid meds, T4 may simply lead to more rT3.

150mg T/week is too high. Your HTC may be a problem, even at 100mg/week

TRT may lower your cholesterol, so test that as well.

Child through young adulthood playing sports I consumed sports drink regularly, lemon flavored though not orange. until a few years ago i would drink 2 liters of all different types of diet soda. citrus and diet coke being my go to. Im not sure how long bromide stays in your system but ive worked back up to 50mgs.

[/quote]

So, would your suggestion be to continue with the IR for the thyroid? low body temperature is serious that is often over looked and I would like to remedy the issue but the only information have found is about a slow release T3. (its scary how uniformed docs are, im blown away)

im not familar with HTC. Does HTC = HPTA?

I have a doc in 3 weeks, what course of action should I take? Sounds like after 1 month of the test, might be time to reduce the dose. will get done typical lab work and add HCG along with aromasin if needed. also wanted to get SBHG and prolactin tested.

the test has made me feel better but there is a lot left to be desired. the whole process is overwhelming. I appreciate the help big dog.

9

Your total T was over 500 and you still went on TRT. You are absolutely a fool. Your probably depressed and anxious because of psychological reasons, neurotransmitters and such. Why every insecure meathead thinks TRT will eliminate anxiety and depression I have no idea. NO STUDIES have been done to treat anxiety and depression with testosterone injections.

Especially when you aren’t even low. Medium low is under 400, under 300 is low. You were at 500, correct me if im wrong, which seems fine. Stop taking drugs for problems that don’t exist. You do not have low T you are just depressed and need to address that before you go on shooting steroids for no fucking reason at all. How your doctor even came to the conclusion that T injections would benefit you is beyond my understanding. Find a shrink instead. Maybe go on PRP? Prozac replacement therapy?

10

[quote]bpbob wrote:
Your total T was over 500 and you still went on TRT. You are absolutely a fool. Your probably depressed and anxious because of psychological reasons, neurotransmitters and such. Why every insecure meathead thinks TRT will eliminate anxiety and depression I have no idea. NO STUDIES have been done to treat anxiety and depression with testosterone injections.

Especially when you aren’t even low. Medium low is under 400, under 300 is low. You were at 500, correct me if im wrong, which seems fine. Stop taking drugs for problems that don’t exist. You do not have low T you are just depressed and need to address that before you go on shooting steroids for no fucking reason at all. How your doctor even came to the conclusion that T injections would benefit you is beyond my understanding. Find a shrink instead. Maybe go on PRP? Prozac replacement therapy? [/quote]

Why you so hot and bothered bro, I came here after my doc suggested the test. I asked about ssris.

I appreciate your opinion on not doing trt but to call me meathead fool shooting steroids is useless.

The whole point of me asking opinions is to feel better, I have no psychological issues, im a super fortunate person. There is something psychological, is hoping I would not have to take ssris

11

after some consideration I decided to stop the TRT. After suggestions from you guys and doing more research on TRT, I dont think my natural T was low enough and I dont know enough about TRT, it appears you have to self navigate as doctors simply just dont know. Not to mention, it didnt cure me.

With that being said, im curious to know if I should pct. for 3 weeks I took one shot of test cyp @ 150mg. all in all i took 3 total shots equating to 450mg total. is that enough to shut me down and warrant a pct?

12

[quote]xplicid01 wrote:
after some consideration I decided to stop the TRT. After suggestions from you guys and doing more research on TRT, I dont think my natural T was low enough and I dont know enough about TRT, it appears you have to self navigate as doctors simply just dont know. Not to mention, it didnt cure me.

With that being said, im curious to know if I should pct. for 3 weeks I took one shot of test cyp @ 150mg. all in all i took 3 total shots equating to 450mg total. is that enough to shut me down and warrant a pct?[/quote]

You should be fine without a PCT. Just give yourself a weeks to level out.

13

Going back to the doctor, going to request a saliva cortisol test (as a CA resident I can’t do it without).

Also going to get a full set of blood work done.

Is there anything I should request to be checked specifically?